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Cythereal posted:I know. Recognizing things intellectually has never been the problem, I've been hearing this from friends and family for a long time. But there is always a difference between what you know intellectually and what your heart and spirit feel. At times it's been a strength how well and naturally I divorce intellectual knowledge from how I feel, and at times a weakness.
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# ? Nov 19, 2017 18:33 |
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# ? Jun 11, 2024 10:43 |
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Cythereal posted:I know. Recognizing things intellectually has never been the problem, I've been hearing this from friends and family for a long time. But there is always a difference between what you know intellectually and what your heart and spirit feel. At times it's been a strength how well and naturally I divorce intellectual knowledge from how I feel, and at times a weakness. I've heard sermons to that effect before, but the message was more about being in the moment and clearing your mind of distractions like making grocery list in your head while pretending to listen. I can see how it could be delivered insensitively. It needs to be couched in a way that doesn't insult people who aren't simply daydreaming. I'm sorry the pastor was such a klutz. I hope you can find a place that is more uplifting for you.
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# ? Nov 19, 2017 19:44 |
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Peace and love be with you, Cythereal. I'm curious to know: how do you think your day-to-day choices and long-term goals would change if you were certain God exists? How would they change if you were certain God does not?
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# ? Nov 19, 2017 20:41 |
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Caufman posted:Peace and love be with you, Cythereal. I think my perpetual anxiety and habit of thinking and worrying about the future would diminish. I crave purpose, structure, and order in my life. I do not want fame or wealth, I just want stability and knowing what I should be doing each day when I wake up. I don't know if my choices and goals would necessarily change, but I think things would seem less hopeless and uncertain. If I was certain God did not exist, I would strongly consider suicide just to get it over and done with. Life by its own merits often does not make a compelling case for its value to me.
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# ? Nov 19, 2017 20:55 |
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Strangely I have the opposite experience whereby atheism makes me completely certain of what to do because whatever I decide to do is as valid as anything else, it is impossible to make an invalid decision. Whereas if I thought there was a god I would probably have some pause because I would have to try to factor that into what I decide to do and obviously they aren't known for their plain communication. Hope you find a more productive preacher either way.
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# ? Nov 19, 2017 21:19 |
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Cythereal posted:I think my perpetual anxiety and habit of thinking and worrying about the future would diminish. I crave purpose, structure, and order in my life. I do not want fame or wealth, I just want stability and knowing what I should be doing each day when I wake up. I don't know if my choices and goals would necessarily change, but I think things would seem less hopeless and uncertain.
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# ? Nov 19, 2017 21:22 |
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I don't even know where to begin anymore on the question of the existence of God. As I become more conscious of the manifold ways I perceive God, I also begin to realize the important and manifold ways others must perceive God. And I will only better understand those unique relations to the ultimate meaning through engagement, with fewer and fewer presumptions. I find myself with no better option than to make the connection that if God is love, then love is God. I go for broke on the idea that affection and compassion for the cosmos is the salvation of the cosmos. So the evidence for the existence of God that I search for and may plausibly find is in witnessing the efficacy of love. Is it meaningful, and worth living and dying for, as many amazing people have done in the past? I have to share my discoveries so far; the call and response to love has been both challenging and rewarding.
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# ? Nov 19, 2017 21:52 |
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OwlFancier posted:Strangely I have the opposite experience whereby atheism makes me completely certain of what to do because whatever I decide to do is as valid as anything else, it is impossible to make an invalid decision. To be, there has to be more than this material world. I have a bachelor's degree in history, I know full well that humanity is capable of extraordinary good, and extraordinary evil. Personally, I'm not convinced humanity sees more of the former than the latter. Much as I love history, and when I write (writing is my primary hobby, friends and family keep badgering me to try my hand at becoming a professional author) I prefer to be entranced by the wonder of science and technology rather than wish for a world of magic, the material world is simply insufficient for me. I have to believe there's some purpose behind it all.
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# ? Nov 19, 2017 21:57 |
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Caufman posted:I find myself with no better option than to make the connection that if God is love, then love is God. I go for broke on the idea that affection and compassion for the cosmos is the salvation of the cosmos. So the evidence for the existence of God that I search for and may plausibly find is in witnessing the efficacy of love. Is it meaningful, and worth living and dying for, as many amazing people have done in the past? I have to share my discoveries so far; the call and response to love has been both challenging and rewarding. This is really well-put, thank you.
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# ? Nov 19, 2017 22:06 |
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Cythereal posted:To be, there has to be more than this material world. I have a bachelor's degree in history, I know full well that humanity is capable of extraordinary good, and extraordinary evil. Personally, I'm not convinced humanity sees more of the former than the latter. Much as I love history, and when I write (writing is my primary hobby, friends and family keep badgering me to try my hand at becoming a professional author) I prefer to be entranced by the wonder of science and technology rather than wish for a world of magic, the material world is simply insufficient for me. I have to believe there's some purpose behind it all. Conversely I've been unable to believe that for so long that I can't remember what it feels like to. It's something I guess that atrophies if you never use it. I can't say it really improves your general mental wellbeing though aside from making you a bit stoic which is useful sometimes if offputting in others. In writing though I tend to prefer highly fantastical settings, makes a nice change. I can't read realistic books at all and even scifi I prefer to be on the "so advanced as to be magic" end. Also prefer either traditional heroic stories or lovecraftian tragedies, generally I need books to be either uplifting or cathartic. So perhaps we achieve the same emotional needs in different ways. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Nov 19, 2017 |
# ? Nov 19, 2017 22:26 |
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OwlFancier posted:In writing though I tend to prefer highly fantastical settings, makes a nice change. I can't read realistic books at all and even scifi I prefer to be on the "so advanced as to be magic" end. Also prefer either traditional heroic stories or lovecraftian tragedies, generally I need books to be either uplifting or cathartic. So perhaps we achieve the same emotional needs in different ways. My taste in fiction, especially when I'm writing trends towards the age of exploration and/or the dawn of the industrial age. I enjoy reading and writing about societies being convulsed by change, as magic and mysticism give way to science and technology, feudal systems of fealty and loyalty burn in the fires of nationalism, monarchies begin to give way to democracy and representation, and mass communication starts to take off through the printing press, the semaphore, and the telegraph. In harnessing electricity mankind steals the thunderbolt of the gods. My interest in history has always been less any particular period than in the history of technology and information, and society's relationship with these two forces that we can't always control. I enjoy pointing to the printing press as possibly the single most significant invention in the history of the human race.
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# ? Nov 19, 2017 22:36 |
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I like the printing press just fine, but surely the wheel would hold that title.
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 00:48 |
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A refinement of sled really.
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 00:51 |
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Cythereal posted:I enjoy pointing to the printing press as possibly the single most significant invention in the history of the human race. what a protestant the most important thing in human history wasn't even an invention, it was the potato
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 01:15 |
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The Phlegmatist posted:what a protestant If you want to go with agriculture, I think I'd pick wheat or rice as the most significant food crop adopted by mankind, not the potato.
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 01:21 |
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The Phlegmatist posted:it was the potato https://twitter.com/rabiasquared/status/925513523186339841 https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/photoshopped-welcome-potato-pope-photo-827201 HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Nov 20, 2017 |
# ? Nov 20, 2017 01:23 |
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You are all forgetting perhaps the most consequential piece of technology ever to be introduced, the bashing rock.
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 01:42 |
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HEY GUNS posted:anyway one of the few liturgically modern things i do is i don't fast, and i've already told y'all how that makes me feel I must have missed the discussion regarding this. If you don't mind talking about it, I am curious why you don't fast.
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 03:33 |
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https://twitter.com/ebruenig/status/932443173389062146Liz Bruenig always deletes her tweets so I'm quoting here posted:nightcrawler and wolverine havin a theodicy chat in a monastery is extremely me
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 06:02 |
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Cythereal posted:It's not often I walk out of a service halfway through, but this morning... I had to. Without getting too E/N, I've been suffering from severe depression for a while, and it's been growing worse - probably not helped by me becoming really good at rationalizing why I'm not going to church this morning. I finally went this morning, hoping for something uplifting and inspiring... and according to the pastor, it's apparently all my fault. My fault. I'm like Rahab in Malachi, only I haven't turned my life around because of God. If I'm not inspired by the service today, it's not because of the pastor, it's because of me. I came into church this morning wracked with despair and self hatred, and according to the sermon today that's why I didn't get anything out of the sermon. Hey, man.. If the sermon adressed the exact feeling you came in with, that's a net gain. I go to meetings and hear the stories exactly because I know I will hear someone tell me how I'm feeling and what to do about it. You're suffering from a disease, and it's telling you you suck because you're not cured of it. It's not who you are. Hang in there.
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 07:58 |
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Slimy Hog posted:I must have missed the discussion regarding this. If you don't mind talking about it, I am curious why you don't fast.
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 12:38 |
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IMO the most consequential technology in human history is a tossup between the telegraph and the bessemer furnace. Whole lot of historical empires might still be standing if they had had cheap steel or comms that could outrun a piece of paper.
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 17:56 |
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shame on an IGA posted:IMO the most consequential technology in human history is a tossup between the telegraph and the bessemer furnace. Whole lot of historical empires might still be standing if they had had cheap steel or comms that could outrun a piece of paper. I disagree, I think the printing press had far greater knock-on effects through the power of literacy, communications, and the revolution in information speed and flow it presented.
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 18:02 |
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pidan fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Mar 13, 2018 |
# ? Nov 20, 2017 18:18 |
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Cythereal posted:I disagree, I think the printing press had far greater knock-on effects through the power of literacy, communications, and the revolution in information speed and flow it presented. Ok you're right, that was so fundamentally transformational that I can not imagine the world previous. E^ Movable type didn't have the same impact in the east that developed it first because of the non-phonetic alphabets. A full set of type for Chinese was something like 100,000 characters, for most things it ended up being faster to carve a woodblock for each page. Korea had all the pieces for a printing revolution once Hangul was introduced but the nobility kept it under wraps and suppressed any non-official use of the technology until long after Gutenberg. shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Nov 20, 2017 |
# ? Nov 20, 2017 18:21 |
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the Haber process something like 70% of the nitrogen in our bodies (mostly in proteins) is derived from synthetically produced nitrogen fertilizer
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 18:32 |
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pidan fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Mar 13, 2018 |
# ? Nov 20, 2017 18:35 |
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shame on an IGA posted:I can not imagine the world previous.
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 21:03 |
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HEY GUNS posted:After a few days I start feeling light-headed and shaky.
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# ? Nov 20, 2017 21:28 |
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HEY GUNS posted:After a few days I start feeling light-headed and shaky. I'm somewhat vulnerable to low blood sugar so I wouldn't even make it two. Pellisworth posted:the Haber process
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# ? Nov 21, 2017 00:03 |
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i eat once a day every day, even when i work from two to midnight as you might imagine i’m glad to not fast as a spiritual practice anymore because differentiating regular fasting from religious fasting is kinda hard
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# ? Nov 21, 2017 00:07 |
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Hey, I just ran across the anthropologist James Davies, who argues that according to Christian thought, suffering ultimately works to enrich human life. He doesn't go into a whole lot of detail in this article ("Positive and Negative Models of Suffering", in case you're curious) so his argument ends up being pretty vague. Is he correct? Edit: For clarity, I'm not Christian and it's been ages since I read about religion.
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# ? Nov 21, 2017 00:12 |
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Ladies and Gentlemen, do you yet mourn the City of the World's Desire? Are you still thrilled by the glory that was Rome, all the more scintillating for having taken on Christian garb? Do you paint Europe purple in Paradox games painstakingly converted by hand? Or is it that you have become weary of TimeCube but long for the rush it once gave you? You miss the internet of twenty years ago, and the ringing of slapping blows exchanged over nonsense genealogies? Well, I have something that will appease you in all these ways, and still more. I give you NEW BYZANTIUM! I cannot hope to present to you with a few words the delight that the Fourth Rome promises, but let this whet your appetites: quote:The expansion of the western European Christian peoples of the Latin Church achieved their maximum geographic outreach at the Pacific coast of northern California near San Francisco. Subsequently, the eastward expansion of the eastern European Christians of the Greek Church by means of Russian monks arrived at the same location. The meeting point of the move northward along the Pacific coastline by the Spanish and that of the Russians southward on the same coastline, essentially marked the termination of the expansion of Western Christian Civilization. San Francisco with its notable hills is reminiscent of both Rome and Constantinople (or Byzantium, or New Rome). Behold then, San Francisco, the NEW BYZANTIUM. quote:
quote:DECLARATORY INTRODUCTION
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# ? Nov 21, 2017 01:43 |
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The massive increase in human population starting in the 20th century is largely attributable to the Haber process and synthetic fertilizers. I think it's one of the few huge leaps in our technology but it's extremely underrated. HEY GUNS posted:Like, I hate it. I feel guilty. It's terrible. My priest said maybe I could eat fish instead, but I don't want to poison myself with heavy metals. Next Lent I'm going to try a very egg-heavy/protein-supplemented meatless-but-still-with-animal-products diet. You can eat a can of tuna a day year-round and you're still fine. Or just eat fish lower down on the food chain. The problem with tuna is they're at the very top of the food chain, so they concentrate mercury and heavy metals through bioaccumulation. Eat boring poo poo like tilapia. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Nov 21, 2017 |
# ? Nov 21, 2017 02:15 |
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Reading that on mobile should count as mortification.
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# ? Nov 21, 2017 02:17 |
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HEY GUNS posted:Like, I hate it. I feel guilty. It's terrible. My priest said maybe I could eat fish instead, but I don't want to poison myself with heavy metals. Next Lent I'm going to try a very egg-heavy/protein-supplemented meatless-but-still-with-animal-products diet. a fun quirk of human physiology is that there's a big difference between eating little food and eating no food at all assuming you're metabolically healthy, you'll feel like you can smash boulders with your butthole by day 4 of a water-only fast; this may not be useful for the purposes of mortification
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# ? Nov 21, 2017 02:30 |
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The Phlegmatist posted:a fun quirk of human physiology is that there's a big difference between eating little food and eating no food at all Christianity Thread 3: Smash Boulders With Your Butthole
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# ? Nov 21, 2017 03:09 |
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Christianity Thread 3: Smash Boulders With Your Butthole A novel interpretation of the passage about faith moving mountains.
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# ? Nov 21, 2017 03:16 |
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Siivola posted:Hey, I just ran across the anthropologist James Davies, who argues that according to Christian thought, suffering ultimately works to enrich human life. He doesn't go into a whole lot of detail in this article ("Positive and Negative Models of Suffering", in case you're curious) so his argument ends up being pretty vague. Is he correct? Responding quickly, I think it goes too far to say that Christian thought presumes that suffering always enriches human life. Stubbing your toe on the kitchen table because you haven't had your first cup of coffee yet has, I'm pretty sure, no spiritual value. Christianity does revolutionize ancient thought by really putting a positive valence on suffering for the Truth, though there are Hellenistic Jewish precursors to this, but far less extreme. Remember than in the Greco-Roman world, suffering is inherently shameful. It's good to be active, the one who makes suffer rather than the victim. Dying in the area isn't just an entertaining way to see one's enemies off, it's also utterly humiliating for the subjected party. Christianity turns this around via the standard Pauline dialectic - suffering for God is stronger than the force of man, hence why martyrs don't bend in the face of torments that would break anyone else. In a way, it has less to do with the character of suffering itself than with how it is used - the word martyros literally translates as "witness." Suffering for the sake of God is valued, but other suffering isn't. Though in a less extreme way, the notion of martyrdom applies itself to other kinds of suffering too - affliction can be used profitably if it translates itself into a rememberance of the transitory nature of things of this world and the eternity of the next. And, because you might ask, yes, but Socrates... well, Socrates dies for his Truth, yes, but he doesn't suffer, there's no spectacle. That's a key difference.
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# ? Nov 21, 2017 03:48 |
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# ? Jun 11, 2024 10:43 |
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Numerical Anxiety posted:Responding quickly, I think it goes too far to say that Christian thought presumes that suffering always enriches human life. Stubbing your toe on the kitchen table because you haven't had your first cup of coffee yet has, I'm pretty sure, no spiritual value. Christianity does revolutionize ancient thought by really putting a positive valence on suffering for the Truth, though there are Hellenistic Jewish precursors to this, but far less extreme. Remember than in the Greco-Roman world, suffering is inherently shameful. It's good to be active, the one who makes suffer rather than the victim. Dying in the area isn't just an entertaining way to see one's enemies off, it's also utterly humiliating for the subjected party. Christianity turns this around via the standard Pauline dialectic - suffering for God is stronger than the force of man, hence why martyrs don't bend in the face of torments that would break anyone else. In a way, it has less to do with the character of suffering itself than with how it is used - the word martyros literally translates as "witness." Suffering for the sake of God is valued, but other suffering isn't. Though in a less extreme way, the notion of martyrdom applies itself to other kinds of suffering too - affliction can be used profitably if it translates itself into a rememberance of the transitory nature of things of this world and the eternity of the next. I personally believe that how we react to stubbing our toe in a situation like that can have spiritual value.
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# ? Nov 21, 2017 04:30 |