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Charlz Guybon posted:Doesn't he usually want to commit genocide for explicitly blood and soil reasons? How is that not right wing? There are good magnetoes and bad magnetoes. The First Class one is good.
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Nov 20, 2017 14:29
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Davros1 posted:I find it more fascinating that people get so defensive when someone says they didn't like BvS or MoS. I don't even really *like* BvS; it's just that a good part of CineD understands a subjective dislike or "I would have preferred something else here" where the people that run to GBS and complain (people really run to GBS to complain about specific subforums, haha) can't understand why their poorly articulated and thought out "this is objectively bad" gets ripped apart. It's just the difference between knowing how to express yourself and not.
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Nov 20, 2017 14:43
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BiggerBoat posted:Anxiously awaiting the thread's dissertation on how Doctor Doom is a democratic socialist and Galactus is a Ghandi metaphor. Doom isn't democratic but I recall him providing practically every service people in Latveria need for free, and I think in recent comics Galactus underwent a metamorphosis where he became an embodiment of life.
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Nov 20, 2017 14:49
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Charlz Guybon posted:Doesn't he usually want to commit genocide for explicitly blood and soil reasons? How is that not right wing? He's more of a separatist and terrorist, the separatism is more right wing. His belief in the genetic superiority of mutants is the exact same thing Prof. X believes.
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Nov 20, 2017 14:50
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I'll give one tiny example. When reading Blazing's rants, one thing really stood out to me - he stated one reason the movie was bad, and I paraphrase, is that "the world's greatest detective was dumb." There are two glaringly wrong things with the way he's expressing that. The first is that the actual text and dialogue and even visuals tell you that Batman became dumber because of the shock of Metropolis. We are shown visuals of Batman being traumatized by the destruction, destruction that is obviously shot to parallel 9-11 imagery and bring to mind the U.S. paranoid response to 9-11. We have Alfred literally saying that every since then, Batman basically flipped out and has lost it (along with other people alluding to it as well), and we have this happening in the movie. So, even when given a reason for Batman being an idiot, the reason is not accepted. Which could be a fine, personal issue ("I would prefer if his trauma was focused on in a way that made it feel more "real" to me or something") , but presented as BO did, which is basically what you see in Facebook comments in blaming the movie for things that were explained, it becomes a weird non argument that makes no sense. Secondly, nowhere in the movie does it say that Batman is the world's greatest detective, that I can recall. This is important, because, with 18 billion iterations of Batman, and this movie being an elseworld like vampire Batman and Steampunk Batman and Batman Beyond and anime Batman and manga Batman and Nolan Batman and Batman 89 - it's taking the base concept and building a new character off of it. And half of the time, these Batmen are and have been average or poo poo detectives who are fooled very often.
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Nov 20, 2017 14:52
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Hand Knit posted:There are good magnetoes and bad magnetoes. The First Class one is good. And also one of the the closest one to the more separatist type "let's make our own nation and not integrate with white people" thought of the Civil Rights movement that the better versions represent.
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Nov 20, 2017 14:56
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The MSJ posted:Doom isn't democratic but I recall him providing practically every service people in Latveria need for free, and I think in recent comics Galactus underwent a metamorphosis where he became an embodiment of life. Galactus is literally a 'devourer of worlds'. Doom's Latveria has no political activity that anyone is comfortable showing, not even palace intrigue.
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Nov 20, 2017 14:56
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I don't think there's been a single good detective Batman on the big screen. Not even in Mask off the Phantasm is he presented as much of a detective.
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Nov 20, 2017 14:58
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BiggerBoat posted:He's really not and he's making good points. I agree with him about BvS and Lynch. Mullholland Drive is one of the worst "it's so hosed up, it must be genius" films I've ever seen - weird for the sake of being weird - and it's loving horrible. See also, Eyes Wide Shut and, for that matter, Naked Lunch since someone brought up Videodrome. "I love being intellectually challenged, but when I don't like something, that means it's pretentious and not worth thinking about." The idea that people having a read of a film is somehow implicitly calling other people stupid is a fantastically insecure notion.
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Nov 20, 2017 15:02
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If Biggerboat watched a Jodorowsky movie he would leave crying.
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Nov 20, 2017 15:12
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Darko posted:And also one of the the closest one to the more separatist type "let's make our own nation and not integrate with white people" thought of the Civil Rights movement that the better versions represent. Yeah. I think at the time I described First Class as a new take on X-men dynamics based on recent work on 60s history.
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Nov 20, 2017 15:12
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First Class also had that awesome Magneto theme which I'm pretty sure was never used again.
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Nov 20, 2017 15:19
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Serf posted:they should make a We3 movie, but like, do it right. just go all-in on an r-rating. I love We3 but gently caress knows how they'd make it watchable,plus I don't like watching animals getting hurt :[
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Nov 20, 2017 15:21
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sponges posted:If Biggerboat watched a Jodorowsky movie he would leave crying. The irony is that Jodorowsky -- and Lynch, who he was actually using as an example of pretension -- are two of the most genuine, least pretentious filmmakers I can think of. They just do what they want without worrying too much about what other people think or how it will be interpreted.
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Nov 20, 2017 15:23
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:I love We3 but gently caress knows how they'd make it watchable,plus I don't like watching animals getting hurt :[ the latter part is the far more troubling one for me personally. hell, the comic still makes me tear up at certain points
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Nov 20, 2017 15:26
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Yeah I'd contrast that with Aronofsky who seems super concerned about his movies being interpreted "correctly"
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Nov 20, 2017 15:29
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Serf posted:the latter part is the far more troubling one for me personally. hell, the comic still makes me tear up at certain points It’s such a good story. Brazilianpeanutwar posted:I love We3 but gently caress knows how they'd make it watchable,plus I don't like watching animals getting hurt :[ Some of the panel/framing is so loving good and I have NO IDEA where do you begin trying to put that on the big screen. The escape sequence would be really good with the endless quick cuts between the doctor and security camera. I can see that working.
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Nov 20, 2017 15:30
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Yeah I'd contrast that with Aronofsky who seems super concerned about his movies being interpreted "correctly" Or Nolan, whose non-Batman films attract a lot of 'solving'.
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Nov 20, 2017 15:32
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josh04 posted:Or Nolan, whose non-Batman films attract a lot of 'solving'. Those I'm not sure if it's really his fault. He does ambitious ending like in Inception and leaves it up to interpretation, the fans kind of go crazy on their own.
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Nov 20, 2017 15:36
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Serf posted:the latter part is the far more troubling one for me personally. hell, the comic still makes me tear up at certain points Happy Noodle Boy posted:It’s such a good story. If they kept the violence against humans and toned down the violence against animals i'd love it lol,probably the best way to do it would be Robocop meets homeward bound + ultraviolence and CGI.
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Nov 20, 2017 15:39
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BiggerBoat posted:He hated Nazis ergo: he is left wing I guess. It's loving stupid but that's the explanation apparently. Magneto is RW as gently caress; advocating for the master race, enlisting disaffected youth, brainwashing people and calling for mass genocide of "lesser" people. Magneto is an interesting character depending on which one you're looking at. The comics version is one that has changed a lot over the years. He started out a very Malcolm X type leader to Xavier's MLK Jr, at least once they got the whole "Oh right they're minorities" thing rolling Mind you if you know where those two men were heading politically right before they were killed you'd understand just how hilarious that was- notably that MLK was heading more towards Malcolm's position on taking action and being incendiary while Malcolm, as he got older, started to realize that a peaceful solution might be for the best Which DID reflect the comic characters but not in any intentional way Mags in the main comics went from the right to the left, a few different times for a few different reasons. So when you ask people about him you tend to have to figure out what Him they're remembering. Different iterations also showed him differently. Some showed him as just a more extreme leader of civil rights, others turned him into a super villain that wanted to wipe out the human race. Generally Magneto is sympathetic to the left but embraces right wing philosophies, but was made long enough ago that being THAT general is kind of misleading as the right and left have changed over the decades.
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Nov 20, 2017 15:40
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Those I'm not sure if it's really his fault. He does ambitious ending like in Inception and leaves it up to interpretation, the fans kind of go crazy on their own. Memento, though.
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Nov 20, 2017 15:42
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Memento and The Prestige are both "solvable", then Inception teaches you the entire film to understand the metaphorical as literal, then in the last scene hits you round the head with a gigantic metaphor which actively resists being read literally.
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Nov 20, 2017 15:51
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Just do a whole Magneto trilogy where his mutant uprising is a thinly veiled allegory for a communist revolution. And most importantly, use his loving First Class theme.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:03
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Al Borland Corp. posted:I don't think there's been a single good detective Batman on the big screen. Not even in Mask off the Phantasm is he presented as much of a detective. I thought detective Batman was going to make an appearance when I first saw The Dark Knight when Batman recovers those bullet fragments but then they just use a take full fingerprints off of bullet fragments machine.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:03
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A Magnetomento movie where Magneto tries to piece together his life after Professor X mind-wipes him
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Nov 20, 2017 16:05
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Darko posted:I'll give one tiny example. When reading Blazing's rants, one thing really stood out to me - he stated one reason the movie was bad, and I paraphrase, is that "the world's greatest detective was dumb." Even aside all of that stuff, there is no point in the movie at which Batman’s investigations fail him or don’t yield actionable information, and in fact he pulls off a lot of slick fact-finding. What people are actually complaining about is that he does not use detective work to discover certain facts that the viewer cares about but that Batman does not. And that always comes down to basic misunderstanding of the plot, like the idea that foreknowledge of Superman’s mom’s name would be useful in murdering the guy.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:07
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"Next thing you'll tell me is that Galactus is Ghandi", the poster says, ignoring the obvious tells that Galactus has aspects of Cronus/Saturn, the Titan who devoured his sons because he feared being overthrown by them; of Revelation, between heralds and that his feeding is wholesale apocalyptic; and of Sisyphus, in that his feeding is eternal, because he must sate a hunger that can never be sated, the same way Sisyphus must always be pushing up that hill, cursed to never reach a point of rest. A cursed Titan wandering the universe, plucking sole souls from worlds he consumes to inform the next world that he is coming, and there is nothing that can be done. So no, not really Ghandi. He's a mish-mash of Western Civilization myths and legends, like most superhero comics characters.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:12
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A lot of the stuff that people can't come to terms with in BVS are namely that: Batman can be and frequently is wrong. He is the villain, and an rear end in a top hat besides. He is brave but not virtuous.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:12
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The Cameo posted:"Next thing you'll tell me is that Galactus is Ghandi", the poster says, ignoring the obvious tells that Galactus has aspects of Cronus/Saturn, the Titan who devoured his sons because he feared being overthrown by them; of Revelation, between heralds and that his feeding is wholesale apocalyptic; and of Sisyphus, in that his feeding is eternal, because he must sate a hunger that can never be sated, the same way Sisyphus must always be pushing up that hill, cursed to never reach a point of rest. A cursed Titan wandering the universe, plucking sole souls from worlds he consumes to inform the next world that he is coming, and there is nothing that can be done. Exactly lol. These guys (particularly Kirby) were reading Herman Hesse and poo poo. New Gods is explicitly fabular/Old Testament. You think they were unaware of this stuff? Burkion posted:Magneto is an interesting character depending on which one you're looking at. I'm reclaiming Magneto from the smears, chief one being that he was "like Malcolm X" and that Prof. X was "like MLK".
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Nov 20, 2017 16:17
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People wanted Batman to be the good guy and Superman to be the bad guy. They didn't get that. I still don't know why it took hold so strongly in the zeitgeist that "Superman killed millions, didn't save anyone, the movie wasn't in color, never smiled" or whatever. That just literally is not what is depicted on screen.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:19
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There's a reason they did the (really good) retcon of Metropolis and Gotham mirroring each other - it's so that Bruce and Lex could mirror each other. Their alliance is far more natural than Batman and Superman's is. It takes a lot to convince that guy he's wrong.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:22
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I'm reclaiming Magneto from the smears, chief one being that he was "like Malcolm X" and that Prof. X was "like MLK". It's always felt to me more like a social darwinism vs. paternalism thing. The mutant-as-persecuted-minority metaphor -- which seesaws between race and sexual orientation -- generally seems to fall apart when it's the central theme driving the story.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:23
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Superman needed to save way more people, personally, and not like, punching a space laser spider to save millions... Like actually rescuing people during the Zod fight. Or showing close ups with him reacting to the people's safety. You can say "I don't think it needed that, I was fine with what was presented" and that's fair. I was not. It's really that simple. It rubbed me the wrong way. Even if it was supposed to, its still rubbing me the wrong way. I don't think I could be any clearer here when I say the end of Man of Steel bothers me more than any film simply for the baffling choices presented. And then he punches a satellite out of the sky and a joke is made and it's completely off putting to me.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:25
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CelticPredator posted:. And then he punches a satellite out of the sky and a joke is made and it's completely off putting to me. He punched a drone out of the sky.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:27
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CelticPredator posted:Superman needed to save way more people, personally, and not like, punching a space laser spider to save millions... Like actually rescuing people during the Zod fight. Or showing close ups with him reacting to the people's safety. Why do you think anyone else cares what "just rubbed you the wrong way"? It's not interesting to anyone else and adds nothing to the discussion of the films. If you want to be validated, fine. We see that you feel that way, and it's okay. Stop posting the same thing over and over and over. Like, if you could at least connect it to something worth reading about your own subjective emotional experience, it'd be fine. But "I just didn't like it, simple as that" is almost offensive in how you're refusing to engage with either the film or your own experience. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 16:28
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Mechafunkzilla posted:It's always felt to me more like a social darwinism vs. paternalism thing. The mutant-as-persecuted-minority metaphor -- which seesaws between race and sexual orientation -- generally seems to fall apart when it's the central theme driving the story. It's just so fascinating because it's interesting to see comic book writers totally bizarre thoughts about marginalization. Sometimes they acquit themselves well when the analogy is like...teenage acne. But then they get into stuff like AIDS (Legacy Virus) or racial bigotry (basically every other X-Men story where you're supposed to ignore most of the premise to assume they're oppressed) and it's a shitshow.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:30
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Then stop doing this. It's like, everyone who hates these movies said things that bothered them clearly and it's completely thrown out. Al Borland Corp. posted:People wanted Batman to be the good guy and Superman to be the bad guy. They didn't get that. ou're all saying the same thing. This conversation is no different than it was a year ago, or the year before that. No ones opinion has changed.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:30
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CelticPredator posted:Superman needed to save way more people, personally, and not like, punching a space laser spider to save millions... Like actually rescuing people during the Zod fight. Or showing close ups with him reacting to the people's safety. Yeah, we got that in JL and it was loving garbage.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:32
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CelticPredator posted:Superman needed to save way more people, personally, and not like, punching a space laser spider to save millions... Like actually rescuing people during the Zod fight. Or showing close ups with him reacting to the people's safety. What you are feeling here is Superman’s anger and frustration at Zod.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:33
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