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i would straight up kill any one of you for a rail line from Madison to ChicagoBangersInMyKnickers posted:So in these fantasy traffic systems are they expecting all cars to have some kind of ultra-reliable high speed internet connection talking to a coordination server for traffic flow management or some kind of wireless yelling match to figure out who goes when or do they just expect optical sensors to figure it all out of your three choices, which one do you really think it is hint, it's the hand wavy one
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Nov 20, 2017 19:36
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lancemantis posted:ah yeah, i guess i didn't think through things in a suburban enough of manner: the biggest problems in the world are things that
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Nov 20, 2017 19:37
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"ugh I hate stoplights so much they're so dumb" *is forced to wait for 2 minutes at most* "why cant I just drive drunk the bar is so far away and im not going to leave my car in a neighborhood those people might steal it in" "i wish i could just continue to bury my face in my phone like i do at all times not requiring my attention"
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Nov 20, 2017 19:37
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infernal machines posted:i'm the loose patch of gravel in the middle of the intersection that causes a momentary loss of traction and a 20 car pileup and more broadly, i'm the jackass who when the roads are full of self-driving cars will start just crossing the street wherever without caring about traffic, since they will as a rule all stop for me whether there is a pedestrian crossing or not, personally slowing down traffic citywide out of spite
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Nov 20, 2017 19:37
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man that's a pretty big ask, there must have been quite the severance offer attached... "in return for two weeks severance pay" yeah ok a nice big "no, you go gently caress yourself" is appropriate there.
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Nov 20, 2017 19:38
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infernal machines posted:i'm the loose patch of gravel in the middle of the intersection that causes a momentary loss of traction and a 20 car pileup thank you for playing police quest don't make this mistake again
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Nov 20, 2017 19:38
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there's a reasonable case to be made that self driving cars would shift economic incentives from owning cars to some kind of uber type model that reduces congestion in cities. the basic argument is, cars spend 90% of the day sitting in a parking spot taking up space. if they can drive themselves then the economics will strongly favor some kind of sharing model. fewer cars needed to serve the same people and space in cities is reclaimed from parking spots. also if you go all electric then the car can go charge itself somewhere while not in use, etc.
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Nov 20, 2017 19:39
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:So in these fantasy traffic systems are they expecting all cars to have some kind of ultra-reliable high speed internet connection talking to a coordination server for traffic flow management or some kind of wireless yelling match to figure out who goes when or do they just expect optical sensors to figure it all out they have magic. i've seen articles about theoretical peer-to-peer info sharing from vehicles in the area, completely ignoring how there's nothing even approaching a standard for autonomous sensors, data formats, etc.
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Nov 20, 2017 19:39
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:don't forget the best part: magical intersection management this game is fun: https://captaingames.itch.io/freeways
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Nov 20, 2017 19:40
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:and more broadly, i'm the jackass who when the roads are full of self-driving cars will start just crossing the street wherever without caring about traffic, since they will as a rule all stop for me whether there is a pedestrian crossing or not, personally slowing down traffic citywide out of spite
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Nov 20, 2017 19:40
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:and more broadly, i'm the jackass who when the roads are full of self-driving cars will start just crossing the street wherever without caring about traffic, since they will as a rule all stop for me whether there is a pedestrian crossing or not, personally slowing down traffic citywide out of spite i'll be doing this but with holograms
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Nov 20, 2017 19:41
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:and more broadly, i'm the jackass who when the roads are full of self-driving cars will start just crossing the street wherever without caring about traffic, since they will as a rule all stop for me whether there is a pedestrian crossing or not, personally slowing down traffic citywide out of spite this is unironically me. i will do this. i do this now.
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Nov 20, 2017 19:41
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infernal machines posted:they have magic. 2017 is the year of linux on the blacktop
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Nov 20, 2017 19:41
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:and more broadly, i'm the jackass who when the roads are full of self-driving cars will start just crossing the street wherever without caring about traffic, since they will as a rule all stop for me whether there is a pedestrian crossing or not, personally slowing down traffic citywide out of spite you would need to have 3 pedestrian refuges to cross 16 lanes of roadway so that's 4 ped signal phases to gently caress up traffic right there, 8 if you include both n-s and e-w ped crossings not that anyone would design that anyway it would just be a giant flyover pedestrian overcrossing costing millions more if there were ever peds anywhere near this abomination
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Nov 20, 2017 19:43
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:some kind of uber type model that reduces congestion in cities this is where that breaks down btw peak hour demand (what you design roads around) remains unchanged and congestion just goes up outside of that since taxis just drive around all day looking for or serving fares - trip generation analysis just doesn't hold up basically  you need a modal shift from drivers to reduce congestion, full stop
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Nov 20, 2017 19:46
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uber has noticebly made traffic insanely worse here in the bay area
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Nov 20, 2017 19:47
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Xaris posted:just lol if you dont do this already in a major city. i'm an rear end in a top hat pedestrian in sf, why yes i'm going to intentionally walk slow in this lane that is really backed up and also start walking with only a few seconds left I'm a super considerate pedestrian and I still get almost run over a few times a month
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Nov 20, 2017 19:47
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self driving cars will suck at first, but the thing is that even when they crash and kill that nice family, at least you can upload that data and learn from it. they'll get better over time, and it's not like we do a stellar job already of not killing ourselves... i mean "autonomous cars kill 35,000 people a year in the US" would be a crazy headline, but "people kill 35,000 people a year with cars in the US" is just of accepted?
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Nov 20, 2017 19:48
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qirex posted:I'm a super considerate pedestrian and I still get almost run over a few times a month but yea im probably going to get hit one of these days
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Nov 20, 2017 19:48
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crabrock posted:i mean "autonomous cars kill 35,000 people a year in the US" would be a crazy headline, but "people kill 35,000 people a year with cars in the US" is just of accepted? and now a word from the national car association
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Nov 20, 2017 19:49
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gonna get a tesla asap strap my family in that thing and then hope they die in a fiery crash so i can get some of that sweet settlement money before skynet learns all the good driving skills
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Nov 20, 2017 19:52
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crabrock posted:self driving cars will suck at first, but the thing is that even when they crash and kill that nice family, at least you can upload that data and ftfy
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Nov 20, 2017 19:52
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Xaris posted:i blame uber drivers, they are the worst. i saw a bus almost crush an uber last week who decided that a good place to stop and suddenly let out a fare would be the red zone covered in NO STOPPING signage that has no parking lane whatsoever it got me wondering how closely traffic enforcement looks at these guys, since it's not like you've got a big number painted on your roof and bumpers to easily identify some rear end in a top hat like taxis are required to have
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Nov 20, 2017 19:53
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i would have also accepted "sell it to advertisers" or "use it to void your warranty at the earliest possible chance"
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Nov 20, 2017 19:53
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:i would straight up kill any one of you for a rail line from Madison to Chicago your governor vetoed it remember?
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Nov 20, 2017 19:54
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hobbesmaster posted:your governor vetoed it remember? all too well
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Nov 20, 2017 19:55
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anyway as this thread has been over a million times we already know what causes car crashes and have some real, measurable, 100% certain ways of lowering the amount of car crashes a huge amount. instead we're sinking a bunch of money into magical self-driving cars that are currently worse drivers in every way.
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Nov 20, 2017 19:55
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:this is where that breaks down btw it does help with parking congestion (your car drops you off at work and then goes and hides somewhere else waiting for its next call) which is useful
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Nov 20, 2017 19:55
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ate all the Oreos posted:i would have also accepted "sell it to advertisers" or "use it to void your warranty at the earliest possible chance" just lol if you don't think they'll do all 4 at the same time.
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Nov 20, 2017 19:55
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crabrock posted:self driving cars will suck at first, but the thing is that even when they crash and kill that nice family, at least you can upload that data and learn from it. they'll get better over time, and it's not like we do a stellar job already of not killing ourselves... this'd be a huge derail to get into discussing very deeply, but this is a wide-ranging assumption that it is somewhat invisible to people; deep learning techniques have had a of success when getting data thrown at them, but there is no actual argument or proof why they must necessarily keep going towards perfection in every scenario we imagine, such as self-driving cars that is, there may be a combinatorial explosion inherent in the self-driving task when mapped onto the deep learning structure (i.e. neural networks of some simple topologies), and they may never improve to the level people keep expecting. sure we are seeing progress now, but it may be approaching perfect self-driving only in the way you can approach going to the moon by climbing higher in a tree
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Nov 20, 2017 19:58
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:there's a reasonable case to be made that self driving cars would shift economic incentives from owning cars to some kind of uber type model that reduces congestion in cities. the basic argument is, cars spend 90% of the day sitting in a parking spot taking up space. if they can drive themselves then the economics will strongly favor some kind of sharing model. fewer cars needed to serve the same people and space in cities is reclaimed from parking spots. also if you go all electric then the car can go charge itself somewhere while not in use, etc. using a car that someone else has been in and doesn't have all my favorite things set up and all my crap everywhere? ewwww
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Nov 20, 2017 19:59
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:this'd be a huge derail to get into discussing very deeply, but this is a wide-ranging assumption that it is somewhat invisible to people; deep learning techniques have had a of success when getting data thrown at them, but there is no actual argument or proof why they must necessarily keep going towards perfection in every scenario we imagine, such as self-driving cars i was just about to post essentially this. ml isn't magic and flawed models produce flawed results no matter how much data you pump into them
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Nov 20, 2017 19:59
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https://twitter.com/CIAGoFundMe/status/932270774374817792
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Nov 20, 2017 20:00
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flakeloaf posted:2017 is the year of linux on the blacktop
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Nov 20, 2017 20:00
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really autonomous cars are a great current example of tech solutionism at its finest
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Nov 20, 2017 20:01
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p much. lots of people, even smart people who should know better, think machine learning is some exponential process that one day will just hit the part of the curve that flies off to infinity and suddenly we'll have god-AI. from what i've heard from actual researchers though, there's tons and tons of saddle points and local minima and all sorts of other random bullshit in that graph that computers constantly get stuck in, and we're not even sure what lies beyond that bullshit (if anything)
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Nov 20, 2017 20:02
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lancemantis posted:using a car that someone else has been in and doesn't have all my favorite things set up and all my crap everywhere? ewwww that would own, i would rip such nasty farts in a self-driving car with nobody else in it, keep the windows shut for the next person
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Nov 20, 2017 20:02
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Xaris posted:i blame uber drivers, they are the worst. You're the reason I get stuck in traffic in Daly City. I will pee on the toilet paper in your office every day.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:05
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:it got me wondering how closely traffic enforcement looks at these guys, since it's not like you've got a big number painted on your roof and bumpers to easily identify some rear end in a top hat like taxis are required to have if you know anything about the sfpd they pretty much don't enforce traffic laws like ever so the reality is far, far worse
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Nov 20, 2017 20:07
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qirex posted:if you know anything about the sfpd they pretty much don't enforce
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Nov 20, 2017 20:09
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