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so basically the same reasoning that liberals give for "suddenly" aligning with neocons. lmao
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Nov 30, 2017 05:01
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As JC Denton, I was willing to ally with the right-wing militia the National Secessionist Forces, the Mole People living under NYC, the Luminous Path Triads, and the remnants of the Illuminati in order to stop Bob Page and Majestic 12 from using 3D printing to make himself God. It was a difficult pill for me to swallow, I admit, but I felt that all these groups had credible reasons for opposing the VersaLife Corporation. I can, reluctantly, align my values with those of fictional right-wingers to topple a fictional authority, and only hope that I can be IRL forgiven for doing so.
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Nov 30, 2017 05:16
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Bieeardo posted:That's how you zero in on the truth in the middle, duh. Beat me to it. It feels a lot like a very political premise trying very hard not to be political. Trying to treat fascism as a neutral ideology seems... not... like... actual... fascism? 
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Nov 30, 2017 05:54
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Yeah ok this guy doesn't appear to know much about the history of armed revolutions. You'd think he'd have done some research instead of just asking an evangelical libertarian to fill him in. Going to give this project a pass.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:18
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Liquid Communism posted:Anyone know much about the COIN system? They're all roughly about "solid" state power interacting with "fluid" power. All the games have four factions doing different kinds of actions in each game, using events drawn from the real history. There's bots if you don't have enough players. Ask in the board games or wargames thread.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:33
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Covok posted:Armed resistance against against state tyranny is very right wing. Hahaha Covok posted:I was forced to consider how political groups that I absolutely hate in real life were well-intentioned and even heroic in certain ways. Hahahaha Covok posted:The Receivers (players) will have to navigate this gray space strategically, not emotionally, if the want to defeat the enemy. PCs of diametrically opposed moral/political affiliations can be forced together in any goddamn game. This isn't clever and years of mixed Lawful Good/Chaotic Evil D&D parties should tell someone that in practice it's usually tiresome and ends up with half the PCs dying in an unrewarding, anticlimactic manner no matter now *rational* you're being about it.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:43
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Guy Goodbody posted:It says you work with right wing militias. There's no basically such thing as a non-nazi right wing militia There were, once upon a time. They died off in the Obama era with the birth and radicalization of the alt-right and the subsequent co-opting of the militias, but until recently it was very possible to find right-wing militias that held a dogma opposed to government totalitarianism on both sides, not just 'left = bad, right = good, trump = great'. Whether they'd actually stand up and fight against it or just acquiesce was always murky, to say the least, but I think this pitch may just be a remnant of the halcyon days in the early 2000s (there was a big shift in membership after McVeigh, and when Bush got in it shifted again to a more complacent stance) when the militia movement was mostly fat dudes and crazy guys who gave the neo-nazi compounds the side-eye for being too extreme, not an actual part of the extreme-right playbook called in as backup for rallies and getting in armed stand-offs with democratic governments.
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Nov 30, 2017 07:11
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When did right-wingers become Nazis? Aren´t Nazis as in National Socialists, derived from the german word Nazi for NAtionalsoZIalist a very specific, also focused on antisemitism and genocidal eugenic theory, a very specific branch of right-wing extremism? Or is this just general internet behaviour which mixes everything into samey words just to get an "US vs THEM" out of it?
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Nov 30, 2017 09:57
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Mr.Misfit posted:When did right-wingers become Nazis? Aren´t Nazis as in National Socialists, derived from the german word Nazi for NAtionalsoZIalist a very specific, also focused on antisemitism and genocidal eugenic theory, a very specific branch of right-wing extremism? Or is this just general internet behaviour which mixes everything into samey words just to get an "US vs THEM" out of it? Seriously? We're gonna go with "but the dictionary says" here?
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Nov 30, 2017 10:11
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Mr.Misfit posted:When did right-wingers become Nazis? Aren´t Nazis as in National Socialists, derived from the german word Nazi for NAtionalsoZIalist a very specific, also focused on antisemitism and genocidal eugenic theory, a very specific branch of right-wing extremism? Or is this just general internet behaviour which mixes everything into samey words just to get an "US vs THEM" out of it? When they started espousing just those values. Have you been living on the goddamn moon for the last six months, and somehow missed the no-poo poo white supremacists waving torches and chanting Nazi slogans at protests?
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Nov 30, 2017 10:15
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i'm pretty sure any post that uses ´ instead of ' is a Copy Paste.
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Nov 30, 2017 10:18
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This is your chance to back out and play it off like a gag in case you are that dumb btw
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Nov 30, 2017 10:19
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Don’t forget that same quality poster was one of the Kingdom Death defenders in here recently.
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Nov 30, 2017 10:21
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Dang they're either committed to being ironically dumb or are just plain dumb. Not a great option select either way. Though I cling to hope eternal that someone did not earnestly use a ´.
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Nov 30, 2017 10:22
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Mr.Misfit posted:When did right-wingers become Nazis? Aren´t Nazis as in National Socialists, derived from the german word Nazi for NAtionalsoZIalist a very specific, also focused on antisemitism and genocidal eugenic theory, a very specific branch of right-wing extremism? Or is this just general internet behaviour which mixes everything into samey words just to get an "US vs THEM" out of it? Source your quotes
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Nov 30, 2017 12:43
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Loomer posted:There were, once upon a time. Such as the 80s?
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Nov 30, 2017 13:19
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Mr.Misfit posted:When did right-wingers become Nazis? Aren´t Nazis as in National Socialists, derived from the german word Nazi for NAtionalsoZIalist a very specific, also focused on antisemitism and genocidal eugenic theory, a very specific branch of right-wing extremism? Or is this just general internet behaviour which mixes everything into samey words just to get an "US vs THEM" out of it? When did the Democratic People's Republic of Korea stop being democratic? When did "cow pie" stop being a pie and start being poop? Wait, hot dogs aren't made out of dog?
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Nov 30, 2017 13:24
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Mr.Misfit posted:When did right-wingers become Nazis? Aren´t Nazis as in National Socialists, derived from the german word Nazi for NAtionalsoZIalist a very specific, also focused on antisemitism and genocidal eugenic theory, a very specific branch of right-wing extremism? Or is this just general internet behaviour which mixes everything into samey words just to get an "US vs THEM" out of it? The American right-wing has been successfully mainstreaming white nationalist rhetoric for decades now but the election of Barak Obama really helped. It's fascinating, so maybe go read up on that
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Nov 30, 2017 13:27
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Subjunctive posted:Such as the 80s? Eh, you had a lot of crossover with the nazis in the 80s. McVeigh lead to a shakeup and a distancing of a lot of militias from the Christian ID nutjobs they'd been rubbing cheeks with in the late 80s and early 90s. When the War on Terror kicked off the numbers decline that started late in Clinton and continued in the first year of Bush ended and a lot more 'reasonable' right wingers joined up - I use the quotation marks because a lot of them were xenophobic dickheads - so the early 2000s was a pretty good time to find right-wing and even a few left-wing militias that might have actually taken arms against a fascist overthrow, with the nazis having been given the stinkeye and the influx of relatively moderate members. That declined during the rest of Bush though and when Obama got in the whole movement (and a large part of the entire conspiracy world, sad to say) began its really, really hard return to the far right.
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Nov 30, 2017 13:42
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Liquid Communism posted:When they started espousing just those values. Have you been living on the goddamn moon for the last six months, and somehow missed the no-poo poo white supremacists waving torches and chanting Nazi slogans at protests? I´m not an american and most news sources I watch/consume aren´t very us-centric, so I don´t see that much about it in the news. What I do see is very white-supremacist stuff and racial conflicts. I admittedly might have missed the move towards nazism. I just like things labeled correctly and fascists, rightists (seriously, is there no good way to say that like leftists?) and nazis aren´t always the same. Sorry if I offended, for I did not mean to. @DigitalRaven I don´t understand. How am I to source that? Errhh..."Brockhaus General Lexika 2011 Edition"? @dwarf74 It´s not about the metaphorical meaning but the idea that specific things can mean and carry very specific things/connotations. @ Arivia Defending Kingdom Death and therefore declaring my opinion consequently bad irregardless is bad form. I was "defending Kingdom Death" on the idea that "just because someone doesn´t like it doesn´t mean it doesn´t have validity to exist". Following your train of thought would mean we´d ban most works of fiction and/or games because they are offensive to someone. I don´t think that a healthy democratic society should have need to do that :/ @ Nuns with Guns I did not know that. Thank you, I will. Edit: In other news, Changeling has still 14 days to go and about doubled it´s needed amount. RPG.Net is currently doing a Membership drive (not exactly TG but TG-related at least) and I accidentally misread this as Tomb of Horros, but FGG has already accomplished their Goal on Tome of Horrors. Mr.Misfit fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 13:59
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Mr.Misfit posted:I´m not an american and most news sources I watch/consume aren´t very us-centric, so I don´t see that much about it in the news. What I do see is very white-supremacist stuff and racial conflicts. I admittedly might have missed the move towards nazism. I just like things labeled correctly and fascists, rightists (seriously, is there no good way to say that like leftists?) and nazis aren´t always the same. Sorry if I offended, for I did not mean to. You are clearly the most sheltered creature on these dead forums. 60,000 white supremacists and Neo Nazis marching in Warsaw two weeks ago also flew over your head. You should probably not comment on anything political if you are so oblivious to the news as to carry water for people calling for a new wave of religious and racially motivated genocide, only to claim ignorance as a defense when called on it.
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Nov 30, 2017 14:21
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The rise of neonazis across the world in right wing politics (and particularly the alt right, ie, nazism cloaked just enough to be acceptable to more moderate right wing groups) hasn’t been exactly subtle, yeah. You are either sheltered as gently caress, stupid or willfully dense. E: for the record, my money is on 2 and 3. Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 14:38
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Mr.Misfit posted:I was "defending Kingdom Death" on the idea that "just because someone doesn´t like it doesn´t mean it doesn´t have validity to exist". Following your train of thought would mean we´d ban most works of fiction and/or games because they are offensive to someone. Unless I missed something and a government is threatening to ban KD, this isn't an issue of censorship. Boycotting a product (and encouraging others to for any reason, logical or emotional) isn't censorship, it's just people exercising their free speech to call something poo poo because they personally believe it's poo poo. Trying to argue that commercial works deserve to be profitable is a weird position to take, and it's super weird to feel the need to defend KD in particular, considering it is completely free from editorial or publisher oversight. Unless you are worried the creator will change his views based on what people are saying, I can't see how anyone can 'ban' him from doing anything. KD:M has raised well over $15M total just based on the two Kickstarters alone (and not counting the webstore where - just as one example - 125 $150 models sold out in under 30 minutes recently). It's safe to say, he's not under any financial pressure to curb his creative tone. The only reason criticism could affect his artwork would be if he found himself agreeing with the arguments and chose to alter his art direction, and that's a far cry from anything resembling a 'ban'. HazCat fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 14:40
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Liquid Communism posted:You are clearly the most sheltered creature on these dead forums. 60,000 white supremacists and Neo Nazis marching in Warsaw two weeks ago also flew over your head. Mors Rattus posted:The rise of neonazis across the world in right wing politics (and particularly the alt right, ie, nazism cloaked just enough to be acceptable to more moderate right wing groups) hasn’t been exactly subtle, yeah. You are either sheltered as gently caress, stupid or willfully dense. HazCat posted:Unless I missed something and a government is threatening to ban KD, this isn't an issue of censorship. I get it. I´m an idiot. Can we stop this now? Hell, if I´d known it would create this...apparently I am DENSE As EFF. Whoppdeedoo  . No, I did not know that there was a march of 60k Neonazis on Warsaw, I only heard about a general right-wing demonstration across the country, I did not make the connection to Neo-Nazis. The rise of right-wing elements across the western hemisphere has not been unnoticed, but I did not connect that with the Alt-Right as Nazism. Since it seems that anything I´m saying seems to "dig my hole deeper", I will shut up now.
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Nov 30, 2017 14:53
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right-wingers are just crypto-fascists. the only reason that there is any sort of strife inside the right is because they're scared of the neo-nazis making the implicit sections of the conservative platform explicit and making them all look bad by association
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Nov 30, 2017 15:00
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Also, a simple look at history will show that fascism is inherently right-wing. The fascist calls on people to remember a glorious and traditional (and nonexistent) heroic past, in which THE PEOPLE were good and just and heroic in obedience to the JUST LEADERS whose return now will purge society of EVIL INFILTRATORS FROM WITHOUT - traditionally Jews, but right now, Muslims also, and Mexicans, and black people. It has also always positioned itself in opposition to communism and other leftist groups, except for when it could temporarily use them to gain power, only to immediately betray them afterwards. Fascism is not inherently capitalist, as it often involves the government taking direct control of various businesses and/or utilities, but that's not the same thing at all.
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Nov 30, 2017 15:04
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The Oxford 'A Very Brief Introduction: Fascism' has a wonderfully useful and comprehensive definition of (traditional) fascism. "Fascism is a set of ideologies and practices that seeks to place the nation, defined in exclusive biological, cultural, and/or historical terms, above all other sources of loyalty, and to create a mobilized national community. Fascist nationalism is reactionary in that it entails implacable hostility to socialism and feminism, for they are seen as prioritizing class or gender rather than nation. This is why fascism is a movement of the extreme right. Fascism is also a movement of the radical right because the defeat of socialism and feminism and the creation of the mobilized nation are held to depend upon the advent to power of a new elite acting in the name of the people, headed by a charismatic leader, and embodied in a mass, militarized party. Fascists are pushed towards conservatism by common hatred of socialism and feminism, but are prepared to override conservative interests – family, property, religion, the universities, the civil service – where the interests of the nation are considered to require it. Fascist radicalism also derives from a desire to assuage discontent by accepting specific demands of the labour and women’s movements, so long as these demands accord with the national priority. Fascists seek to ensure the harmonization of workers’ and women’s interests with those of the nation by mobilizing them within special sections of the party and/or within a corporate system. Access to these organizations and to the benefits they confer upon members depends on the individual’s national, political, and/or racial characteristics. All aspects of fascist policy are suffused with ultranationalism." The confusion it creates as to whether it's reactionary, conservative, or radical is a big advantage the ideology has always enjoyed. Nothing makes it easier to creep into being than by being able to make each side think you're a friend when you're really not. This does not make conservatism or the entire right-wing spectrum in and of itself fascist, though, especially since fascism has a rather happy history of kicking in conservative ideals whenever it suits the 'greater good' with only slightly more reluctance than kicking in the heads of us freemasons.
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Nov 30, 2017 15:13
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https://twitter.com/Papa_Shell/status/936230069260996608 https://twitter.com/Papa_Shell/status/936229478501580800 Some replies from the creator r.e. the right wing peeps Ettin you owe me 5 bux
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Nov 30, 2017 15:32
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Question: does the game include playable stats for Stan and Kyle and Cartman?
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Nov 30, 2017 15:35
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Strategic alliances between normally ideologically opposed groups is absolutely a thing that happens all the time, see the Ukranian Revolution for a very recent example. But the idea that armed resistance to tyranny is a right-wing thing is what really gets me, even more than the idea that wealthy entrepreneurs would side with the resistance instead of the fash like they always do. Is the author's brain so broken that they think Cliven "let me tell you what I know about the negro" Bundy was fighting against state tyranny? Are the Black Panthers a right-wing movement?
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Nov 30, 2017 15:39
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Yeah ok this guy doesn't appear to know much about the history of armed revolutions. You'd think he'd have done some research instead of just asking an evangelical libertarian to fill him in. Don't you remember all the ~*wealthy entrepreneurs*~ who marched down the Ho Chi Minh trail to oppose the corrupt imperialists? Or all those right wing militias that joined forces with Castro against Batista? At least the Christian extremists part is plausible. There are all sorts of anti-government Christian sects around who would fight fascists. The mainline evangelicals wouldn't, generally speaking, but there are plenty of weirdo insular groups who would at least fight to keep their crazy homeschooling abusive compounds free.
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Nov 30, 2017 15:42
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The right's interest in "resisting tyranny" begins and ends at gun ownership. Otherwise there would be armed demonstrations supporting our rights to abortion, same sex marriage, the post office, and public education - but somehow other people's rights are totally cool for tyranny to infringe upon.
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Nov 30, 2017 15:46
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Saguaro PI posted:But the idea that armed resistance to tyranny is a right-wing thing is what really gets me, even more than the idea that wealthy entrepreneurs would side with the resistance instead of the fash like they always do. Is the author's brain so broken that they think Cliven "let me tell you what I know about the negro" Bundy was fighting against state tyranny? Are the Black Panthers a right-wing movement? I mean remember all the hand-wringing over how punching fascists also makes you a fascist? By that train of thought, being a violent resister to tyranny really would make one a right-winger (fighting other right-wingers)
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Nov 30, 2017 15:54
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I just can't get past 'The PCs get their powers from a mysterious numbers station'. It reads like Pump Up the Volume through a conspiracy theorist's lens.
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Nov 30, 2017 15:57
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Jimbozig posted:At least the Christian extremists part is plausible. There are all sorts of anti-government Christian sects around who would fight fascists. The mainline evangelicals wouldn't, generally speaking, but there are plenty of weirdo insular groups who would at least fight to keep their crazy homeschooling abusive compounds free. Yeah, that part is on the money. I mean, we have three great examples of exactly that scenario, two of which defined the Militia movement for at least a decade and which still cast a very long shadow: Jonestown, Waco, and Ruby Ridge. Religion (albeit of the wild and crazy quasi-Christian cult kind) was more or less the motivation for the first two and a major aspect to how the third went down the way it did. They're not tremendously likely to actively take the fight to the Great Tyrant, but if it comes a knockin', the crazy cults will knock right back until they get bombed into the ground. Of course, with a fascist government in charge that bombing into the ground'll probably come a lot faster...
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Nov 30, 2017 16:05
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Loomer posted:Yeah, that part is on the money. I mean, we have three great examples of exactly that scenario, two of which defined the Militia movement for at least a decade and which still cast a very long shadow: Jonestown, Waco, and Ruby Ridge. Religion (albeit of the wild and crazy quasi-Christian cult kind) was more or less the motivation for the first two and a major aspect to how the third went down the way it did. They're not tremendously likely to actively take the fight to the Great Tyrant, but if it comes a knockin', the crazy cults will knock right back until they get bombed into the ground. Yeah, about Ruby Ridge... quote:The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms first became aware of Weaver in July 1986 when he was introduced to a confidential ATF informant at a meeting at the World Aryan Congress.[18] The informant portrayed himself as a weapons dealer.[20] Weaver had been invited by Frank Kumnick, who was the original target of the ATF investigation. It was Weaver's first attendance. Over the next three years, Weaver and the informant met several times.[18] In July 1989, Weaver invited the informant to his home to discuss forming a group to fight the "Zionist Organized Government", referring to the U.S. Government I don't think those guys would've been upset with a white-supremacist fascist government...
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Nov 30, 2017 16:08
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Bieeardo posted:I just can't get past 'The PCs get their powers from a mysterious numbers station'. It reads like Pump Up the Volume through a conspiracy theorist's lens. I think it'd work better if they were more handwavey superpowers like I first thought, the fact that it's some kind of cybernetics feels like it just ends up raising a lot of practical questions.
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Nov 30, 2017 16:09
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Bieeardo posted:I just can't get past 'The PCs get their powers from a mysterious numbers station'. It reads like Pump Up the Volume through a conspiracy theorist's lens. Alien Rope Burn posted:I think it'd work better if they were more handwavey superpowers like I first thought, the fact that it's some kind of cybernetics feels like it just ends up raising a lot of practical questions. I've seen enough of Mage: The Awakening and God-Machine Chronicles to know exactly what they are getting themselves into.
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Nov 30, 2017 16:26
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Wait, what? I missed that part too. I think I'm going to go see if I can find a used copy of CyberGeneration instead.
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Nov 30, 2017 16:28
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| # ? May 13, 2024 22:33 |
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Guy Goodbody posted:Yeah, about Ruby Ridge... I'm not nominating those groups as specific opposition to neo-nazis, since they were all pretty ugly and somewhat fascist leaning. I'm pointing to them as the most visible part of a history of crazy christian nutters shooting at the government in general. I also wouldn't be so fast to assume, while we're at it, that a white supremacist fascist government is going to necessarily be arm in arm with Christian Identitarians and other far-right white-power fringe religions after they've established their power base. They tend to be made up of the kind of person who lands pretty squarely in the 'undesirables' list for real fascist states (let's see... Criminal element, drug addled, religious zealots of a religion that's difficult to control...), which are rather notoriously happy to carry out purges once they've consolidated their grip with the help of those same undesirables. If you are loyal first to anything but the state or its approved colleagues, you're in trouble under a truly fascist government.
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Nov 30, 2017 16:28
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