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Blazing Ownager posted:
You have trouble understanding Lex Luther because you're taking everything he says literally. Throughout the whole film, he plays around with language to amuse himself. Lex is being ironic when he calls Superman a god. That's his whole shtick, hence the jar of piss. He also calls Superman a flying demon and his mother a witch so he's going to execute her by fire via flamethrower. He's the postmodern boss; pretends to be your friend on the surface level while you both know he has all of the power, hence the jolly rancher scene. KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 05:39
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Jimbot posted:You can't get more obvious than that. The rest of the film explores them. Honestly, I applaud you folk putting effort into this discussion but this exact type of person comes around every now and then and regurgitates the same tired old poo poo and no amount of thesis-level effort posts will explain things to them because they're doing this in bad faith. They don't actually give a poo poo. Oh, I give a poo poo. If you have some way to explain why he did any specific action he did outside of the press release reply of "his daddy beat him and he doesn't like God," I will be impressed, given half his actions seem completely opposed to his stated motivation.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:40
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Blazing Ownager posted:If you think there's any logical way to explain Muholland Drive you're an idiot. It was designed to not actually ever fit together on purpose. A lot of it was not literal but people sure do want to try. Homie you're befuddled by the plot of a comic book movie and you're calling other people idiots, I think it's time to consider what has led you down this path (you're stupid) Duey posted:Saw JL tonight and Jesus, what a mess. Especially when compared to Thor: Ragnarok which came out only a week or 2 earlier. Say what you want about Marvel movies in general but Ragnarok at least tried something different and interesting. Wht about it did you think was interesting/novel? I'm asking seriously I haven't seen it
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Nov 20, 2017 05:41
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Blazing Ownager posted:Go ahead, please see my earlier post. I want to know why Luthor did any of those things other than you reading whatever press release synopsis WB poo poo out as to why he did anything he did. It's already been addressed many many times here. But no, I should defer to the mouth breathing simp that think David Lynch is the torch bearer of incomprehensible cinema.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:41
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KVeezy3 posted:You have trouble understanding Lex Luther because you're taking everything he says literally. Throughout the whole film, he plays around with language to amuse himself. Lex is being ironic when he calls Superman a god. That's his whole shtick, hence the jar of piss. He also calls Superman a flying demon and his mother a witch so he's going to execute her by fire via flamethrower. So then, if his hate of alien Gods isn't the problem what was his motivation? Destroy the world with an unstoppable clone monster, for reasons? Did they just want to rip off the Joker and he has no plan? (Well, less plan than the Joker, actually)? Why. The gently caress. Was he doing. Anything.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:42
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The Joker had a plan. He is lying when he says he doesn't have a plan. His plan is extremely elaborate, and he is fixated on it to the point of distraction
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Nov 20, 2017 05:43
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Blazing Ownager posted:So then, if his hate of alien Gods isn't the problem what was his motivation? Just gonna repost from last page: Mechafunkzilla posted:An abused child hating himself and feeling destructive towards a world that feels unsafe isn't some new, incomprehensible idea. Here's Sandor Ferenczi writing about it in 1929.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:43
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sponges posted:But no, I should defer to the mouth breathing simp that think David Lynch is the torch bearer of incomprehensible cinema. I didn't say it was incomprehensible. I'm saying that he designs films SPECIFICALLY so they cannot be solved, and none of the details will ever match up, but it doesn't stop up their rear end fuckwads like you from thinking they solved the puzzle box, when the puzzle box was just a disguise. He's even said it himself dozens of times, there are things that are NOT suppose to make sense, not literally, but anyone who considers themselves a "Superior Film Watcher" (aka mockable rear end in a top hat on the internet) tends to think they figured out all the hidden meanings and "solved the clues." That the director, again, himself has called bullshit. So yeah, Lynch is a gold standard for something, and that's for exposing douches who think they figured out all his movies with a  when they literally cannot be entirely solved by design.Keep in mind, Mr. High Art, you're in here defending a movie that at best has been called a hot mess, and generally slammed by the public, audiences, and critics alike. Most would consider anyone defending BvsS the true mouth breathing simp and you know what? I absolutely agree.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:44
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Just gonna repost from last page: ahahahah. Do you people actually think Zack Snyder was thinking of realistic childhood mental illnesses when he wanted Lex Luthor this way? Oh my loving God my sides hurt. This was bullshit half-assed motivation for a bullshit half-assed character and pretty much the entire universe outside of this apparently super-special little forum agrees on that point. ED: He also does not act REMOTELY consistent with that condition. Wanting the devil to exist is different than building one and then calling up a dozen more on the phone.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:47
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Blazing Ownager posted:I didn't say it was incomprehensible. I'm saying that he designs films SPECIFICALLY so they cannot be solved, and none of the details will ever match up, but it doesn't stop up their rear end fuckwads like you from thinking they solved the puzzle box, when the puzzle box was just a disguise. He's even said it himself dozens of times, there are things that are NOT suppose to make sense, not literally, but anyone who considers themselves a "Superior Film Watcher" (aka mockable rear end in a top hat on the internet) tends to think they figured out all the hidden meanings and "solved the clues." That the director, again, himself has called bullshit. Lynch's films being comprehensible has nothing to do with "solving" anything. Even the fact that you think they're being made specifically to be "unsolvable" is hilarious, as if the way people read film is a duality between "solving" and "not-solving".
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Nov 20, 2017 05:48
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Lynch's films being comprehensible has nothing to do with "solving" anything. Even the fact that you think they're being made specifically to be "unsolvable" is hilarious, as if the way people read film is a duality between "solving" and "not-solving". Tell that to Lynch, I'm pretty much just saying what he himself has claimed on interviews. That said BvsS is still a lovely movie hated by the public and critics alike with a lovely villain that made no sense no matter how many childhood mental disorders you try to rope in it's defense. At least the whole DC EU will probably die after Wonder Woman 2 at this point.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:51
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Blazing Ownager posted:If you think there's any logical way to explain Muholland Drive you're an idiot. It was designed to not actually ever fit together on purpose. A lot of it was not literal but people sure do want to try. ? A woman from a small town moves to Hollywood expecting to make it big, but instead she works as a waitress on the side as she acts a small role in a film. Her girlfriend cheats on her with the director of the film, so she puts a hit out on the girlfriend. We see her fantasy version of how she wishes things would turn out instead: In it the hitman she hired is incompetent and her girlfriend gets amnesia instead of being killed, allowing a fresh start for their romance. Meanwhile, the director's life is ruined. But reality intrudes on the fantasy and when she get's confirmation that her girlfriend has been killed she commit suicide from the guilt. Blazing Ownager posted:I didn't say it was incomprehensible. I'm saying that he designs films SPECIFICALLY so they cannot be solved, and none of the details will ever match up, but it doesn't stop up their rear end fuckwads like you from thinking they solved the puzzle box, when the puzzle box was just a disguise. He's even said it himself dozens of times, there are things that are NOT suppose to make sense, not literally, but anyone who considers themselves a "Superior Film Watcher" (aka mockable rear end in a top hat on the internet) tends to think they figured out all the hidden meanings and "solved the clues." That the director, again, himself has called bullshit. Lynch never says his movies have no meaning or explanation, its really the opposite. He often talks about having very specific ideas for what he wants and pursuing them without letting other concerns or distractions get in the way. He even wrote a book about that called Catching the Big Fish, the fish being a metaphor for the core inspiring ideas he builds a story around. What he does believe in is refusing to explain the intended meaning/explanation of his work in interviews. This is because he wants people to experience, interpret, and appreciate his movies and not his interviews. Interviews are not the medium he works in, so that's not what he wants his audience to focus on. Blazing Ownager posted:Tell that to Lynch, I'm pretty much just saying what he himself has claimed on interviews. Which?
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Nov 20, 2017 05:51
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Any explanation of Lex's motivations does have to grapple with the suicidal undercurrent of him manufacturing the devil. The movie does explain it, that the exposure to the otherworldly knowledge of the scout ship has driven him a little nuts: there isn't just this one god he can maybe kill, but a universe populated by apocalyptic horrors. You get some perspective on this with his growing instability after he gets access to the scout ship (see, his rambling speech at the benefit), but you only really see it straight-on in the communion scene and his ranting in jail at the end. So when he leans into Doomsday's punch it isn't necessarily immediately obvious why. This, of course, ties into his abuse as a child, as he's prepped to believe the world is an evil place. This ties into his suspicions of Superman, but only really gets unleashed when he learns that Superman is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:54
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Blazing Ownager posted:ahahahah. Do you people actually think Zack Snyder was thinking of realistic childhood mental illnesses when he wanted Lex Luthor this way? Oh my loving God my sides hurt. Uh, what? Wanting the devil to exist seems pretty consistent with building the devil or calling the devil. Extremely so. You're not really engaging with my point other than saying "no that's bullshit and Snyder's too dumb", so I don't know what you want from me. I mean, the Lex character spells all of this out in his monologue on top of the building.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:54
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Blazing Ownager posted:ahahahah. Do you people actually think Zack Snyder was thinking of realistic childhood mental illnesses when he wanted Lex Luthor this way? Oh my loving God my sides hurt. What the gently caress is up with the weird intense antagonism dude
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Nov 20, 2017 05:57
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Well, 1. Movies aren't puzzles meant to be "solved" 2. Lex Luthor never shuts up about his motivations. I do however enjoy the bizarre implication that Lynch makes incomplete movies so that no one can ever know what they mean.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:57
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You are dumb as gently caress Blazing Ownager
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Nov 20, 2017 05:57
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Mechafunkzilla posted:You're not really engaging with my point other than saying "no that's bullshit and Snyder's too dumb", so I don't know what you want from me. I mean, the Lex character spells all of this out in his monologue on top of the building. In such a lazy way it's like saying "Why did you kill all those people, crazy man?" "Because my mom didn't like me + I'm CRAZZY" ... and then using it to cover for the most random loving plan/actions ever. Also Batman seems to know everything about everyone second only to Lex knowing everything about everyone so I assume he's still the best detective guy.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:58
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sponges posted:You are dumb as gently caress Blazing Ownager At least it's not tattooed across the head of my avatar
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Nov 20, 2017 05:59
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I will admit all the talk of the film makes me want to see it again. Going to wait until after I see Justice League on Tuesday, though. I don't want to spoil myself by seeing a properly shot film before seeing that patched together mess. Did the DP move on to other projects or something? They could have had him direct the new stuff. Those comparison photos are really embarrassing. Edit: Just want to add to the conversation that, after a writing staff decided to unionize, the billionaire who owned the site decided to close it down, with everything those writers ever worked on disappearing forever.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:59
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wyoming posted:Well, "I get it. A baby is a monster. Brilliant!" - Mel Brooks on Eraserhead
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Nov 20, 2017 06:00
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Blazing Ownager posted:At least it's not tattooed across the head of my avatar Truly a blazing own. Wowza. Scorching. It says dumb in his avatar you guys!
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Nov 20, 2017 06:01
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Blazing Ownager posted:So then, if his hate of alien Gods isn't the problem what was his motivation? Lex wants to save the world. He gave a speech about how he sees himself as Prometheus. Doomsday was him stealing from the gods and giving to the humans. He was willing to take the risk of him being uncontrollable.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:03
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DeimosRising posted:Truly a blazing own. Wowza. Scorching. It says dumb in his avatar you guys! I may have to start cross posting him onto other subforums where at this very moment people are picking on folks like Sponge here and laughing about the kinds of posts that exist in CineD, I just had to see it for myself. His defense of the indefensible is mockable entertainment at it's finest KVeezy3 posted:Lex wants to save the world. He gave a speech about how he sees himself as Prometheus. Doomsday was him stealing from the gods and giving to the humans. He was willing to take the risk of him being uncontrollable. If he had some kind of control or killswitch and then it broke, fine. I'd accept it. But since he NEVER even TRIED to do that.. yeah, no, it was just dumb. Dumb as gently caress. Dumb as turning Doomsday into a CGI endboss Troll.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:04
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Lex is also a great villain because he plays everyone like a fiddle in BvS and manages to kill Superman.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:05
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Blazing Ownager posted:In such a lazy way it's like saying I'd be happy to talk to you about object relations and splitting and collapsed narcissism and attachment theory and all the other ways that people with abuse histories becoming destructive towards themselves and others have been conceptualized over the years. There have been literally thousands of papers written about it. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 06:06
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KVeezy3 posted:Lex wants to save the world. He gave a speech about how he sees himself as Prometheus. Doomsday was him stealing from the gods and giving to the humans. He didn't know he would be uncontrollable. Ironically, he quotes Icarus to Zod's corpse. Hubris, man. God didn't save him from his daddy's fists and abomination but Superman sure did.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:06
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Blazing Ownager posted:
Well yes, he thought he had the knowledge to control him. That's why he made Doomsday from his own blood. The fact that he could not control him and that he created what he feared Superman would end up being is Snyder's rejection of Lex's ideology. His entire life he has had control and power over literally everybody.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:09
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Blazing Ownager posted:I may have to start cross posting him onto other subforums where at this very moment people are picking on folks like Sponge here and laughing about the kinds of posts that exist in CineD, I just had to see it for myself. You are dumb as gently caress. Dumb as thinking David Lynch produced nothing but incomprehensible films. So dumb that you didn't understand a simple film like BvS.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:11
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More like...Blazing Self-Ownager
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Nov 20, 2017 06:11
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I'd be happy to talk to you about object relations and splitting and collapsed narcissism and attachment theory and all the other ways that people with abuse histories becoming destructive towards themselves and others have been conceptualized over the years. There have been literally thousands of papers written about it. 1) That is hilarious bullshit for a badly written character. He is not acting like any sort of real life abuse survivor. Not even a little, tiny, itty bitty bit. I bet those people who wrote those papers would tell anyone suggesting Lex Luthor was a good fictional representation of those conditions they would tell you to gently caress yourself. 2) You do realize we're talking about Lex Luthor in a movie where Batman punches Superman right? Why the gently caress, even if this was a stunningly accurate depiction of mental illness, be in a loving movie about that or given to Lex Luthor? It's stupid as all hell. I'm not against mentally ill superheroes, Legion is pretty good (the show not the movie), but gently caress me even if this was accurate and it is ABSOLUTELY not, it would be the worst choice of all choices to make on a movie like this.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:11
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Blazing Ownager posted:You do realize we're talking about Lex Luthor in a movie where Batman punches Superman right? Why the gently caress, even if this was a stunningly accurate depiction of mental illness, be in a loving movie about that or given to Lex Luthor? It's stupid as all hell. I'm not against mentally ill superheroes, Legion is pretty good (the show not the movie), but gently caress me even if this was accurate and it is ABSOLUTELY not, it would be the worst choice of all choices to make on a movie like this. Why?
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Nov 20, 2017 06:12
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lol at being befuddled by BvS. Holy poo poo. Stick to Avengers.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:13
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Vintersorg posted:lol at being befuddled by BvS. There's a difference between being befuddled or not following something, and following it just fine and realizing it is full of absolutely horse poo poo, leading to stupid conclusions. You can FOLLOW The Happening, it doesn't mean it's not dumb as gently caress.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:15
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Blazing Ownager posted:ahahahah. Do you people actually think Zack Snyder was thinking of realistic childhood mental illnesses when he wanted Lex Luthor this way? Oh my loving God my sides hurt. Yes, Zack and Deborah have elaborated as such in interviews. They're sensitive to the way children are raised to become a reflection of the worst aspects of their upbringing. It's part of the reason Zack has kept such a good relationship with his ex and her husband to the point of casting him in roles. Deborah's gone on record about how their take on Superman in Man of Steel aligns with how Superman's origins are the greatest adoption story told. Building from that, they made Batman and Lex different versions of childhood gone awry. Batman by never having to confront the trauma of his existence because of his privilege and needing a mother figure to force self-realization (seen in both the way Diana toys with Bruce and the whole bloody point of the Martha scene.) Lex's whole thing is daddy issues, finding the universe an evil place because of his abuse at his father's hands, seeing an opportunity to test his hypothesis of the universe on someone who - from Lex's perspective - shouldn't have a father (and makes Clark's mother either a false bearer of divine standard or a witch.) This is stuff they seriously considered, and it's important to incorporate how much influence Deborah has on Zack's direction backed by her own film school experience.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:16
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If "pretentious" movies like Lynch's work are actually meaningless and putting meaning into movies where people punch each other is risible, what movies actually are allowed to be meaningful Blazing Ownager?
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Nov 20, 2017 06:16
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teagone posted:Lex is also a great villain because he plays everyone like a fiddle in BvS and manages to kill Superman. I honestly don't know how people can hate Lex Luthor after the Jolly Rancher scene. Such a fantastic moment. Though really he's great throughout.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:17
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Blazing Ownager posted:1) That is hilarious bullshit for a badly written character. He is not acting like any sort of real life abuse survivor. Not even a little, tiny, itty bitty bit. I bet those people who wrote those papers would tell anyone suggesting Lex Luthor was a good fictional representation of those conditions they would tell you to gently caress yourself. I've worked with a lot of people with abuse histories, even more people with suicidal ideation, and a fair number of people with narcissistic traits. My take is that it's a good character with a plausible and consistent internal life, with some things obviously taken up to 11 because it's a comic book superhero movie. What I'm talking about isn't "a depiction of mental illness", a term which you've misused a few times in the thread. We're really just talking about his personality. I guess we could have a conversation about if he'd meet diagnostic criteria for BPD or NPD or whatever but that's not particularly interesting, to me at least.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:17
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Blazing Ownager posted:There's a difference between being befuddled or not following something, and following it just fine and realizing it is full of absolutely horse poo poo, leading to stupid conclusions. the problem here is that you're under the former.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:18
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The MSJ posted:I like Thor Ragnarok to a point, but I think it's an indication that Marvel really does not know what to do with Thor. What you see in Thor Ragnarok is a lot of ideas coming from the actor and director and Marvel being like "sure, go for it." I believe they said it was Hemsworth who suggested Thor losing his hair and hammer. They let Waititi make make it much more comedic and left all the other things up to him. This was much smarter than keeping with what they were doing, which was semi-successful, but not blowing anyone away. I don't think they get enough credit for what they've done with their later movies in having the directors and actors give input and put their own twist on things.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:22
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