|
The profits of Google and Amazon's services could evaporate instantly if they suddenly need to negotiate internet bandwidth on behalf of clients and customers wanting anything to do with distributed services etc. A lot of their developing business portfolio is built on assuming internet traffic is a neutral platform so they aren't exactly in it as humanitarians.
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 14:17 |
|
|
SeeRagnarokAngel posted:Enemy of my enemy and all that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 01:41
|
|
|
Choco1980 posted:The weirdest thing about the whole net neutrality thing going on right now is how the underdog types in the fight are still super wealthy corporations like Google and Facebook. Basically, one group of selfish rich assholes want to screw over a bunch of other people for money. Some of the people getting screwed are voting american citizens, who obviously don't matter and can safely be ignored. But some of the others are groups of other rich assholes, who will fight to protect their own wallets and incidentally protect the citizens as an unintended side effect.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 04:12
|
|
|
RPATDO_LAMD posted:Basically, one group of selfish rich assholes want to screw over a bunch of other people for money. Some of the people getting screwed are voting american citizens, who obviously don't matter and can safely be ignored. But some of the others are groups of other rich assholes, who will fight to protect their own wallets and incidentally protect the citizens as an unintended side effect. exactly. A far more eloquent explanation about why the whole drat thing is weird to me.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 07:46
|
|
|
Mu Zeta posted:I know that in some countries like Australia that they don't have net neutrality. So ISPs will offer a limited amount of bandwidth per month but for certain specific services like Steam or iTunes they will offer unlimited service. It's a nightmare scenario and I'm afraid the US will follow in their footsteps. I was with an ISP called iiNet for quite a while because they offered quote-free Xbox Live/ABC iView/Gaming File server site downloads while other ISP would of counted using those services towards your monthly download allowance. Incentives like that are still around for capped plans/prepaid but they've never been GIVE US EXTRA $$$ AND WE'LL GIVE YOU FULL SPEED TO YOUTUBE With more and more NBN rollouts happening you have a generic More $$$ = More Speed, but again it's not specifically kneecapping bandwidth/outright blocking a certain service and dangling it in front of you for extra cash.  The nightmare scenario was how long it took for Unlimited plans to be common place at a non-ransom prices.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 10:56
|
|
|
I have iiNet 100mbps NBN unlimited, but I told them I was only signing up for a month and if the speed sucked I was going somewhere else. It's great, never been below 91 at peak times. And I guess that's a luxury I have, where I can shop around for ISPs, most Americans don't have that with either Verizon or Time Warner, and literally no-one else available.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 11:10
|
|
|
Both sides (Amazon/Google versus AT&T/Verizon) would love to use the law to limit newcomers and start-ups, so you can't really trust either one. I wonder if a scorched Earth policy would work. For example, Verizon wants the ability to restrict or modify access, so maybe Google blocks Verizon traffic for a little while. It hurts Google's bottom line, but it kills Verizon and serves as a warning to other ISP's. TV broadcasters and cable channels use that tactic all the time. It pisses off consumers, but we probably need more pissed off consumers.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 12:55
|
|
|
Christ, are these common US prices? And capped bandwidth? What is this, the middle ages?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 13:21
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:Christ, are these common US prices? And capped bandwidth? What is this, the middle ages? Croccers posted:I was with an ISP called iiNet quote:iiNet Limited is Australia's second-largest internet service provider
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 13:28
|
|
|
100 Australian dollars is still terrible for guaranteed 12Mbps, and even worse is $30 for an ultra-slow capped connection.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 13:32
|
|
|
I'm in the US and pay $70 for gigabit fiber unlimited through a local company called Sonic. The other options are ATT (slow as gently caress) and Comcast (gently caress Comcast). No Verizon or Time Warner available here, though I wish it were possible so there would be more competition.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 13:36
|
|
|
Krispy Wafer posted:Both sides (Amazon/Google versus AT&T/Verizon) would love to use the law to limit newcomers and start-ups, so you can't really trust either one. Why would it kill Verizon? All those people who can't ditch Verizon will be stuck using Verizon's own lovely search engine, their own video streaming service etc. If they don't have one now they'll come out with their own shortly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 15:31
|
|
|
To give you an idea what one new player does to a market, when Google first started competing against Cox with their 1gb service, the cable company went into a tizzy trying to ramp up their product line. The final product cost about $100 a month and I think we lost money on it, but Cox couldn't risk losing high-end market share to a newcomer. So it does make a difference. AT&T's been kind of boned. They insisted on doing copper to the house while Verizon laid fiber. This worked fine when you intermittently streamed and had maybe 2 computers in a house. It sucks when everyone has a pocket PC and they're streaming everything. For a while they even marketed their U-Verse product as "all the speed you need" because they were about 1/3rd the speed of a Comcast pipe. But they're finally laying fiber so you can choose evil AT&T over evil Comcast. cakesmith handyman posted:Why would it kill Verizon? All those people who can't ditch Verizon will be stuck using Verizon's own lovely search engine, their own video streaming service etc. If they don't have one now they'll come out with their own shortly. Telecoms are all about fixed costs. They make their profit off the last 5 to 10% of their customers because the cost of providing the services eats up the rest. That's still a lot of money, but it makes losing customers very painful. And the users who can afford to leave are also the high profit ones who buy HBO and Showtime or who have unlimited data phone plans bundled in with their services. Losing them would hurt even more. It wouldn't kill Verizon exactly, but it'd make them rethink their Net Neutrality stance. The trick would be to punish one ISP so severely others wouldn't try the same. It's like punching the biggest guy you see on your first day in prison. There's a lot of risk to Amazon, Netflix, or Google and it might not even be legal, but it sure would be interesting to watch happen. Krispy Wafer has a new favorite as of 15:44 on Nov 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 15:36
|
|
|
AT&T fiber cannot come to my neighborhood quickly enough. Comcast’s actual product is decent, though a bit expensive; However the entire process to get it installed was a train wreck, because they insist on using untrained, inexperienced contractors instead of actual techs. The “crew” that showed up to bury my temporarily-surface-laid connection (all the utilities in this neighborhood are subsurface) was literally an old guy that didn’t speak a word of English, in a beat up Nissan Sentra, with a single shovel. He scooped some leaves over the cable, called it good, and left. gently caress Comcast.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 15:45
|
|
|
cakesmith handyman posted:Why would it kill Verizon? All those people who can't ditch Verizon will be stuck using Verizon's own lovely search engine, their own video streaming service etc. If they don't have one now they'll come out with their own shortly. It wouldn't kill them, but at worst it would balkanize the hell out of the internet. In major cities you'd get your pick of the ISPs, live in anything smaller and you're stuck with much more limited, and usually bad options. Don't like being on COX, well your other option is AT&T  It's also not like Google or Amazon couldn't get into the ISP business (Google did for a while in the later '00s), but without net neutrality your provider can basically filter anything they want out, or charge you more because *capitalism*. Pray that you don't end up with a provider that has a "Christian values" CEO because you can kiss Porn Hub goodbye.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 15:48
|
|
|
In Canada most parts of the country have at least 3 ISPs but they just collude and price fix, so lol if you think that competition will prevent these big-capital businesses from not loving over the consumers. They'll just ally against their mutual enemy - the public.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 15:55
|
|
|
cakesmith handyman posted:Why would it kill Verizon? All those people who can't ditch Verizon will be stuck using Verizon's own lovely search engine, their own video streaming service etc. If they don't have one now they'll come out with their own shortly. It's called Yahoo
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:100 Australian dollars is still terrible for guaranteed 12Mbps, and even worse is $30 for an ultra-slow capped connection. I'm lucky myself, I have the mid-tier one there and I'm actually capping out at the max speed (25mbps), there's a good chance that if I went with the higher tier I'd get that speed. But holy hell look at that swing. Between 5 and 25. Between 12 and 100.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 21:10
|
|
|
Data caps on home internet is something I have a hard time wrapping my head around. Like, the idea that you could use up your internet for the month is mind boggling to me. What if you work from home or telecommute? Are you just SOL? Do they turn you off completely when you hit that limit?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 22:46
|
|
|
Moon Slayer posted:Data caps on home internet is something I have a hard time wrapping my head around. Like, the idea that you could use up your internet for the month is mind boggling to me. What if you work from home or telecommute? Are you just SOL? Do they turn you off completely when you hit that limit? Some ISPs/plans throttle you down to dial‐upesque speeds. Some tack a charge on your bill and continue as normal.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 22:50
|
|
|
My dad had this idiot plan with Plusnet where it was unlimited Internet, but only between midnight and 8am. The allowance for the month outside those times was 80gb, and pretty badly throttled; if I had a torrent running you could see the dl speed literally double as the clock hit 00.00. You could buy more daytime data for something like £2 per gb. Funnily enough I didn't really get into Steam until after I moved out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 22:59
|
|
|
Moon Slayer posted:Data caps on home internet is something I have a hard time wrapping my head around. Like, the idea that you could use up your internet for the month is mind boggling to me. What if you work from home or telecommute? Are you just SOL? Do they turn you off completely when you hit that limit? Speed throttling. The old plan I had put you to 512k when you went over. I've seen people in the USA talking about how they used to have unlimited plans, but that now data caps are being introduced there as well. And I know 95mbps is chicken feed compared to what a lot of people have, but when you're coming from 5-6mbps, it's like a revelation. I get to play video games now that would have otherwise taken like a whole week of leaving my PC on overnight to download. I bought rear end.Creed Origins the other day, went for a run, had a shower and ate dinner and it was ready to play.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
95Mbps sounds fine to me. I'm on about 80Mbps and I don't really need more.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 23:14
|
|
|
Moon Slayer posted:Data caps on home internet is something I have a hard time wrapping my head around. Like, the idea that you could use up your internet for the month is mind boggling to me. What if you work from home or telecommute? Are you just SOL? Do they turn you off completely when you hit that limit?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 23:27
|
|
|
Memento posted:Speed throttling. The old plan I had put you to 512k when you went over. It's kind of like money. There's a massive, massive functional difference between like 20k and 100k per year or dial up and 100Mbps speeds but it tapers off in usefulness. Literally the only useful thing I can think of for gigabit speed internet would be downloading games from steam but as it is it takes me less than an hour for even the largest games I've downloaded so far. I guess if you have a huge family all streaming stuff at once but I can stream 4 or 5 different HD things at once as it is without any issue so  I think datacaps are a more dangerous thing than not having super fast speed. Right now my datacap is 1024GB and I use somewhere between 200-400 per month and I can definitely see Comcast slowly dropping that number over time. Garrand has a new favorite as of 23:46 on Nov 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2017 23:43
|
|
|
Memento posted:And I know 95mbps is chicken feed compared to what a lot of people have, but when you're coming from 5-6mbps, it's like a revelation. I get to play video games now that would have otherwise taken like a whole week of leaving my PC on overnight to download. I bought rear end.Creed Origins the other day, went for a run, had a shower and ate dinner and it was ready to play. I would kill for 5 mbps eright now L(
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 00:07
|
|
|
Haifisch posted:On top of the throttling, expect a "well, it turns out we have this LOVELY business tier plan(that costs double the normal rate)..." if you call to complain about it & say you need it for work.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 03:01
|
|
|
Data caps are terrible. I was in a marketplace where Comcast was testing 300gb caps. 4 people using Netflix during summer break meant I blew through my cap around day 7 of a 31 day month. We had to dial down streaming quality to something like VHS. To add insult to injury, Comcast injects HTML warnings into your web browsing to warn you as you hit various bandwidth triggers. One time this HTML injection managed to lock up my modem and pretty much hosed my internet for 2 days. When I called they tried to upsell me on unlimited bandwidth, which I filed a FCC complaint about. It didn't go anywhere, but a Comcast manager later reached out to me so someone did get contacted and Comcast had to show that they weren't deliberately shutting people's internet down to upsell them services when they called tech support. That was back when the FCC actually functioned as a regulatory agency.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 05:20
|
|
|
Krispy Wafer posted:Data caps are terrible. I was in a marketplace where Comcast was testing 300gb caps. 4 people using Netflix during summer break meant I blew through my cap around day 7 of a 31 day month. We had to dial down streaming quality to something like VHS. You mean regulatory agencies didn't always exist to do what the big corporations wanted?
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 05:26
|
|
|
Len posted:You mean regulatory agencies didn't always exist to do what the big corporations wanted? In other countries, they actually exist to tell big corporations to pull their heads in! Game over for Sony Playstation quote:The Federal Court has established the right of Sony PlayStation owners to have their games consoles 'chipped'.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 05:35
|
|
|
Choco1980 posted:The weirdest thing about the whole net neutrality thing going on right now is how the underdog types in the fight are still super wealthy corporations like Google and Facebook. This is what happens when AAA Corps go at it, Personaly I'm hoping for the NRA to swoop in and offer free wifi and unlimited data with ever AK-47.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 05:39
|
|
|
Remember when one of the FCC people pushed for the merger of NBC/Comcast to move faster, and then she quit the FCC and joined Comcast. https://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/f-c-c-commissioner-to-join-comcast/
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 05:39
|
|
|
Is there a US net neutrality thread?
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 08:23
|
|
|
Grassy Knowles posted:It's called Yahoo I, I think I'd just go outside and have a life instead.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 10:54
|
|
|
Turtlicious posted:This is what happens when AAA Corps go at it, Personaly I'm hoping for the NRA to swoop in and offer free wifi and unlimited data with ever AK-47. Oh I know. It's still weird though. If it didn't affect us consumers so heavily and badly, I'd almost enjoy it happening just to see these megabillion corporations pretty much actively go to war against each other.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 14:13
|
|
|
gently caress I love our courts sometimes. Reminds me of when Steam had to be dragged kicking and screaming to offer refunds for games that straight up didn't work, or the infamous Dallas Buyers Club saga.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 14:37
|
|
|
Whitlam posted:... infamous Dallas Buyers Club saga. ?
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 14:45
|
|
|
Edit : Wrong thread.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 14:50
|
|
|
I want to say he's talking about regulatory agencies and ATZ availability during the early days of the AIDS epidemic. But if there's a Dallas Buyer's Club video game I think I want to play it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 14:17 |
|
|
I think he means the studio that was behind Dallas Buyers Club attempted to sue Aussies who pirated the film by trying to get ISPs to hand over any ids of whomever matched the ip addresses they had. Aussie law with pirated stuff generally means if you get caught you pay the dollar amount of the worth of the item, so say $35 per copy you had. We don't have speculative invoicing as a legal tactic here so their case was thrown out because they were intending to charge people insane amounts based on theoretical numbers based on the idea they seeded it to 100,000 people. They tried this in Singapore and were told no. There were successful settlements in the states.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 17:21
|
|
