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Codependent Poster posted:Tony isn't holding anyone's hand, but that is probably a really beat up Spidey he's crying over. There was a casting call for two young children for the movie. Especially with how I think it's very likely Tony is going to die in this movie, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the two children are going to be Tony's kids.
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Nov 30, 2017 14:42
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MonsieurChoc posted:I still don't get why blockbuster movie soundtracks are so poo poo nowadays. When did that knowledge get lost? Zimmer is extremely effective at what he does because of subtle motif usage that tells a story in itself, directors like Zimmer's style so they temp track stuff with Zimmer stuff and the composer just does tonal music without telling a story with it. For the other movies, directors who don't care that much about composition don't work closely with their composer on the film, and it's whatever. Without the old style "composer goes crazy with melodies" stye of scoring, this doesn't work. Dunkirk's (blockbuster) score was arguably the most important part of the movie and drove it more than anything so it still happens; there are just like, 3 composers who consistently work with their directors in detail on scores and a lot of people that could pull out greatness are overworked or rushed.
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Nov 30, 2017 15:01
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Here are some cool videos about superhero movie soundtracks: The Marvel Symphonic Universe Hollywood Scores & Soundtracks Theory of Film Music (a reply to the first video)
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Nov 30, 2017 15:11
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we're never going to get Darkseid, the superior purple goober man, at this rate so I'll settle for stepdad Thanos in a tanktop just killing a decade of characters
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Nov 30, 2017 15:18
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Cythereal posted:There was a casting call for two young children for the movie. Especially with how I think it's very likely Tony is going to die in this movie, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the two children are going to be Tony's kids. Five bucks on Vision and Wandas kids. Hopefully they don't get retconned this iteration!
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Nov 30, 2017 15:27
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Isn't Hawkeye the only Avenger with kids (that we know of). They could have just recasted them.
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Nov 30, 2017 15:36
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I loved Michael Giacchino’s work on Doctor Strange and it was partly because you could hear its temp track influences. There was a lot of Trevor Jones’ Dark City and Don Davis’ The Matrix in there, and that makes perfect sense. When a movie apes shots or scenes from an earlier film, it’s an homage. I feel pretty much the same about Jones and Davis influencing Doctor Strange.
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Nov 30, 2017 16:42
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Darko posted:Zimmer is extremely effective at what he does because of subtle motif usage that tells a story in itself, directors like Zimmer's style so they temp track stuff with Zimmer stuff and the composer just does tonal music without telling a story with it. That's all true. My brother, who's a legit musician, loved Dunkirk's soundtrack and would go into details about how it worked using a style that made it basically a giant crescendo throughout the entire movie.
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Nov 30, 2017 17:32
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https://twitter.com/broderick/status/936175464686768130
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Nov 30, 2017 18:35
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This is the last time you're going to be alive, Omarn.
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Nov 30, 2017 18:51
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It is pretty baller how Josh Brolin is a lead in the two biggest films next year. Deadpool 2 might be the first R rated film to crack a billion worldwide.
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Nov 30, 2017 19:18
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How I feel about that trailer and most movies now days that try to depict large on screen battles is that they fail to impress. They look so loving fake. From Avengers, to Justice League, even the Hobbit movie suffered from this issue.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:04
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Well, they are fake. They're always going to look fake because that's what fake looks like. But people at the theater don't pretend like the edge of the stage isn't there.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:08
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josh04 posted:Well, they are fake. They're always going to look fake because that's what fake looks like. But people at the theater don't pretend like the edge of the stage isn't there. Why are the scenes of aliens attacking in Aliens so much more gripping and believable than the fight with the Troll in Thor 2: The Dark World? After all what Aliens was was just some guys in suits--in fact they only had three complete alien suits IIRC and had to use choppy editing to make it appear there were more. versus the "unlimited palette" of CGI, why is it better?
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Nov 30, 2017 20:13
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NothingMatters posted:How I feel about that trailer and most movies now days that try to depict large on screen battles is that they fail to impress. They look so loving fake. From Avengers, to Justice League, even the Hobbit movie suffered from this issue. That's just a revelation about cinematography. If all the poo poo was real it would still just be technically impressive, which is not dissimilar from finding a fully CGI mass battle scene technically impressive.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:15
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:Why are the scenes of aliens attacking in Aliens so much more gripping and believable than the fight with the Troll in Thor 2: The Dark World? After all what Aliens was was just some guys in suits--in fact they only had three complete alien suits IIRC and had to use choppy editing to make it appear there were more. versus the "unlimited palette" of CGI, why is it better? it isnt, its just what you grew up with, or it affected you at a time in your life where you internalized it and now its your personal standard. no kid born today is going to believe that poo poo, it'll look like garbage to them if they even get to those parts because they won't be able to handle the pacing of the film itself. Meanwhile the orcs/dark elves/whatevers look like gears of war cutscenes and that poo poo is 'badass yo' poo poo changed, silly to pretend it hasnt, or that your old wood etchings are all anybody ever needed. it's just what you liked.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:18
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:Why are the scenes of aliens attacking in Aliens so much more gripping and believable than the fight with the Troll in Thor 2: The Dark World? After all what Aliens was was just some guys in suits--in fact they only had three complete alien suits IIRC and had to use choppy editing to make it appear there were more. versus the "unlimited palette" of CGI, why is it better? Because those scenes were meant to convey different things? The firefight in Aliens was meant to be tense and terrifying. The duel in The Dark World was a humorous, anticlimactic denouement. They're completely different tonally.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:19
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bring back old gbs posted:it isnt, its just what you grew up with, or it affected you at a time in your life where you internalized it and now its your personal standard. no kid born today is going to believe that poo poo, it'll look like garbage to them if they even get to those parts because they won't be able to handle the pacing of the film itself. Meanwhile the orcs/dark elves/whatevers look like gears of war cutscenes and that poo poo is 'badass yo' A guy showed a bunch of 11-year-olds Aliens a couple of years ago and they loved it. https://www.rogerebert.com/mzs/watching-aliens-for-the-first-time-again-with-a-bunch-of-kids
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Nov 30, 2017 20:22
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Children: famed experts on what is real and what is not.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:25
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Phylodox posted:Because those scenes were meant to convey different things? The firefight in Aliens was meant to be tense and terrifying. The duel in The Dark World was a humorous, anticlimactic denouement. They're completely different tonally. Right but why does Aliens look "real"---like, you take it for granted those are real guns, real slime on the walls etc.--while the fight scene in Thor looks like a guy in a plastic chestplate grappling a grey hunk of CGI? It's not because Aliens was before CGI, there were plenty of unconvincing special effects before that.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:26
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bring back old gbs posted:it isnt, its just what you grew up with, or it affected you at a time in your life where you internalized it and now its your personal standard. no kid born today is going to believe that poo poo, it'll look like garbage to them if they even get to those parts because they won't be able to handle the pacing of the film itself. Meanwhile the orcs/dark elves/whatevers look like gears of war cutscenes and that poo poo is 'badass yo' This is one hell of an opinion. Why do you treat it as fact?
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Nov 30, 2017 20:27
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:Right but why does Aliens look "real"---like, you take it for granted those are real guns, real slime on the walls etc.--while the fight scene in Thor looks like a guy in a plastic chestplate grappling a grey hunk of CGI? It's not because Aliens was before CGI, there were plenty of unconvincing special effects before that. I don't want to go out too far on a limb here, but it's possible that James Cameron is a better action director than Alan Taylor.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:28
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:Right but why does Aliens look "real"---like, you take it for granted those are real guns, real slime on the walls etc.--while the fight scene in Thor looks like a guy in a plastic chestplate grappling a grey hunk of CGI? It's not because Aliens was before CGI, there were plenty of unconvincing special effects before that. Compare the Aliens in Aliens to those in AvP. One is meant to convey Horror and suspense and used shadows to keep the creatures more mysterious. (And to cover up the suits which was just a dance suit with textured pieces on it) In AvP the idea was to do something more light hearted and so the Alien is mostly out and about jumping around and doing things a man in a suit could not. Imo Aliens and any other horror film is a bad example for this because it's trying to do something that Thor never, ever was trying to do.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:33
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:Why are the scenes of aliens attacking in Aliens so much more gripping and believable than the fight with the Troll in Thor 2: The Dark World? After all what Aliens was was just some guys in suits--in fact they only had three complete alien suits IIRC and had to use choppy editing to make it appear there were more. versus the "unlimited palette" of CGI, why is it better? It's much more realistic to think in terms of an unspeakable evil being on the cusp of destroying us at a whim, than it is to imagine that there is a God and he is a Liberal.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:34
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:Right but why does Aliens look "real"---like, you take it for granted those are real guns, real slime on the walls etc.--while the fight scene in Thor looks like a guy in a plastic chestplate grappling a grey hunk of CGI? It's not because Aliens was before CGI, there were plenty of unconvincing special effects before that. I'm not trying to be a smartass here so I'll say what I mean plainly: Aliens is skillfully cut and timed so that its scenes carry a rhythm that sucks you in. I could have the greatest prop department in the world making me totally realistic-looking Space Marine guns and alien costumes and if I shot it like Ed Wood it would look like Power Rangers: In Space. Giving something verisimilitude depends on good directing and editing. Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston in Thor 2 have great comedic timing but the director, thinking he just has to point his camera at them under even lighting and let the scene go, lets everything around them look cardboard-y.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:35
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:A guy showed a bunch of 11-year-olds Aliens a couple of years ago and they loved it. well that gives me hope
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Nov 30, 2017 20:42
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Aliens aren't dimension jumping dude. The Alien in Covenant looked kinda lovely at times too.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:43
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I don't think anyone is going to bat to defend Thor 2. Large scale battle scenes are rarely interesting in the macro scale and everyone has seen flyovers of all kinds of historical humans and creatures and robots charging. Stuff like Helms Deep and Hoth work better when there's a clear objective and progress being made by an army vs two swarms colliding. A well-done recent example IMO involved a dragon attack on a wagon caravan in HBO Game of Thrones, a lot of it is grounded in the confusion and panic among ground troops while everything burns around them, maybe that was driven by budget but made a more compelling horrific scene than watching it all from afar.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:43
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:Right but why does Aliens look "real"---like, you take it for granted those are real guns, real slime on the walls etc.--while the fight scene in Thor looks like a guy in a plastic chestplate grappling a grey hunk of CGI? It's not because Aliens was before CGI, there were plenty of unconvincing special effects before that. Again, there's a different tone. Aliens is dark, tense action/horror, while Thor: The Dark World is a lighter, sillier action movie. I think you're overstating how unrealistic The Dark World looks, but it's definitely not supposed to convey versimilitude. Electromax posted:I don't think anyone is going to bat to defend Thor 2. It's me, I'm the guy who'll go to bat for The Dark World. It's not great cinema, but it's got enough good points to make it worthwhile.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:46
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Electromax posted:I don't think anyone is going to bat to defend Thor 2. Yeah, I was trying to think of a well-done recent example of a large-scale battle and this is a good choice. The issue is when the spectacle is all we're given to care about.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:46
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CelticPredator posted:Aliens aren't dimension jumping dude. It did? josh04 posted:Well, they are fake. They're always going to look fake because that's what fake looks like. But people at the theater don't pretend like the edge of the stage isn't there. This post, and Donald Duck's, are arguing that degrees of verisimilitude is a fake idea that exists only in your mind. I picked an example of special effects I thought were convincing vs SFX that weren't (maybe a less controversial example would be any shot of Captain America doing anything in The Avengers?)
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Nov 30, 2017 20:47
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good, but needs more pretentious quasi-academic jargon
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Nov 30, 2017 20:49
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Half the time the Covenant Alien looked too CG. Sometimes it looked cool. Wish he went with a suit but whatever
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Nov 30, 2017 20:49
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Electromax posted:A well-done recent example IMO involved a dragon attack on a wagon caravan in HBO Game of Thrones, a lot of it is grounded in the confusion and panic among ground troops while everything burns around them, maybe that was driven by budget but made a more compelling horrific scene than watching it all from afar. Also a surprising amount of the effects in that scene were done practically where they probably would have been done digitally in a bigger production. Need a shot of a bunch of guys being consumed by dragonfire? Dress up a bunch of stuntmen in armor and burn 'em up! (Make sure they can hold their breath a long time.) Need a shot of Dothraki screamers firing arrows while standing on the saddles of galloping horses? Train up some stuntmen! They also did that "Bird's eye view zooming over the battlefield" shot that you always see in big CGI battle scenes but here they had an actual reason (one character was actually zooming over the battlefield on a dragon) and they used physical cameras on drones and on cables to get the shots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w39HqtxKV98 Edit: people keep talking about how Steppenwolf's fight with the Amazons was one of the best scenes in Justice League but the lovely lovely CGI horses kept distracting the hell out of me. The technology just can't match actual horses shot by actual cameras. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 20:51
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The Xenomorph is one of the few movie monsters that is uniquely designed to be a physical suit. At least the classic designs The gnarled and tree root-y design from Covenant might not have worked well
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Nov 30, 2017 20:52
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CelticPredator posted:Half the time the Covenant Alien looked too CG. Sometimes it looked cool. Apparently it's Javier Botet mo-cap, which explains the strange vibe I got from it, jerky and stop-motiony.
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Nov 30, 2017 21:13
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:This post, and Donald Duck's, are arguing that degrees of verisimilitude is a fake idea that exists only in your mind. I picked an example of special effects I thought were convincing vs SFX that weren't (maybe a less controversial example would be any shot of Captain America doing anything in The Avengers?) All ideas are fake and only exist in your mind. That doesn't mean it's fruitless to talk about them, the opposite in fact, and it explains certain feelings much better than trying to objectively sort out the difference between a fake alien suit and a cartoon hammer fight. Neither set of special effects aspires to verisimilitude. The house fire in Manchester By The Sea possesses verisimilitude. Complaining about the lack of verisimilitude in a fight in Thor (or Captain America) is like complaining that the vampires in Buffy didn't drink enough blood.
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Nov 30, 2017 21:18
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josh04 posted:Well, they are fake. They're always going to look fake because that's what fake looks like. But people at the theater don't pretend like the edge of the stage isn't there. LOTR on stage massive battles were much, much, much, much better and they were done nearly 20 years ago.
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Nov 30, 2017 21:25
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josh04 posted:All ideas are fake and only exist in your mind. That's silly. Fantastical effects or trying to portray the fantastical in a movie takes a lot of craft and skill and is easy to do badly. Going "oh well it's just cartoony BS who cares" overlooks real differences in filmmaking.
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Nov 30, 2017 21:27
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NothingMatters posted:LOTR on stage massive battles were much, much, much, much better and they were done nearly 20 years ago. I agree! WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:That's silly. Fantastical effects or trying to portray the fantastical in a movie takes a lot of craft and skill and is easy to do badly. Going "oh well it's just cartoony BS who cares" overlooks real differences in filmmaking. I'm not saying "who cares" at all. I'm saying that what's being picked up on isn't a lack of verisimilitude. The effects in Thor are not trying to be realistic, AND they're largely succeeding at what effect they are aiming for instead, AND EVEN THEN the sequences are uninspiring. If I had to put a label on where I thought the fault was I'd agree with everyone else that it's uninspired direction.
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Nov 30, 2017 21:33
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