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the best part is there's not even any of the usual chickenshit pragmatic reasons to avoid doing the right thing it's just pure, naked defense of power from consequence at this point
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Nov 21, 2017 20:14
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i dont think franken should resign hell i dont think he should have signed in the first place
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Nov 21, 2017 20:21
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Cerebral Bore posted:I kinda have to respect JC's determination to go for the dumbest take possible even when the self-evident fact that resignation and investigation aren't mutually exclusive has been explained to him in no uncertain terms. I mean, that’s exactly what I’m advocating, so maybe learn to read? They should investigate and then he should resign. If you’re not part of the nothing matters senate investigations are pointless and absurd crew then we’re fully in agreement.
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Nov 21, 2017 20:55
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Calibanibal posted:i dont think franken should resign 
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Nov 21, 2017 20:59
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JeffersonClay posted:I mean, that’s exactly what I’m advocating, so maybe learn to read? They should investigate and then he should resign. But get this: What if he resigned first, and then they investigated?
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Nov 21, 2017 21:11
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sirtommygunn posted:But get this: What if he resigned first, and then they investigated? Kinda baffled that he still missed this pretty obvious idea, even when saying that Franken should resign regardless of the result of the investigation.
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Nov 21, 2017 21:15
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that would deny him another invocation of the Process surely, this time, republicans will start respecting the Process surely, this time, republicans will be cowed by their hypocrisy surely, this time, Lucy will let him kick the football
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Nov 21, 2017 21:23
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sirtommygunn posted:But get this: What if he resigned first, and then they investigated? Then maybe the investigation doesn’t happen. If it does still happen, it’s probably a lot less of a media spectacle. When people gently caress up and get found out, they resign in order to avoid additional scrutiny. It’s certainly not self evident that strategy has stopped working.
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Nov 21, 2017 21:27
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the true feminist, who holds a sexual assault investigation hostage in exchange for the seat of a sexual assaulter bellissimo
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Nov 21, 2017 21:30
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It's not self evident that my strategy has stopped working says man who's been wrong about everything for the past two years.
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Nov 21, 2017 21:33
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Cerebral Bore posted:It's not self evident that my strategy has stopped working says man who's been wrong about everything for the past two years. Try seven.
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Nov 21, 2017 21:47
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Cerebral Bore posted:It's not self evident that my strategy has stopped working says man who's been wrong about everything for the past two years. It’s not my strategy, idiot, it’s the strategy employed by some public officials whose embarrassing behavior has been uncovered. They resign, rather than fighting to the end, because they want to avoid some of the negative media attention. In this case, negative media attention for Franken is good, so I don’t want him to avoid it, even in part, by resigning.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:01
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He must not resign so he can be brought to justice (and then he'll resign). This is a novel approach, I must say.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:19
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JeffersonClay posted:It’s the opposite, I think the optics would certainly be better for democrats if Franken resigns now rather than after a long, embarrassing investigation. I just think the long, embarrassing investigation might be useful in dismantling misogyny. JeffersonClay posted:Concluding democrats won’t have any additional leverage in that situation because nothing matters might not be a genius take. There’s no downside if it happens, just the risk that maybe it won’t matter. So wait, is this about fighting misogyny or giving Democrats leverage?
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Nov 21, 2017 22:27
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Helsing posted:So wait, is this about fighting misogyny or giving Democrats leverage? It’s about fighting misogyny, and one aspect of fighting involves giving democrats more leverage.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:30
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JeffersonClay posted:It’s about fighting misogyny, and one aspect of fighting involves giving democrats more leverage. ...by protecting misogyny. sometimes you just gotta go out there and call anita hill a lying whore, to preserve the democrats' leverage on... says here "welfare reform?" weird.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:42
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The thread’s dumb enough without you intentionally misreading it, ze pollack.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:46
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you never heard the phrase "fight misogyny with misogyny"? 
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Nov 21, 2017 22:46
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Here folks, just print this out, put it on your fridge and fill in the blank as necessary. You never need to read a JC post again. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -cut on this line - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JeffersonClay posted:It’s about fighting _______________, and one aspect of fighting involves giving democrats more leverage.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:47
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Condiv posted:you never heard the phrase "fight misogyny with misogyny"? It’s weird that you think senate investigations are misogyny. It’s weird that others think giving democrats more leverage to fight misogyny is a bad thing.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:57
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People are dunking on you because this entire conversation is the most ridiculous kind of castle-in-the-sky 13th dimensional chess none-sense imaginable and you just come off as disingenuous.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:59
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“Politicians resign to avoid additional negative scrutiny, and negative scrutiny is helpful in fighting misogyny” is 13th dimensional chess to y’all? I don’t think I can dumb the ideas down any more than that, but thanks for being honest about your needs. I’m willing to try harder if it will help y’all stop dunking on yourselves with brilliant takes like “senate investigations are misogyny” and “democrats shouldn’t get more leverage to investigate sexual crimes”.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:08
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JeffersonClay posted:“Politicians resign to avoid additional negative scrutiny, and negative scrutiny is helpful in fighting misogyny” is 13th dimensional chess to y’all? I don’t think I can dumb the ideas down any more than that, but thanks for being honest about your needs. I’m willing to try harder if it will help y’all stop dunking on yourselves with brilliant takes like “senate investigations are misogyny” and “democrats shouldn’t get more leverage to investigate sexual crimes”. twodot fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 23:19
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You guys are still talking about Franken? We're like 3 Democrats further than Franken now, that was last week's news. Now we're talking about the 264 victims of systematic sexual abuse and coverup in Congress.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:27
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NathanScottPhillips posted:You guys are still talking about Franken? We're like 3 Democrats further than Franken now, that was last week's news. Now we're talking about the 264 victims of systematic sexual abuse and coverup in Congress. nah, latest news is trump coming out as pro-pedophile roy moore how's that "the storm is coming" workin' out for ya, buddy
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Nov 21, 2017 23:27
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Ze Pollack posted:nah, latest news is trump coming out as pro-pedophile roy moore
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Nov 21, 2017 23:28
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But you see, if we just get Congress to investigate itself then everything will be solved.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:29
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NathanScottPhillips posted:That's a lie, there are no pedophiles in government. You guys told me so. you should probably read up on this roy moore character! groping fourteen-year-olds outside their moms' custody hearings, getting kicked out of alabama malls in the 1980s. it's some pretty impressive stuff. oh yeah, also trump endorsed him today
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Nov 21, 2017 23:31
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I think it would almost certainly be better for Franken, personally, if he resigned now. He wants an investigation because he thinks it will vindicate him, which seems very unlikely. I’m happy to let him have the investigation because I think a big public spectacle about sexual harassment and assault culminating in his resignation or removal has some benefits that we wouldn’t get if he just resigns right now for his family or whatever. Franken not resigning is a mistake for him and his family, and maybe for the democrats generally, but it’s a mistake I’m happy to let him make.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:31
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Ze Pollack posted:you should probably read up on this roy moore character! groping fourteen-year-olds outside their moms' custody hearings, getting kicked out of alabama malls in the 1980s. it's some pretty impressive stuff. tbh, i wouldn't be surprised if trump likes fourteen-year-olds too
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Nov 21, 2017 23:32
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Ze Pollack posted:you should probably read up on this roy moore character! groping fourteen-year-olds outside their moms' custody hearings, getting kicked out of alabama malls in the 1980s. it's some pretty impressive stuff.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:34
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NathanScottPhillips posted:Sorry Newsweek told me there are no pedophiles in government they just really like eating cheese pizza. looks like trump agrees, friend. and wishes to change that state of affairs. what's your take on the situation
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Nov 21, 2017 23:35
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Ze Pollack posted:looks like trump agrees, friend. and wishes to change that state of affairs. what's your take on the situation
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Nov 21, 2017 23:40
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NathanScottPhillips posted:Unlike you, I'm not a partisan ideological hack so I can experience schadenfreude when people on both sides of the isle are outed as sexual predators. Your mistake is thinking we are at the end, friend, we have only just ordered the pizza. it is fascinating watching the Obama disillusionment happening to Trump voters in real time the same desperate hope that no, really, THIS TIME authority's going to live up to my fantasies and do what my fantasy version of them would do, any day now he's going to sweep through washington like a scourge, and get rid of all the scum I hate. he's going to cash in all that political capital he's been building up for the last dozen times he disappointed us, and ring in a thousand years as god-emperor with it. except for liberals it was him selling out the public option, and for trump voters it's him endorsing a pedophile
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Nov 21, 2017 23:48
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Ze Pollack posted:it is fascinating watching the Obama disillusionment happening to Trump voters in real time
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Nov 21, 2017 23:56
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I hope you're not really trying to defend pizzagate, but in case you are I have to point out that it's always been most likely that pizzagate was a stupid conspiracy theory with no basis and nobody should have given it any attention AND that there are pedophiles in powerful political positions. Frankly I wasn't surprised when the brits found out about their pedophiles in power, I'd be even less surprised now to find another pedo coverup conspiracy at the top.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:31
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Futuresight posted:I hope you're not really trying to defend pizzagate, but in case you are I have to point out that it's always been most likely that pizzagate was a stupid conspiracy theory with no basis and nobody should have given it any attention AND that there are pedophiles in powerful political positions. Frankly I wasn't surprised when the brits found out about their pedophiles in power, I'd be even less surprised now to find another pedo coverup conspiracy at the top. nah, he is. while in this thread we are most familiar with the liberal versions of trump derangement syndrome- louise mensch, eric garland, etc- the Extremely Online trump supporters have built their own fanfictional universe to avoid the crushing disappointments of the real one. in this world, trump and whichever member of the supporting cast had the least recent public embarrassment are engaged in a shadow war with the Deep State, an organization of satanic pedophiles dedicated to preventing him from accomplishing anything at all costs. victory against this boogeyman is forever just one AMAZING REVELATION, one coded message to rise up away, at which point he will reveal his master plan, lock everyone who has ever hurt a conservative's feelings up, and finally get around to making america great again. when he goes on a bizarre tangent about whatever he saw on Fox and Friends five minutes ago, that's not a senile idiot repeating what the screen just told him. it's a call to arms for the faithful! american exceptionalism is a hell of a drug, it turns out. anything, to avoid confronting the reality of the president of the united states, Leader Of The Free World, being a demented fey socialite with the attention span of a toddler.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:40
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JeffersonClay posted:“democrats shouldn’t get more leverage to investigate sexual crimes”. It's this that people take issue with, you nitwit. You portrayed your original list as pragmatic reasons as to why Franken shouldn't resign and people rightly pointed out how fallacious and dumb this point is. Sure, the conversation has moved past that, but let's not forget what got us here.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:48
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okay let's do the big al franken investigation investigator: "al did you touch this woman against her consent" frnakin: "yes" investigator: "case closed kick his rapist rear end out" done and done, get to stepping you rapist piece of trash
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Nov 22, 2017 00:56
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C. Everett Koop posted:okay let's do the big al franken investigation It'll be worth it though. Because leverage. You know, that thing that requires your target have a sense of morality and justice?
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Nov 22, 2017 01:05
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