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lets talk about making procgen indies that sell themselves as being procgen versions of beloved classics, and then end up being clones of beloved classics with pretty interesting takes on game mechanics that also don't work at all because they're clones of games that worked with the help of good level design and removing that level design from the equation just makes it a forgettable mess
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Nov 20, 2017 23:39
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the best of the recent generation of procgen junk that I've played is Sublevel Zero, the procgen roguelike Descent clone. Descent level design was nonsense to start with so this works just fine
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Nov 20, 2017 23:39
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an actual dog posted:Why would you make a game like this? People like dailies and procgen way more than just like, an arcade game. I think Nex Machina is a good recent example of an indie game that just made a 40 minute game and nobody bought it
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Nov 20, 2017 23:41
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I think the best design model, if you have a game where you want to tell a story or have an experience with an endpoint, is make that as concise and dense and rich as possible with no filler. Then, if your gameplay is good enough that people would want to keep playing, you can have your postgame with the more repetitive or even endless content that people can play until they have their fill.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:43
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I mostly avoid procgen games but I had fun with a couple this year. One is Monolith because a full run through is like 20 minutes long so I didn't have time to get bored, and the other is Towerclimb (though it didn't come out this year) because the skill ceiling is somewhere up in space and through some kind of indie game magic it somehow does level generation that is freshly challenging every single time. Oh right I also played the newest Shiren which was good but it's an actual roguelike.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:44
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Kanfy posted:Haven't you bought almost every major release this year though, people with smaller gaming budgets might not be quite so open to the idea. Not even close. I'm pretty sure a lot of gamers buy way more games than I do. Having a wife also increases the number of games we buy, as we have different tastes and priorities and while I usually play games she buys and vice versa, if I were alone I wouldn't own half the games I do.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:44
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I think the best design model, if you have a game where you want to tell a story or have an experience with an endpoint, is make that as concise and dense and rich as possible with no filler. Then, if your gameplay is good enough that people would want to keep playing, you can have your postgame with the more repetitive or even endless content that people can play until they have their fill. this is what the zwei games do, which is odd considering zwei 1 barely has mechanics for people to dive into and zwei 2 is already near impossible to 100% before the post-game comes into the equation and then trails to infinity just has a 20 hour story and then a 10-hour extra story, and then an equal number of new game+ bonus levels, but it's the one game where it makes sense because the gameplay in trails to infinity loving rocks The Colonel fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 23:45
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It's still technically progen but TumbleSeed got way better when they changed from a way too hard roguelike structure to one with levels, and it did a neat thing where it generates the level once and lets you try the same level over and over again to get it right. I think a lot of indie devs have played their games so much they don't realize what works and what doesn't when someone new tries their game.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:48
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anyway paranautical activity is the worst roguelike fps i've ever played and i think all games should use it as an example of what not to make
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Nov 20, 2017 23:49
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The Colonel posted:anyway paranautical activity is the worst roguelike fps i've ever played and i think all games should use it as an example of what not to make I wanted very badly to like it but it's just... not good
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Nov 20, 2017 23:52
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In Training posted:People like dailies and procgen way more than just like, an arcade game. I think Nex Machina is a good recent example of an indie game that just made a 40 minute game and nobody bought it Yea that's a good point 
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Nov 20, 2017 23:52
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Roguelikes are the only video game genre that I have zero respect for. Most of them just scream, "I have no idea how to properly balance a game and have no concept of good level design so here this game's that essentially rolling dice" to me.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:53
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actual roguey roguelikes are pretty cool though, and most of them are free
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Nov 20, 2017 23:54
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The Colonel posted:anyway paranautical activity is the worst roguelike fps i've ever played and i think all games should use it as an example of what not to make isnt that the game where the dev sent threats of physical violence to Gabe Newell
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Nov 20, 2017 23:54
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I don't think roguelike fps has ever worked. Maybe good level generation is too hard, or the thing you do in fpses too simple.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:54
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Anyway im glad for the general trend because i like binding of isaac and absolutely love nuclear throne so its a wash overall
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Nov 20, 2017 23:55
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lets hang out posted:I don't think roguelike fps has ever worked
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Nov 20, 2017 23:55
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https://twitter.com/RPGSite/status/931937983808266240
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Nov 20, 2017 23:57
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Not a Children posted:I wanted very badly to like it but it's just... not good it's unbelievably ugly and bland and i bought it for a buck while the greenlight drama was happening and ended up questioning why people were so upset about a really bad game getting kept off of steam and then the final release came out on steam and it was exactly the same as the alpha except like, you could select a class In Training posted:isnt that the game where the dev sent threats of physical violence to Gabe Newell it only got back on steam when they sold the rights to another company
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Nov 20, 2017 23:57
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Accordion Man posted:Roguelikes are the only video game genre that I have zero respect for. Most of them just scream, "I have no idea how to properly balance a game and have no concept of good level design so here this game's that essentially rolling dice" to me. That's... not how they're made? Or how they work?
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Nov 21, 2017 00:00
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I like rogue likes/lites but like most trendy genres, 90% of what's made is garbage that doesn't understand why the thing is good when it's done well
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Nov 21, 2017 00:02
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Mordja posted:Hey FAU. I've been reading the Youtube Kids thread in GBS which is the definition of Wow, lowkey burn to Facts Are Useless.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:03
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Ddda question: What level is a good starting point for bitterback isle? Im at like 32 right now at the start of the greatwall quest in the main game and im kinda bored since its my 3rd playthrough of the base content and im just rushing the story to get exp with the idea that i'll just grind in everfall to prepare for bitterback, but if i can go earlier and have a decent time i'd be up for that too. Also whats the item everyone says trivializes bitterback isle? Some kind of status effect arrow? Thanks Real hurthling! fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 00:19
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Rusted weapons can inflict torpor, which basically makes enemies move in slow motion. Around level 35-40 is probably fine.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:25
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FirstAidKite posted:Wow, lowkey burn to Facts Are Useless. Haha, whoops.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:28
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Invisible inc is the argument for procgen but Klei are very good designers and it's also a game with preconstructed blocks that fit together in smart ways.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:41
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glam rock hamhock posted:On the one hand padding is bad. On the other hand I get this sense that as gamers have gotten older and now have less free time rather than just accept they won't be able to play everything, they now act like the industry should change due to their new needs and actually offering a really long game is a bad thing The secret is, it always was
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Nov 21, 2017 00:49
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al-azad posted:Invisible inc is the argument for procgen but Klei are very good designers and it's also a game with preconstructed blocks that fit together in smart ways.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:54
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Nov 21, 2017 01:02
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al-azad posted:Invisible inc is the argument for procgen but Klei are very good designers and it's also a game with preconstructed blocks that fit together in smart ways. Spelunky also did this, if I remember right, and it's another argument for procgen. ...But I mean, procgen requires a good game designer, and if you don't have that, you're screwed.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:06
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corn in the bible posted:The secret is, it always was People that whine that a shooter is ten hours or a RPG is twenty are out of their depths. Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 01:22
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Heat Signature is a good procgen game. Related: is there a distinction to be made between randomly generated content and procedurally generated content? Cause I feel like the concepts are used interchangeably when they should mean different things.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:28
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A good game that I wish was on steam.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:35
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Poops Mcgoots posted:Heat Signature is a good procgen game. its the difference between white noise and perlin noise
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Nov 21, 2017 01:36
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precision posted:Pyre and Hellblade would certainly be tied for "games that I felt most satisfied with" this year how about "game I regret buying the most" mine's Agents of Mayhem at $45 what was I thinking 
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Nov 21, 2017 01:39
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https://twitter.com/redbullesports/status/931595926275272704
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Nov 21, 2017 01:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUju_e0T8O8&t=362s
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Nov 21, 2017 02:02
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Speaking of long good games Too bad there'll never be a remake or sequel
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Nov 21, 2017 02:04
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nachos posted:how about "game I regret buying the most" Spore
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Nov 21, 2017 02:26
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Will Wright probably could've made some more cool games if the internet didn't murder him after Spore idk
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Nov 21, 2017 02:28
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