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Prester Jane posted:For reals though ya'll everyone here is (allegedly) on the same side. Can we agree that there might be two very different perspectives going on here and that both groups are miserable and want to see changes that would be beneficial to both groups and that our creative energies might be better spent on topics other than the pain olympics here. 100% of all people who say that people who make 100k or over per year are struggling are brain damaged. Nowhere in the world is someone who makes that much struggling, and so far nobody who has ever said such a dumb thing has answered me when I ask how they think people who live in the same region but only make minimum wage survive.
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Dec 1, 2017 05:53
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Rigel posted:I still can't believe that the Senate cardigan lady of rules (who most goons never heard of before today) may end up saving us from this horrible tax bill. Didn't she also play a pretty big part in getting one of the healthcare repeal bills killed due to how the rules regarding the deficit worked? Senate cardigan lady of rules is pretty much the best part of Congress.
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Dec 1, 2017 05:54
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Ok, I don't understand. Earlier today we were mourning the fact that this looked inevitable. I have read all the posts and Tweets and I don't get what's happened. Is it just the GOP stepping on their own dicks again?
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Dec 1, 2017 05:54
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empty whippet box posted:The GOP will never do anything that isn't a sweetheart giveaway to the ultra-rich. This is regardless of absolutely anything. We're talking about a hypothetical timeline where the millionaire tax cut bill is stone cold dead, and has no chance of passing. In that world, the GOP may be terrified enough about the election to bribe the voters into not murdering all of them at the polls.
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Dec 1, 2017 05:56
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Alter Ego posted:Ok, I don't understand. Earlier today we were mourning the fact that this looked inevitable. The bill costs a trillion dollars and it turns out the trigger they wanted to add in to buy some Senators can't actually be added. Chaos Reigns
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Dec 1, 2017 05:57
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Alter Ego posted:Ok, I don't understand. Earlier today we were mourning the fact that this looked inevitable. The trolls are arguing over how to cook Bilbo and the sun rises in 14 working hours
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Dec 1, 2017 05:57
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Mantis42 posted:The bill costs a trillion dollars and it turns out the trigger they wanted to add in to buy some Senators can't actually be added. Chaos Reigns So...stepping on their own dicks.
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Dec 1, 2017 05:57
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Alter Ego posted:Ok, I don't understand. Earlier today we were mourning the fact that this looked inevitable. Trump is awesome because he says the quiet part loud and the loud part quiet. It makes actually passing their horrific legislation really hard. Sucks about the judiciary and, well, everything else. But it could be a whole lot worse. In some alternative universe President Cruz/Clinton/Walker has already privatized social security while expanding the GWOT to include Iran.
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Dec 1, 2017 05:57
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Blitz7x posted:The trolls are arguing over how to cook Bilbo and the sun rises in 14 working hours Send help I can't breathe
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Dec 1, 2017 05:58
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Alter Ego posted:Ok, I don't understand. Earlier today we were mourning the fact that this looked inevitable. Basically, Trump pissed off Corker and Flake enough to where they decided to cut their losses and just do whatever they want. Maybe they crumble, maybe they get the deficit reduction they want. Either way it's making the turtle scramble like he's in a 1930's cartoon.
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Dec 1, 2017 05:58
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Rigel posted:I still can't believe that the Senate cardigan lady of rules (who most goons never heard of before today) may end up saving us from this horrible tax bill. I feel like the Senate parliamentarian is someone who is getting recognized more and more these days
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Dec 1, 2017 05:58
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Alter Ego posted:Ok, I don't understand. Earlier today we were mourning the fact that this looked inevitable. They added some weird and poorly defined mechanism that essentially hand waved away the insane increase to the deficit caused by the bill. Today, less than an hour before the bill could go to a final vote, the parliamentarian basically told them that if they are going to continue to pretend to follow the rules they will need to actually have a real way to avoid a $1T deficit. So of course they'll just type up that totally real and well thought out plan real quick and be ready to go again tomorrow.
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Dec 1, 2017 05:59
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What really gets me is that this bill is failing in a very similar way to the AHCA, except that it may not even get that far. Repealing the ACA and tax "reform" was supposed to be the GOP''s biggest priorities, and at least as of now, they can't even do it with control of the White House and both chambers of congress. That is laughably pathetic, and I have no sympathy for them.
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Dec 1, 2017 05:59
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TheBalor posted:Basically, Trump pissed off Corker and Flake enough to where they decided to cut their losses and just do whatever they want. Maybe they crumble, maybe they get the deficit reduction they want. Either way it's making the turtle scramble like he's in a 1930's cartoon. Why's that matter though? Corker and Flake are only two nos, they can do it without them.
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Dec 1, 2017 05:59
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Cru Jones posted:I feel like the Senate parliamentarian is someone who is getting recognized more and more these days I've learned so much about how our government works (pleasantly) since this poo poo show administration took over
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Dec 1, 2017 05:59
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What the Hell, has this horrible tax bill passed or not?
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Dec 1, 2017 06:00
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CassandraSupreme posted:Trump is awesome because he says the quiet part loud and the loud part quiet. It makes actually passing their horrific legislation really hard. Yea, ironically the Redhats shoulda voted JEB!
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Dec 1, 2017 06:00
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Fragmented posted:Wait what? I was talking about the 200k+ income earners posting in the thread. If you are one of them yeah maybe your taxes should go up a bit. I also want to wipe all student loan debt over 5-30k depending on income level and have a tax rate like we had in the 50's. I understand your frustrations and dude, I seriously appreciate the work that you are doing. I know that despite my very liberal positions i am still out of touch with how most of this country is living, and my version of "making ends meet" is not copacetic with reality for most people. Yes, my wife and I both make six figure salaries and yes, that is a shitload of money. We both had a lot of lucky breaks in where we were born and who we were born to, and both chose to go into industries that are historically high income. We took on a shitload of student loan debt to make that happen, and we again got lucky in our career advancements. We both appreciate where we are and how lucky we are to be here. We live in a high cost of living area for a couple of reasons: -The schools here are top notch -Even here, we each have 45 minute one-way commutes. Closer for each would entail even higher housing costs. -Our neighborhood is incredible, and we opted to spend money on our neighborhood at the expense of other pleasures, like eating out or amusement parks. I know you want to respond "amusement parks! People can't afford food!" And you're right. It's totally out of touch with the people you work with. But here's the thing... we make several orders above the average income in this country, and my state, but we can't really afford to hit the amusement parks, let alone take an actual vacation. It used to be that if you made a really good loving living, you could live in a nice neighborhood and still go on vacation once per year. A 1,900sf townhouse here is $800,000. Daycare is over $3,000 for 2 kids. We don't need any of these things (kind of need daycare right now). We pay thousands per month in student loan payments. I'm in a good place and I'm well off, but man I wonder what it was like when you could make 4x the median income and you were actually rich. I'm not complaining, please understand that. I'm super lucky and I have literally everything I need. I'd be completely on board with a tax increase if it wasn't to fund goddamn billionaires. But increasing my taxes and taxes on the poor to fund the wealthy is loving garbage.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:01
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Alter Ego posted:Ok, I don't understand. Earlier today we were mourning the fact that this looked inevitable. They had a deal that involved a weird trigger where taxes get raised in the future if the GOP's magical math doesn't work and tax cuts don't result in prosperity. That deal looked like it had the votes, it was gonna pass, and it was all over. Then the Senate cardigan lady of rules stepped in and said the trigger mechanism is not allowed in reconciliation, and all hell broke loose. Now they can't pretend anymore and the few republicans who actually care about the debt are fighting with the Republicans who have already whored themselves out to their rich paymasters.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:01
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Fragmented posted:Is anyone else disheartened on a daily basis how many people you know/work with don't care about any of this? I socialize and work with mostly left leaning people(again, Portland) and no one seems to give a poo poo. The biggest theft in American history is being attempted and no one knows what's going on. My college educated co-worker couldn't even name the heads of the senate or house, on either side. And she loving hates Trump. I dunno your co-worker might just be a moron? People who loving hate trump seem to have a masochistic fascination in reading as much "holy poo poo here's what trump did today" news, and I don't see how anyone following even a fraction of this last year''s fuckcircus could come away from it not knowing who ryan and mcturtle are unless they had a traumatic brain injury somewhere along the line. I've talked to a lot of normally pretty low-information people who have a good understanding of at least the 2 or 3 turds in either the house or senate bill that seem the most personally outrageous to them.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:01
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empty whippet box posted:The GOP will never do anything that isn't a sweetheart giveaway to the ultra-rich. This is regardless of absolutely anything. They'll ban planned Parenthood, that doesn't help the rich at all
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Dec 1, 2017 06:01
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It's crazy now normalized writing a bill the night before you're supposed to pass it has become.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:01
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:What the Hell, has this horrible tax bill passed or not? No. There isn't even an actual bill at this point to vote on. There may never be.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:01
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Blitz7x posted:The trolls are arguing over how to cook Bilbo and the sun rises in 14 working hours Between this and the person who posted that one-liner of Keillor as Treebeard, you guys are killing it
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Dec 1, 2017 06:02
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[quote="“CassandraSupreme”" post="“478898724”"] so far nobody who has ever said such a dumb thing has answered me when I ask how they think people who live in the same region but only make minimum wage survive. [/quote] By struggling WAY WAY more. Jesus Christ. This isn't rocket science.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:02
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Alter Ego posted:Why's that matter though? Corker and Flake are only two nos, they can do it without them. Collins is a solid no as well, and Ron Johnson of all people joined them in holding up a procedural vote because the trigger makes no sense at all and Corker seemed to realize that very abruptly.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:02
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Rigel posted:They had a deal that involved a weird trigger where taxes get raised in the future if the GOP's magical math doesn't work and tax cuts don't result in prosperity. So the parliamentarian blew up the deal? Wow. My hero. She's like the Rules Batman.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:03
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Alter Ego posted:Why's that matter though? Corker and Flake are only two nos, they can do it without them. Moran and Johnson are apparently backing them up. They have 4 holdouts to deal with. If they wrangle Moran and Johnson into line, then the asking price from Collins might still kill it among the HFC crazies.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:03
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Al Borland Corp. posted:They'll ban planned Parenthood, that doesn't help the rich at all Super useful dogwhistle to distract people from more tax cuts for trillionaires.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:03
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Stereotype posted:Collins is a solid no as well, and Ron Johnson of all people joined them in holding up a procedural vote because the trigger makes no sense at all and Corker seemed to realize that very abruptly. I thought both Collins and Johnson sent it to a final vote.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:04
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Alter Ego posted:Ok, I don't understand. Earlier today we were mourning the fact that this looked inevitable. The Democrats will filibuster the gently caress out of any country destroying bill the Republicans push forward. The Republicans can in turn pass a budget under "Reconciliation" which lets you push a budget out the door with a 51 vote majority, but only if it's deficit neutral to the existing budget. The bill isn't deficit neutral unless there's a comical amount of growth--so much so that it isn't a plausible outcome. So to try to trick the system, they included an if-then conditional statement in the bill. If there isn't a huge growth burst that pays for the tax cuts, the tax cuts go away, so the bill is budget neutral even if magical christmas land doesn't mail us a few million extra jobs. Brilliant! Thing is, you don't get to put conditional laws. You get to pass laws that say a thing, and if you want to have it change later, you get congress together later and fuckin' change it. When they went to the floor and let people see the law for the first time ever, the Parliamentarian (the referee, basically) told them to get the gently caress out of them with their stupid bullshit trigger clause and come back with a real law. The Republicans have vowed to come back with a better law, with blackjack and hookers, and they have fourteen hours to do that. Unfortunately for the Grand Old Party, everyone who knows what laws are or how to write them or how to pass them has been chased out by lunatics who want to destroy Washington DC with their radioactive super mutants, so the fact that their law couldn't be passed was a surprise to them. Morons.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:05
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What motivates the 45ish republican senators who never make waves at all to not make waves? Why aren't they also trying to make demands? It's bizarre to me that there's always a key few holding up votes, and I'll probably never hear the names of the ones who don't, because they never will.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:05
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If you have posted anything that requires you to use this character: $ You are making a lovely post and you need to stop. Do not post hypotheticals about income levels. Do not post about home prices in a certain location. Do not post about a location's cost of living. Do not post.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:06
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Alter Ego posted:I thought both Collins and Johnson sent it to a final vote. McCain voted to send AHCA to the floor and then killed it.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:06
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empty whippet box posted:What motivates the 45ish republican senators who never make waves at all to not make waves? Why aren't they also trying to make demands? It's bizarre to me that there's always a key few holding up votes, and I'll probably never hear the names of the ones who don't, because they never will. The promise of sweet, sweet wignut welfare for them and their entire family if they retire in good graces with the conservative movement. All of their kids, grand kids, nephews and nieces will sleep walk into 6 figure jobs in the movement or at aligned think tanks.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:07
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Mystic Mongol posted:The Democrats will filibuster the gently caress out of any country destroying bill the Republicans push forward. The Republicans can in turn pass a budget under "Reconciliation" which lets you push a budget out the door with a 51 vote majority, but only if it's deficit neutral to the existing budget. It shocks me that the parliamentarian wields this much power. She may have saved us all, and that isn't an exaggeration.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:07
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Alter Ego posted:I thought both Collins and Johnson sent it to a final vote. The MTP was 52-48, it just meant "ok, we're now going to start allowing amendments". The holdouts all want their special snowflake amendments to get to yes, so every republican voted yes. It got difficult when it came time to actually write the drat thing and they were told the trigger wasn't allowed.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:07
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Rigel posted:The MTP was 52-48, it just meant "ok, we're now going to start allowing amendments". The holdouts all want their special snowflake amendments to get to yes, so every republican voted yes. It got difficult when it came time to actually write the drat thing and they were told the trigger wasn't allowed. I am stunned that Mitch loving McConnell didn't see this coming. Or maybe he did and just didn't care.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:08
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empty whippet box posted:What motivates the 45ish republican senators who never make waves at all to not make waves? Why aren't they also trying to make demands? It's bizarre to me that there's always a key few holding up votes, and I'll probably never hear the names of the ones who don't, because they never will. They're making waves in the back rooms. Notice how they can't pass anything else, either? That's because no one can write a bill that won't have some rando senator you've never heard of scuttle it. Maybe if they wrote a piece of bipartisan legislation they could keep two randos from destroying their dreams, but that would mean not being overtly evil for a full bill, and that ain't happening. We just don't hear about it because the GOP's ashamed of being awful at governing, so mostly it happens behind closed doors. But when a vote hits the floor, we get to see it happen in real time.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:08
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empty whippet box posted:What motivates the 45ish republican senators who never make waves at all to not make waves? Why aren't they also trying to make demands? It's bizarre to me that there's always a key few holding up votes, and I'll probably never hear the names of the ones who don't, because they never will. Nice cushy paycheck for no actual work or stress Sounds dope tbh
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Dec 1, 2017 06:09
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