|
Should we really be watching a movie about the god of thunder so soon after the tragic storms in Puerto Rico and Texas?
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 03:21 |
|
|
Honestly I think the much darker scene in the movie isnwhen Valkerie first shows up and kills like 20 people in cold blood with her giant drone strike dualie ship cannons. Unlike Skurg, who is protecting refugies from genocide, Valkerie is rolling up to a bunch of 3rd world scavengers, drunk, in her chrome space ship and murdering them all for profit. There's a really similar scene in Blade Runner 2049 which is presented as horrible and terrifying, while in Thor: Ragnarok, it's played almost for laughs. Now, I don't mind the dark humor, and the whole situation on Sakaar is presented as pretty hosed up and and unhealthy for everyone involved. And I totally understand with not wanting to see glamorized gun violence, but the MCU is not for you then. Iron Man, War Machine, The Winter Soldier, Crossbones, Black Widow, the Quinjet, the giant freaking NSA-Powered aircraft carrier gun platforms... Cap's friend with the wings... There's a ton of gun violence and military fetishization in the MCU. I'll give you that many of the heroes use less recognizable weapons, while normal guns are used by the bad guys. But again, this makes sense in the case of Skurg. He is a bad guy with bad guy weapons but in the end he uses them for a good purpose. At the end of the day, MCU movies are almost entirely about using violence to solve problems. Doctor Strange is the only one who isn't, and the direct removal of agency he inflicts isn't really less terrifying.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:08
|
|
|
I kinda didn't like the Skurge scene because he had too much ammo. This isn't because it's unrealistic, exactly -- it digs into a pet peeve of mine that goes all the way back to watching Masters of the Universe when I was like 10. There's a scene in there where one character just blows away a bunch of baddies with a shotgun. If guns are so good at killing the bad guy's mooks, I think it sorta devalues what the other heroes are doing and makes one wonder why everyone else is shooting cooler looking but way shittier laser pistols / hitting things with swords. I realize this is a personal, specific beef though. I was hoping he'd mow guys down for a couple seconds then run out of ammo and a have a 'oh these guns are STUPID' moment before switching to an axe because you never run outta muscles. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:19
|
|
|
Magic Hate Ball posted:Well, mass sword attacks are pretty rare, so... This is just a weird, knee-jerk reaction that ignores a whole lot. Like the act of seeing a gun in a movie is all it takes to drive some imbalanced people to real-life violence. This isn’t the case at all. It’s a certain mindset, that being violent and killing/hurting others to solve your problems makes you “badass” and “manly” and all that toxic masculinity stuff, that leads to these outbursts. Whether the hero is a gun-toting macho rear end in a top hat or a stoic katana-wielding stereotype is immaterial. You’re criticizing a film for what it’s showing and ignoring how it chooses to show it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:20
|
|
|
The Punisher panel at New York Comic Con was pulled, and the show's release was reportedly delayed due to its proximity to recent shootings. So I'm not sure why they couldn't have done something about that scene in Thor. It could have been edited out (maybe replaced with a very short CGI clip showing Skurge breaking the pillar with his axe to allow the ship to escape) and the movie would not have suffered one bit. I get it, his dual-wielding ARs pays homage to some 30+ year old scene from the comics and makes nerds giggle. But considering its lack of importance to the main plot (and the fact that Skurge's character was poorly developed in general, making his redemption feel hollow) it should have been left out IMO. Besides, his intro scene where he shows off the ARs could still remain, and it would be more than sufficient as a throwback.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:21
|
|
|
NmareBfly posted:I kinda didn't like the Skurge scene because he had too much ammo. I liked it, because it was another thing that reminded me of 80s action movies. Stallone and Arnold only have to reload when the scene requires it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:24
|
|
|
Snak posted:Honestly I think the much darker scene in the movie isnwhen Valkerie first shows up and kills like 20 people in cold blood with her giant drone strike dualie ship cannons. Nonsense, that scene is a great, sharp critique of capitalism and the brutal, discomforting bent underlines the actual grimness of the garbage planet. The worst offense of the Skurge scene is that's it's clumsy and vague, which is a side effect of the film trying and failing to be two movies at once by tacking on a quarter of another movie. He redeems his arc with gun violence, which could work if we'd spent more time with him, but since he comes across as a shallow side character, his Cool Gun Scene comes across as, at best, a flat distraction. Phylodox posted:This is just a weird, knee-jerk reaction that ignores a whole lot. Like the act of seeing a gun in a movie is all it takes to drive some imbalanced people to real-life violence. This isn’t the case at all. It’s a certain mindset, that being violent and killing/hurting others to solve your problems makes you “badass” and “manly” and all that toxic masculinity stuff, that leads to these outbursts. Whether the hero is a gun-toting macho rear end in a top hat or a stoic katana-wielding stereotype is immaterial. You’re criticizing a film for what it’s showing and ignoring how it chooses to show it. See above. Also, christ, it's just a criticism I have of the film, I'm not personally attacking you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:26
|
|
|
do undead warriors reincarnated by a mystical eternal flame still count as people?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:26
|
|
|
Magic Hate Ball posted:Nonsense, that scene is a great, sharp critique of capitalism and the brutal, discomforting bent underlines the actual grimness of the garbage planet. The worst offense of the Skurge scene is that's it's clumsy and vague, which is a side effect of the film trying and failing to be two movies at once by tacking on a quarter of another movie. He redeems his arc with gun violence, which could work if we'd spent more time with him, but since he comes across as a shallow side character, his Cool Gun Scene comes across as, at best, a flat distraction. Except it’s not really a criticism, like your apparent dislike of Chris Hemsworth. It’s you saying “I don’t like this for vaguely defined reasons”. In this case “gun violence”. Skurge’s arc is fine, actually, given that he’s a tertiary character. He’s boastful, superficial, and vainglorious. The scene where we’re shown this largely centres on him showing off his guns, clearly lampooning gun culture and toxic masculinity. The truth of his character is shown as soon as Hela shows up: he’s a coward and an opportunist. We’re shown him wanting to resist Hela, but not having the courage. In the end he chooses to selflessly risk (and sacrifice) his life as a true hero, and this also centres on his guns, nicely contrasting and bookending his character arc. Where once they were tools of self-aggrandizement, now they help him protect others and redeem himself. Because guns are just tools.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:37
|
|
|
Phylodox posted:Except it’s not really a criticism, like your apparent dislike of Chris Hemsworth. It’s you saying “I don’t like this for vaguely defined reasons”. In this case “gun violence”. Skurge’s arc is fine, actually, given that he’s a tertiary character. He’s boastful, superficial, and vainglorious. The scene where we’re shown this largely centres on him showing off his guns, clearly lampooning gun culture and toxic masculinity. The truth of his character is shown as soon as Hela shows up: he’s a coward and an opportunist. We’re shown him wanting to resist Hela, but not having the courage. In the end he chooses to selflessly risk (and sacrifice) his life as a true hero, and this also centres on his guns, nicely contrasting and bookending his character arc. Where once they were tools of self-aggrandizement, now they help him protect others and redeem himself. Because guns are just tools. Well, it doesn't sit right with me for all the reasons I've outlined, and I'm sorry that you disagree.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:37
|
|
|
Snak posted:I liked it, because it was another thing that reminded me of 80s action movies. Stallone and Arnold only have to reload when the scene requires it. Sure, I buy that. I just don't like it in general when modern tech guns are superior to whatever the hell everyone else is doing in sci fi stuff. The easy way to show that here would be with big ammo limitations. Also could have had the zombies not being phased by bullets but that would make Skurge's badass moment a lot less badass. Having him be very effective but only for 5 seconds would be best of both worlds for me. No big deal, scene was still cool. Did wonder where he was hiding the guns too but whateva.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:41
|
|
|
NmareBfly posted:Sure, I buy that. I just don't like it in general when modern tech guns are superior to whatever the hell everyone else is doing in sci fi stuff. The easy way to show that here would be with big ammo limitations. Also could have had the zombies not being phased by bullets but that would make Skurge's badass moment a lot less badass. Having him be very effective but only for 5 seconds would be best of both worlds for me. That's a fair criticism. I was not familiar with Skurge being a character from the comics and knew nothing about his arc going in. I thought it was great. His arc was better than any side character in Doctor Strange, for example. Not a high bar, I know. The Skurge scene initially reminded me of this:  which was funny to me because of this:  NmareBfly posted:No big deal, scene was still cool. Did wonder where he was hiding the guns too but whateva.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:49
|
|
|
There's nothing discomfiting about the movie's violence, since this a post-Man of Steel superhero movie, which was too successful in depicting war between superhumans and the catastrophe it would cause. Thus any uncomfortable violence is a no-go. This obviously presents a problem when you're trying to make movie about the Twilight of the Gods, the war of gods and monsters that consumes the whole world in blood and fire. Thus the movie has a mock-Ragnarok - I doubt that anyone went into the movie expecting it to have the balls to kill its thundering bore of a lead. They even cynically try to say that Asgard deserved to be destroyed for marginalizing women (this subplot seems to be here because a producer realizing that Wonder Woman was also coming out in 2017). Really, it had it coming because it's a very lame fantasy realm. Otherwise the movie seems to be a product of failed emulation. The action seems to go for Zack Snyder and Edgar Wright (the arena recalls the first evil ex-boyfriend fight in Scott Pilgrim vs the World), but Waititi doesn't have their eye for CGI and CGI-enhanced choreography. A lot of the time the characters fight like they're made out of ham. The costuming and set design evoke Kirby, but Kirby's idiot savant pop opera is fundamentally antithetical to the hegemonic irony and sarcasm of the Marvel brand. Besides, everyone knows that the real Kirby movie is Fritz Lang's Die Nibelungen, which pre-emptively adapted and improved upon Kirby's geometric, grotesque worlds of cosmic power, and even stole the thunder from Thor 3 with its Ragnarok-like ending. Thor: Ragnarok presents the same dishonest combination of sentimentality and irony as previous Marvel movies, perfectly embodied in how the previously boorish but just slightly dignified Thor now speaks in the same combination of self-absorbed trivialities and mumbling sarcasm as Tony Stark and Star-Lord. Like in previous Thor movies, anyone who isn't CGI or an earthling looks like a cosplayer. The only interesting part of Thor: Ragnarok is that the long middle sequence on Sakaar is an extended homage to Attack of the Clones (holograms, gladiatorial matches, journeys in glass elevators, airborne chases across a far-future metropolis). The point of this homage is a bit mystifying, and it's not like any of it is better than Clones, since the movie doesn't have Lucas's occasionally charming combination of brilliance and stupidity. 
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Dec 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:52
|
|
|
HULK HATE SAND
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 21:54
|
|
|
Wanna see this 2 more times and cheer for every scene with a gun.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 22:17
|
|
|
so other than guns, do Asgardians not have any ranged weapons or what why was Hela charged by a bunch of spearmen instead of shot full of arrows, or maybe with one of those laser cannons they used against the dark elf spacecraft in the second movie
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
It bites that the big, radical valkyrie attack was just a flashback. She was a good villain and deserved more actual valkyrie stuff, tbh - the mythical elements are cool and fun. Gimme more flying horses or whatever that was, play up the Wagnerian stuff.Dr. Tim Whatley posted:Wanna see this 2 more times and cheer for every scene with a gun. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 22:36
|
|
|
Yeah that Valkyrie flashback was really cool. edit: I just really like how the whole movie evoked like, book covers from the 70s-80s Like this poo poo:   Snak fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Nov 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2017 22:37
|
|
|
Love 2 critique capitalism, that's what all these major profit seeking multi hundred million dollar IP cinematic universes are doing, critiquing capitalism.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 00:02
|
|
|
NmareBfly posted:I realize this is a personal, specific beef though. I was hoping he'd mow guys down for a couple seconds then run out of ammo and a have a 'oh these guns are STUPID' moment before switching to an axe because you never run outta muscles.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 00:35
|
|
|
Snak posted:Yeah that Valkyrie flashback was really cool. Ahaha my dad’s is a huge sci-fi nerd so I absolutely spent my gay little childhood gawking at these covers and completely missing the point.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 00:41
|
|
|
sleep with the vicious posted:Love 2 critique capitalism, that's what all these major profit seeking multi hundred million dollar IP cinematic universes are doing, critiquing capitalism.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 02:16
|
|
|
Ravenfood posted:I just assumed the massive extra ammo was because Asgardians do actually seem to have bizarre magic powers sometimes despite the first Thor movie telling us that they just have space-science, so Skurge being a weird demi-god of guns (pretty sure every weapon in his little collection at the beginning was a firearm of kind) would totally be able to make them keep firing for longer than normal. It didn't seem odd at all. He’s part 40k ork.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 02:24
|
|
|
He had a Vespa in there too.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 03:21
|
|
|
Mameluke posted:He had a Vespa in there too. Vespas can be missile weapons too 
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 03:40
|
|
|
He totally rode the Vespa along the Bifrost to work and back.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 03:47
|
|
|
Vegetable posted:Death of the studio, mate Heat Death of Anyone Involved in Anything and you can say you "read" anything you want into anything
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 04:08
|
|
|
sleep with the vicious posted:Heat Death of Anyone Involved in Anything and you can say you "read" anything you want into anything
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 04:12
|
|
|
Taika was obviously critiquing colonialism, it's not that much of a stretch to read some critique of capitalism in there too.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 04:22
|
|
|
LingcodKilla posted:He’s part 40k ork. Yeah, basically that's how I interpreted it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 04:46
|
|
|
Just saw this today, and had a great time. It's got some fantastic cinematography. I was especially appreciative of the final battle, which played out like the motion picture equivalent of 70's airbrushed van art.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 05:18
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:The Punisher panel at New York Comic Con was pulled, and the show's release was reportedly delayed due to its proximity to recent shootings. So I'm not sure why they couldn't have done something about that scene in Thor. It could have been edited out (maybe replaced with a very short CGI clip showing Skurge breaking the pillar with his axe to allow the ship to escape) and the movie would not have suffered one bit. That might be because of the domestic terrorism in Punisher rather than the gun violence.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2017 07:55
|
|
|
To most people outside of America they're just guns, not specific guns that have been used for specific things. As was said before he's being a stereotype of an American. If you're mad that it's so soon after a mass shooting then there could never be guns in films again because there's a mass shooting in your lunatic nation every single day.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 09:30
|
|
|
We don't give citizenship for flattery.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 09:39
|
|
|
Taear posted:To most people outside of America they're just guns, not specific guns that have been used for specific things. They should replace all guns with Walkie talkies, cigarettes with lollipops and boobies with cgi t shirts with polka dots or the american flag. Call it the “freedom cut” of the film. Would auto make it pg and thus more sales inside the US. Let the rest of us watch the real version of course. Makes everyone happy I guess. Just saw this movie and it was great. Can’t think of a weak member of the cast. Every moment the brothers were on screen was gold; although I have to confess a giant crush on Hiddleston. I get a sad feeling about Loki in the future movies... just a hunch.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 05:19
|
|
|
Some bits and pieces of scenes are floating around youtube now, just saw "Loki look who it is!" again and it still cracks me up
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 11:53
|
|
|
Oh hang on, Thor had his Mjølnumbrella outside the nursing home? I missed that, I thought it was Strange's doing. Kinda weird thing to put in without a comment, wonder if they deleted a line.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Dec 2, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 14:21
|
|
|
Now I've gone down a rabbithole of VFX blogs. Neat, apparently this was the Hela costume worn on set:  And they had those tracking markers on it, and then her body was entire replaced with CG in the film, but they could use the data off the similar-to-the-CG-costume to inform the lighting and material and feel as well as simple tracking (with I'm guessing the added bonus of being better for the actors to act against and not making Cate Blanchett feel ridiculous in a mocap suit for the entire film). Hela's little reach-up-to-her-head to grow the headdress thing was actually just them covering up that they had no idea how to make the initial transition look decent so they came up with a gesture to use her hands to cover it up and Blanchett worked it into being a deliberate character note. Speaking of CG characters, any time Thor was Lightning Thor (they called it UberThor) he was entirely CG, Hemsworth filmed that in a mocap checkerboard suit and then they keyed the digital Hemsworth onto his performance. Also confirmed that the Commodore:  was a tribute to this:  Also the big evac ship was the Statesman and Topaz's ship was the Torana. All holdens. Random shot: 
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Dec 2, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 14:39
|
|
|
Was it just me, or did her antler headdress wiggle around sometimes? It kinda looked like a big spider in waiting and I hope I wasn't imagining that because it'd be uber dope if that was the case.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 03:21 |
|
|
Spider was definitely an animal motif I was thinking of. (Could blame the last Phoenix Wright game) Might fit a bit with Loki having a bit of a snake motif, though dunno what that makes Thor. Frog?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 17:50
|
|