|
GeneX posted:Pascal and the kids' tinny voices kinda ruined the drama of the scene for me when I played This and the general image of tiny baby toy machines suddenly having tiny baby toy knifes they used to kill themselves with meant my first response to this was to laugh. The kinda laughing where you do it because you don't know how else to respond, but still.
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2017 23:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 17:50 |
|
|
tbh the mass suicide was a little overdramatic for my taste and it went way over the edge of tragedy into maudlin for me. Pascal's actor pouring her soul out was the only thing that stopped my eyes from rolling out of my sockets.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2017 23:04
|
|
It's okay, they just all became as gods. 
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2017 23:27
|
|
|
When I was playing through this with a friend, we had the high point of Pascal vs. Engels leading right into this. A2 stood there for the better part of half an hour while we players talked through what the 'right' answer was. Because...wow. Heavy decision. Extremely heavy decision. In the end, we went with the choice of killing Pascal. Not for the cash reward - Pascal's Core stayed firmly in A2's inventory as a memorial. But because wiping Pascal's memories was as good as killing him - the helpful friend was dead whichever choice we picked. The only reason to go with the memory wipe, from our standpoint...was to keep the image of Pascal around to make A2 feel better about things. In light of a request like this....that just seemed too selfish. So we had A2 grant the one mercy she knows how to grant. The mercy she's had to grant too many times. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2017 23:34
|
|
|
I spent the walk back to the factory figuring out what the cruelest thing that could happen was. "A machine got past us and killed them. No, they got the red-eye virus and killed each other.... no, they got the red-eye virus and we have to kill them. Yeah, that's probably it."
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2017 23:40
|
|
|
i just wiped his memory because thats what he asked. hes a machine so i doupt he can become depressed or something. it was a clearly thought out request and itd be stupid or cruel to not do as he asked. also its not about how you or i feel about it. its what pascal wants. he clearly prefers to excist still, just not with his memories.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2017 23:43
|
|
|
As soon as A2 and Pascal left the children alone, I knew those children were loving dead because  . The mass suicide was a nice twist, though. Props to Yoko Taro for keeping child murder fresh after all these years.Also I did the honorable thing and completely mindfucked Pascal into blissful ignorance.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2017 23:54
|
|
|
This game is real good. It should be taught.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2017 23:58
|
|
|
Knowing Taro games I knew those kids were good as dead, but I really wasn't prepared for the suicide. I deleted his memories.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 00:00
|
|
|
Where the heck did the kids find a big box of swords? How did they find them so fast?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 00:26
|
|
|
Ratoslov posted:Where the heck did the kids find a big box of swords? How did they find them so fast? Leftovers from the death cult?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 00:32
|
|
|
Ratoslov posted:Where the heck did the kids find a big box of swords? How did they find them so fast? Well, it was a suicide cult hotspot until very recently..
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 00:34
|
|
|
As someone whose greatest fear is losing my memories over time and just becoming a shell...yes. I absolutely mercy killed him. He was a good friend, I can't just ignore his requests. And I most definitely cannot erase his memories, that's...well, it's not an option for me! So yes, killing him was the only acceptable option to me. ...Hooey though, how 'bout them video games!? On a less depressing note: 
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 00:55
|
|
|
Current Crazy Train Status: Just rocketed past Child-Murder Station, everyone has been skeletonized due to air friction, and somehow it's still accelerating. Also that was the end of the line, so who knows where we're going next.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 01:03
|
|
|
Iretep posted:i just wiped his memory because thats what he asked. hes a machine so i doupt he can become depressed or something. it was a clearly thought out request and itd be stupid or cruel to not do as he asked. Something here seems contradictory in some way. This was easily one of the most painful parts of the game to me. Anyone who's already familiar with Yoko Taro's work expects something terrible to happen to the village sooner or later, but this conclusion goes so, so much further beyond... Keeping it fresh, like someone else said. Yeah, okay, maybe it's a little too dramatic, but I am soft and emotionally vulnerable, okay.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 01:03
|
|
|
Okay, I knew that bad poo poo was gonna happen to Pascal at some point (because Yoko Taro) but... drat. Just drat.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 01:24
|
|
|
Ratoslov posted:Where the heck did the kids find a big box of swords? How did they find them so fast? The Become As Kebabs supply store next door.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 01:26
|
|
|
Hearing Pascal go from pacifist to "I'll kill you! Kill all of you!" was more than the ending of that segment.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 01:30
|
|
|
Chillgamesh posted:tbh the mass suicide was a little overdramatic for my taste and it went way over the edge of tragedy into maudlin for me. Pascal's actor pouring her soul out was the only thing that stopped my eyes from rolling out of my sockets. Honestly, I agree. I was expecting to see some sort of consequences in terms of the deterioration of Pascal’s mental state - abandoning pacifism to become a killing machine should have had consequences of some sort. But to go straight into “and then all the kids killed themselves, because reasons” seems over-the-top and thematically subpar.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 01:33
|
|
|
euphronius posted:This game is real good. It should be taught. It gets even better.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 01:38
|
|
|
Yeah, this part messed me up. I just rushed to the next part of the main quest after this, hoping to find someone responsible for all the stuff happening to Pascal so that I could stab them until the feelings stopped. I think this was the only time that a game has legitimately made me furious from a story perspective (rather than the frustration coming from gameplay or the story being bad enough to make me angry). edit: Minor edits ShinyHero fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Nov 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 01:39
|
|
|
 Did we ever really expect a happy ending for the machine children with Yoko-Taro at the helm?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 01:46
|
|
|
David Corbett posted:Honestly, I agree. I was expecting to see some sort of consequences in terms of the deterioration of Pascal’s mental state - abandoning pacifism to become a killing machine should have had consequences of some sort. But to go straight into “and then all the kids killed themselves, because reasons” seems over-the-top and thematically subpar. It did, though. If he'd been with the kids, he could probably have talked them out of their hasty decision. Of course, they'd all have been killed by the actual flying armada of tanks, but
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 01:49
|
|
|
On the bright side, with the last bit of hope in the world thoroughly crushed we're free to dive headfirst down the rabbit hole  .
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 01:55
|
|
|
ThingOne posted:On the bright side, with the last bit of hope in the world thoroughly crushed we're free to dive headfirst down the rabbit hole Nier Automata route C in summary:
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 01:59
|
|
|
Gullwhacker posted:In the end, we went with the choice of killing Pascal. Not for the cash reward - Pascal's Core stayed firmly in A2's inventory as a memorial. But because wiping Pascal's memories was as good as killing him - the helpful friend was dead whichever choice we picked. Yeah this The Ghost of Ember posted:Removing Pascal's memories effectively killed the person he is now and was more or less asking for a type of assisted suicide. I also thought about the fact that the various spin off machine civilizations kept getting stuck in loops, and I realized Pascal sans memories was just going to rebuild his pacifist village with no memory of why it failed and just get a lot more machines and machine children killed by teaching the same flawed lessons. I wondered if the reason these civilizations never evolved or changed was because whenever they met with the type of crisis that left them needing a huge change in philosophy, they just deleted their memories of the crisis. and also this is why I'd have gone with just killing him if given the choice, or if not stuck in a video game with only three options, none of which involved any kind of comfort or support. Like someone else pointed out, Pascal abandoning his pacifism was showing growth of a kind we haven't seen in the machines before, and just resetting him is not only essentially the same thing as killing him, it's replacing him with a brand new person who will probably go on to make the same mistakes and suffer in the same way and then probably try to wipe and reset himself again the next time something traumatic happens. How many times has this happened? Who knows. (It's Yoko Taro so probably a lot...) I really hate memory wiping as a thing in fiction, or at least when it's treated as somehow preferable or different from death, because, it's really not. I wonder though if A2 would wipe her memories if she could? Or if she's able to and chose to go on living as she is that's significant, considering what she herself has been through.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 02:02
|
|
|
Sato-San: So we would like a giant robot fight. You said you had conditions? Burning down the one bastion of peace in the world Sato: Ok... Massacring its crazed inhabitantsSato: Is this your child-murder thing again Yoko? No, the children escape safely.Sato: And... then the giant robot fight? Sure, but the giant robot is piloted by someone who broke their iron-clad vow of pacifism in grief and rage at his loss.Sato: That's dark, but anime's do that all the ti- And then the children die.Sato: From the giant robo- Terror-induced suicideSato: Square-Enix's check cleared and you said you were picking up the bar tab tonight, gently caress it. Oh I didn't even get to what the pacifist does when he finds outSato: Please stop. *Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.*
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 02:07
|
|
|
Archenteron posted:Sato-San: So we would like a giant robot fight. You said you had conditions? Taro was told he needed to have a role in the game for Aoi Yuuki. He was just being polite and giving her a role he could be sure she'd be comfortable with.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 02:12
|
|
|
Nina posted:I'd like to present a cordial middle finger to those who walked away thinking "I'm a mature person and I decree Pascal should work out his problems and get over this" I've seen two playthroughs where the streamer chose to walk away from Pascal and I'll admit it made me mad. One was a guy who never played the Drakenier series before. The look on his face when he got here was, "This is some heavy poo poo", before walking out and acting as if he didn't want this to be his problem. The other was from Liam from TBFP and he was smiling smugly as he justified his decision by saying just because something horrible happened to Pascal doesn't mean he'd kill himself. This one made me angrier because the fucker just reduced the complete destruction of Pascal's people, his philosophy, his last hope and his treasure as "something horrible". The option isn't "let Pascal live and help him through this", it's "abandon Pascal to his grief", which is why I feel that wiping out his memories or killing him was the kinder option. Besides, we've seen prime examples of machines whose treasures were destroyed and had been left to deal with their grief on their own. Simone was crushed when she found out all her efforts at being beautiful were meaningless and went insane from it. Eve went off the deep end after Adam's death and had to be put down. Hell, he might be an android, but we're seeing it happen live with 9S as well.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 02:44
|
|
|
The more I think about this choice the more I struggle with it, but with my A2 cap on, I think I destroy Pascal rather than wipe his memories. It's not about "killing him anyway" or "which is kinder" in this mode of thought - rather, the worry is more about what it means to leave a depersonalized machine Pascal alive. This guy has just demonstrated a lot of firepower, and if he's going to revert to being part of the machine forces, I think it's better to eliminate him here rather than face him in combat. A2 isn't nice. She's an android on a mission of vengeance, defined by a history of loss and trauma herself, and I don't think this "be nice to the innocent machines" arc will have changed that substantively.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 02:46
|
|
|
Why no option for 'put Pascal's memories into a weapon'? It's clearly the best of all possible solutions, and one that A2 has experience with firsthand. And if it goes wrong, it'll kill him or mindwipe him, which is no worse than the other outcomes. Whoops, now he's spending eternity killing kids, and this is a weapon story!
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 02:53
|
|
|
Tunicate posted:Why no option for 'put Pascal's memories into a weapon'?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 03:00
|
|
|
Morals aside, the correct choice is erasing his memories.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 03:00
|
|
|
AndwhatIseeisme posted:Morals aside, the correct choice is erasing his memories. Of course you'd go for the mindfuck option, Nine-ze. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 03:16
|
|
|
This is the sort of choice where the more I think of it, the more I get frustrated with the limitations I'm given. You can't delete only some of Pascal's memories and you presumably don't get a quest to re-body the core and/or help Pascal deal with the trauma, so you're left with imagining your own ending, unless the game gets into it eventually. I had initially assumed memory wiping would leave us with regular green eyed Pascal minus any lessons learned, but someone brought up that it might be machine network Pascal, so who knows. Episode CXVIII The Dark Id posted:Boy... were where they hiding all of these machine children? Episode CXIX The Dark Id posted:a wide swing attack that while instantly annihilate anything in front Episode CXX The Dark Id posted:We are you going to follow Pascal’s first request
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 03:26
|
|
|
iospace posted:But all joking aside, that hit like a massive, loving truck. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 03:28
|
|
|
Tunicate posted:Why no option for 'put Pascal's memories into a weapon'? As fates worse than death for a pacifist to endure go, I'm sure Yoko would be kicking himself for not thinking of this. Maybe we'll get a weapon story in the next game. Also, going back to the village, I had a feeling something bad was coming the moment I first got there and saw the salvageable corpses of other players.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 03:48
|
|
|
And people thought a world of machines and androids would stop Yoko Taro from finding children to murder. I hope this journey has taught you all to have a little faith. 
Sindai fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Nov 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 03:54
|
|
|
I knew taking a break for a little while to drink in all the sadness at once when we got to this point would be ever so worth it 
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 03:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 17:50 |
|
|
I admit I didn't even consider abandoning Pascal when we were playing. It was a situation that deserved an answer - a difficult answer, and at least half of the final decision was driven by 'what would A2 choose?'. ... Given the already-mentioned examples of Eve and Simone, abandoning Pascal could have been very bad. I could see him, in grief and rage, deciding to double down on 'pacifism' and going on a quest to make sure this can never happen again. By destroying anything that could ever become a weapon. Yeah. That sounds like 'endboss made of your failings' territory. A grief-driven machine setting out to obliterate the weapons of war, with proven abilities to repair just about anything and to commandeer Engels-class Goliaths. Yeah. Uh. That'd be a bad day to be a weapon of war.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 04:47
|
|