Cythereal posted:

I know. Recognizing things intellectually has never been the problem, I've been hearing this from friends and family for a long time. But there is always a difference between what you know intellectually and what your heart and spirit feel. At times it's been a strength how well and naturally I divorce intellectual knowledge from how I feel, and at times a weakness.

I'll be seeing my family again this week for Thanksgiving, so hopefully that will help.

I just needed to vent a little, especially about how this felt coming from a sermon preaching from the pulpit.

Cythereal posted:

I know. Recognizing things intellectually has never been the problem, I've been hearing this from friends and family for a long time. But there is always a difference between what you know intellectually and what your heart and spirit feel. At times it's been a strength how well and naturally I divorce intellectual knowledge from how I feel, and at times a weakness.

I'll be seeing my family again this week for Thanksgiving, so hopefully that will help.

I just needed to vent a little, especially about how this felt coming from a sermon preaching from the pulpit.

Caufman posted:

Peace and love be with you, Cythereal.

I'm curious to know: how do you think your day-to-day choices and long-term goals would change if you were certain God exists? How would they change if you were certain God does not?

Cythereal posted:

I think my perpetual anxiety and habit of thinking and worrying about the future would diminish. I crave purpose, structure, and order in my life. I do not want fame or wealth, I just want stability and knowing what I should be doing each day when I wake up. I don't know if my choices and goals would necessarily change, but I think things would seem less hopeless and uncertain.

If I was certain God did not exist, I would strongly consider suicide just to get it over and done with. Life by its own merits often does not make a compelling case for its value to me.

OwlFancier posted:

Strangely I have the opposite experience whereby atheism makes me completely certain of what to do because whatever I decide to do is as valid as anything else, it is impossible to make an invalid decision.

Whereas if I thought there was a god I would probably have some pause because I would have to try to factor that into what I decide to do and obviously they aren't known for their plain communication.

Hope you find a more productive preacher either way.

Caufman posted:

I find myself with no better option than to make the connection that if God is love, then love is God. I go for broke on the idea that affection and compassion for the cosmos is the salvation of the cosmos. So the evidence for the existence of God that I search for and may plausibly find is in witnessing the efficacy of love. Is it meaningful, and worth living and dying for, as many amazing people have done in the past? I have to share my discoveries so far; the call and response to love has been both challenging and rewarding.

Cythereal posted:

To be, there has to be more than this material world. I have a bachelor's degree in history, I know full well that humanity is capable of extraordinary good, and extraordinary evil. Personally, I'm not convinced humanity sees more of the former than the latter. Much as I love history, and when I write (writing is my primary hobby, friends and family keep badgering me to try my hand at becoming a professional author) I prefer to be entranced by the wonder of science and technology rather than wish for a world of magic, the material world is simply insufficient for me. I have to believe there's some purpose behind it all.

OwlFancier posted:

In writing though I tend to prefer highly fantastical settings, makes a nice change. I can't read realistic books at all and even scifi I prefer to be on the "so advanced as to be magic" end. Also prefer either traditional heroic stories or lovecraftian tragedies, generally I need books to be either uplifting or cathartic. So perhaps we achieve the same emotional needs in different ways.

Cythereal posted:

I enjoy pointing to the printing press as possibly the single most significant invention in the history of the human race.

The Phlegmatist posted:

what a protestant

the most important thing in human history wasn't even an invention, it was the potato

The Phlegmatist posted:

it was the potato

HEY GUNS posted:

anyway one of the few liturgically modern things i do is i don't fast, and i've already told y'all how that makes me feel

Liz Bruenig always deletes her tweets so I'm quoting here posted:

nightcrawler and wolverine havin a theodicy chat in a monastery is extremely me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVdKq3AkfJ8

Cythereal posted:

It's not often I walk out of a service halfway through, but this morning... I had to. Without getting too E/N, I've been suffering from severe depression for a while, and it's been growing worse - probably not helped by me becoming really good at rationalizing why I'm not going to church this morning. I finally went this morning, hoping for something uplifting and inspiring... and according to the pastor, it's apparently all my fault. My fault. I'm like Rahab in Malachi, only I haven't turned my life around because of God. If I'm not inspired by the service today, it's not because of the pastor, it's because of me. I came into church this morning wracked with despair and self hatred, and according to the sermon today that's why I didn't get anything out of the sermon.

I walked out of the service then and there, and sent a more detailed email to the church explaining.

Suffice it to say, I am never visiting that church again.

Slimy Hog posted:

I must have missed the discussion regarding this. If you don't mind talking about it, I am curious why you don't fast.

shame on an IGA posted:

IMO the most consequential technology in human history is a tossup between the telegraph and the bessemer furnace. Whole lot of historical empires might still be standing if they had had cheap steel or comms that could outrun a piece of paper.

Cythereal posted:

I disagree, I think the printing press had far greater knock-on effects through the power of literacy, communications, and the revolution in information speed and flow it presented.

shame on an IGA posted:

I can not imagine the world previous.

HEY GUNS posted:

After a few days I start feeling light-headed and shaky.

HEY GUNS posted:

After a few days I start feeling light-headed and shaky.

Pellisworth posted:

the Haber process

something like 70% of the nitrogen in our bodies (mostly in proteins) is derived from synthetically produced nitrogen fertilizer

quote:

The expansion of the western European Christian peoples of the Latin Church achieved their maximum geographic outreach at the Pacific coast of northern California near San Francisco. Subsequently, the eastward expansion of the eastern European Christians of the Greek Church by means of Russian monks arrived at the same location. The meeting point of the move northward along the Pacific coastline by the Spanish and that of the Russians southward on the same coastline, essentially marked the termination of the expansion of Western Christian Civilization. San Francisco with its notable hills is reminiscent of both Rome and Constantinople (or Byzantium, or New Rome). Behold then, San Francisco, the NEW BYZANTIUM.

An imaginary line drawn from Constantinople along approximately 30 degrees longitude east to west traversing the North Pole, meets Kodiak, Alaska where the Russian monks founded their first mission on American soil. Their subsequent southward expansion likewise brought them to their maximum outreach at approximately the 40th parallel. This was directly across the Earth from Constantinople on firm land -- on the coastline of California in the vicinity of San Francisco. Once again the Orient meets the West. Behold, NEW BYZANTIUM (see also: Hse.ofWrshp.htm Alcatraz Island, San Francisco).

quote:

Is AMERICA
the . . .
NEW BYZANTIUM?

5th Century Byzantine Church in Connecticut!
1,000 years before 1492!

"In the stillness of Cockaponset State Forest, southern Connecticut, near the town of Guilford, masterfully carved from solid rock, stands North America’s oldest Christian church. Recent epigraphic evidence found here suggests that it is 1500 years old, and linked to a voyage of Christian Byzantine monks who fled from North Africa during the 5th Century, in the wake of the Vandal invasions. Greek and North African inscriptions, Greek cupule patterns in the form of Chrismons (monograms of Christ), baptismal fonts, a cathedra or throne, candelabras and an altar have been found at the site."

quote:

DECLARATORY INTRODUCTION
ON PROS AND CONS
OF THE
LASCARIS COMNENUS


By: Dr. Theodore Lascaris Comnenus. Valencia, Venezuela, January 1, 1997.
Prior to the Spanish Civil War of 1936, a PRO-LASCARIS Committee established in Madrid advanced the candidacy of my father, Prince Eugene Lascaris, for the Crowns of Greece and Cyprus, particularly in the years 1923 and 1935.

In the post-World War II period, in 1946, he gave international character to the Greek-Byzantine Institution of the Sovereign (i.e., Independent) Order of Constantine the Great with its feminine branch of Saint Helen; and beginning in 1948, the Review PARTHENON was published -- an organ of the "Greek-Spanish Cultural Association" with its seat in Madrid.

In 1950, as a cultural extension of the Order, my father founded the "Philo -Byzantine Academy and University Magistrorum."

In 1953 in Madrid was created the institute and magazine CONTRA-LASCARIS presided by an ex-Falangist and ex-carlosoctavista named "Le petit Goebles," and his "ad-latere" an author, who through a publication "Hidalguía" presented themselves as implacable adversaries of Prince Eugene, of our Family, and of our Institutions. Such a person wished to bring honor to his name by linking up with us who unfortunately are not sectarian integristas.

Rodríguez Maseda affirms that fanatics in their ignorance border on IDIOCY, being capable of the most incredible doings in word and in deed.

Those mentioned pertained to a group that in the fifties and sixties was led by a politico and his ministers, members of the sect integrista nocedaliana, protected by the totalitarian STATE.

The CONTRA-LASCARIS stem since '53 to date, developing a campaign based on contemptuous insults, denigration and attacks on prestige. With ample financial support, they are dedicated to sending letters and pamphlets everywhere using their "executioners."

While the Lascaris Comnenus Institutions promote "Human Rights" and the "Declaration of Rights of the United Nations," of the OAS and of UNESCO, in favor of understanding, of the comprehension of fraternity, the integristas nocedalianos CONTRAS are enemies of the truth, of reason, and of liberty, by submitting to fanatical obscurantism, isolated from all logic.

As so wisely articulates the top advisor of President Clinton, George Stephanopoulos, when personal attacks are launched, it is a deliberate strategy intended not to debate the real problems. Which in our case is the defense of Human Rights, the freedom of expression and union, as opposed to obscurantism.

GreyjoyBastard posted:

HEY GUNS posted:

Like, I hate it. I feel guilty. It's terrible. My priest said maybe I could eat fish instead, but I don't want to poison myself with heavy metals. Next Lent I'm going to try a very egg-heavy/protein-supplemented meatless-but-still-with-animal-products diet.

HEY GUNS posted:

Like, I hate it. I feel guilty. It's terrible. My priest said maybe I could eat fish instead, but I don't want to poison myself with heavy metals. Next Lent I'm going to try a very egg-heavy/protein-supplemented meatless-but-still-with-animal-products diet.

The Phlegmatist posted:

a fun quirk of human physiology is that there's a big difference between eating little food and eating no food at all

assuming you're metabolically healthy, you'll feel like you can smash boulders with your butthole by day 4 of a water-only fast; this may not be useful for the purposes of mortification

Thirteen Orphans posted:

Christianity Thread 3: Smash Boulders With Your Butthole

Siivola posted:

Hey, I just ran across the anthropologist James Davies, who argues that according to Christian thought, suffering ultimately works to enrich human life. He doesn't go into a whole lot of detail in this article ("Positive and Negative Models of Suffering", in case you're curious) so his argument ends up being pretty vague. Is he correct?

Edit: For clarity, I'm not Christian and it's been ages since I read about religion.

Numerical Anxiety posted:

Responding quickly, I think it goes too far to say that Christian thought presumes that suffering always enriches human life. Stubbing your toe on the kitchen table because you haven't had your first cup of coffee yet has, I'm pretty sure, no spiritual value. Christianity does revolutionize ancient thought by really putting a positive valence on suffering for the Truth, though there are Hellenistic Jewish precursors to this, but far less extreme. Remember than in the Greco-Roman world, suffering is inherently shameful. It's good to be active, the one who makes suffer rather than the victim. Dying in the area isn't just an entertaining way to see one's enemies off, it's also utterly humiliating for the subjected party. Christianity turns this around via the standard Pauline dialectic - suffering for God is stronger than the force of man, hence why martyrs don't bend in the face of torments that would break anyone else. In a way, it has less to do with the character of suffering itself than with how it is used - the word martyros literally translates as "witness." Suffering for the sake of God is valued, but other suffering isn't. Though in a less extreme way, the notion of martyrdom applies itself to other kinds of suffering too - affliction can be used profitably if it translates itself into a rememberance of the transitory nature of things of this world and the eternity of the next.

And, because you might ask, yes, but Socrates... well, Socrates dies for his Truth, yes, but he doesn't suffer, there's no spectacle. That's a key difference.