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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I've always wondered, do you guys think he got lethal only after the Zod attack or do you think he was always lethal? Would a lethal Batman have no quarrel with Jason Todd? Batman being non-lethal in the first place has always been nonsense, what changes is that he just becomes much more preemptive.
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Dec 3, 2017 02:50
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Yeah, BvS Batman is no more lethal than the Nolan version, the branding is just different.
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Dec 3, 2017 02:56
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Sir Kodiak posted:Yeah, BvS Batman is no more lethal than the Nolan version, the branding is just different. 
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Dec 3, 2017 02:58
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Xander B Coolridge posted:Sure. If I recall, Superman's issue with Batman was that he was a vigilante operating outside the law. Could have been a bit more nuanced than that, but that was the heart of it I believe. The film is not failing to address these conflicts, it depicts them. To wit, it is important to be specific. Clark's issue with Bruce is not that he operates outside the law. Clark takes just as much issue with the law that is backing Bruce's behavior. His objection is to the trampling of civil liberties, which he states explicitly to Bruce's face. Conversely, Bruce's issue with Clark has nothing to do with what he knows Clark to be responsible for, i.e. killing people. Like comic-book fans who got in a tiff because of all the people Clark "killed" in Man of Steel, he blames Clark for death. He obviously can not demonstrate that Clark is uniquely responsible for any deaths besides Zod's. Furthermore, Bruce would not object to killing Zod. Killing is not the problem. The problem is that Bruce, like Lex Luthor, is projecting onto Superman the consequences of all corruption. When Clark confronts him, he does not talk about people who Superman has killed, but speculates about how he could kill everyone, which, to him, is enough.
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Dec 3, 2017 03:03
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Double post for good visual storytelling: 
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Dec 3, 2017 03:15
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I've always wondered, do you guys think Batman got lethal only after the Zod attack or do you think he was always lethal? Would a lethal Batman have no quarrel with Jason Todd? It always struck me that Bruce/Batman in BvS was never as lethal as he was prior to the arrival of The Superman. His mindset shifted the moment Kryptonians blew up a chunk of Metropolis, and has been on a downward spiral towards finding a solution to ensure that never happens again. Alfred's "good men turning cruel" speech sheds a bit of light on this transition towards the use of more lethal means. The Ultimate Edition also has an added scene that embellishes this transition as well, where Clark is investigating in Gotham, and first learns about the existence of The Batman; he comes across an old man who says, ""There's a new kind of mean in him. He is angry. And he's hunting." which to me, comes across as Batman clearly not being his usual methodical self. This dude, who was already crazy, is on the hunt for kryptonite and wants to straight up murder Superman. Through sheer will and brute force he will do anything and everything, i.e., kill sum bitches, to obtain kryptonite to see that action through. This iteration of a world-weary Bruce Wayne who is at the end of the rope is why I also love the Gordian Knot scene. The parallel is so good. teagone fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 03:32
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Xander B Coolridge posted:I can appreciate the praise about the slightly more objective elements more than I can, for example, get my head around why anyone would enjoy what I consider Eisenberg's almost offensively terrible performance as Luthor. Terrible performance, or terrible characterization?
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Dec 3, 2017 03:32
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Sinding Johansson posted:. In the end he embraces Superman's idea that his role as a superhero should not be as a personal power fantasy but as a symbol. He certainly isn't a symbol of hope so of what exactly is left ambiguous. Sure he was - in Man of Steel, the entire last act was based on Superman gaining the trust of people, and then the film showcased EVERY human character, fighting with their last breath, to see that they help one another and live to see a better day.
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Dec 3, 2017 03:36
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Why isnt one of the new comic movies embracing camp like 60's batman?
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Dec 3, 2017 03:54
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Cross-post comin' in:
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Dec 3, 2017 04:07
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Hey comic book movie thread. It is the season for holiday nonsense and I have a secret santa thing going here in CineD so if that sounds like something you'd like to do then go here https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3840701 Thanks for your time
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Dec 3, 2017 04:25
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got any sevens posted:Why isnt one of the new comic movies embracing camp like 60's batman? There was an animated one. I don't think anyone watched it though. I feel like 60s Batman is best as a nostalgic memory because it reality it ain't great. Except the Scooby Doo crossover
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Dec 3, 2017 04:38
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roffels posted:Sure he was - in Man of Steel, the entire last act was based on Superman gaining the trust of people, and then the film showcased EVERY human character, fighting with their last breath, to see that they help one another and live to see a better day. I think they meant Batman wasn't a symbol of hope.
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Dec 3, 2017 04:49
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K. Waste posted:Double post for good visual storytelling:   K. Waste posted:Cross-post comin' in: I love this shot of the batsuit. It makes it look like a monster with a huge mouth that's going to consume Bruce. Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 04:59
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roffels posted:Terrible performance, or terrible characterization? The characterization was flawless, I think he suffers the most from the "not my X!" whining.
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Dec 3, 2017 05:09
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Edit: Whoops, got lost in the conversation thread. I think Lex's portrayal is pretty perfect for when you think of the new ruling class - the dipshit silicon valley types who are as much sociopaths as Gordon Gekkos of the world but are much more sinister since they live in more of a bubble and fester in their bad worldviews. Jimbot fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 05:14
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The characterization was flawless, I think he suffers the most from the "not my X!" whining. He's also just a genuinely unpleasant and loathsome person to be around, which is a big change of pace from a lot of comic book villains that try to be imposing or cool first and foremost
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Dec 3, 2017 05:18
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Jenny Angel posted:He's also just a genuinely unpleasant and loathsome person to be around, which is a big change of pace from a lot of comic book villains that try to be imposing or cool first and foremost just like the real mark zuckerberg!
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Dec 3, 2017 05:24
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It's what I touched on before. This was not the Lex Luthor many people wanted because this literally wasn't the Lex Luthor they were looking for. The performance was great, the characterization was on point. The issue is if you can get into it or not. If you can, great. If you can't... well sitting in the theater watching this movie, every time Lex showed up I laughed to myself at how much certain people were going to hate it. Because again, this isn't the Lex Luthor they're used to. Nor should it be, being honest. The Lex Luthor most people are familiar with is the one from the 80s, who informed the Animated series adaptation and most of them after. He is a power player big business super man, suave and charismatic. The peak of humanity without any of the morality to hold him back. 80s Business type writ large, never without a flashy suit or beautiful woman on his arm. But that was the 80s. It made sense to modernize him into that form, from the more generic Mad Scientist that he had been for the rest of his existence, but that's not what Lex should be NOW. Keeping in mind the core of the character, a super smart human with a heavy preference for tech, the new norm is no longer self made power players who wear expensive outfits and can buy and sell some one while sweet talking them out of their life savings. Instead its the anti social, barely functioning wrecks of the modern tech industry. The Zuckerberg. They nail this perfectly. This Lex is neurotic and scattered, but still uniquely Lex Luthor. He can't speak in public for any length of time without his psychosis derailing him and overtaking his thought process. His daddy issues are the core of his entire being, his feelings of inadequacy and powerlessness, and they feed into every aspect of his psyche. Every bit of dialogue paints the picture of what kind of man he is, how far he's fallen. Instead of the sophisticated, fast talking, charismatic Lex of the 80s, we have the barely socially functioning modern Lex Luthor, who remains the smartest person on Earth and he drat well knows it. Only much like his ability to give speeches, his intelligence is bent towards his psychosis and neurosis. He is not a rational man, his mind is too far from normal to ever be rational. He is the man who sees some one with more power than himself and can only perceive them as a threat. They become the new stand in for his father, for his God. This Lex is an incredibly religious man in certain respects, not in direct Christian values, but in his fear and apprehension of a loving God. A loving God doesn't make sense, it cannot exist in his mind. A loving God would have saved him from his father's fists and abominations. So instead he reaches out for His God. His God is angry and hateful. His God is abusive and swift to punish. His God would kill such a weak and pathetic man like him, and on some level he believes he deserves that. It's why he keeps his father's room the way it is, only turning the painting upside down. He wants his father to return. He wants his God to come. Superman is the antitheses of his God, of everything he believes. So he seeks to create his God in the flesh of the fallen. So he creates the Doomsday. Welcoming all that it brings, he gives life to his God- his father. And then Superman saves Lex from his fists and abominations. That scene, that one scene, which goes without comment or acknowledgement, is to me the single best moment of BvS. Doomsday's first reaction upon seeing Lex is to try and smite him, as Lex believes he deserves. As Lex knows is right. Without hesitation or even a single word, Superman is there. Superman saves the life of the man who nearly killed his mother, who set a violent vigilante against him, who orchestrated the whole world against him. He saves him without a single doubt, and dies to keep him safe.
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Dec 3, 2017 05:27
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Like if you want me to go on what I like about the story of Batman V Superman, I loving will. It is a super dense movie in its imagery and motivations but it's not impenetrable. If it had gotten to be a graphic novel first, it would be hailed as an all time great, even given it's nods to DKR. Maybe especially. Every character is expertly played and pulls through to the end. Man of Steel is the better movie because again, I think the best version of BvS is somewhere between the Director's and Theatrical cut, and one without the loving ad to the other heroes shoved in. The Martha scene is the one bit that I think could have been reworked slightly. Just tweaked. The core of it is beautiful though and Afflek sells the hell out of it. This unknowable alien monster, begging him to save the life of his very human mother with his presumably last breath. The use of Martha is fine too because it'd be just enough to jar Batman, to wake Bruce up, and give Lois the moment she needed to tell him what the deal was. As it is, it is a flawed movie but immensely satisfying and it tries so hard to be more than a lot of other super hero films aspire for. Mostly in that it just tries to be a Super Hero Movie. It's about one man redeeming another and saving the world through his own sacrifice. It's not about stopping an alien invasion, or dealing with your own gently caress ups, or fighting your friends over personal differences. It's about saving people. It's about saving their very souls, bringing them back to the light so that they may save others. It's an incredibly uplifting movie because it takes the psychotic, violent murderous Batman, and redeems him entirely through Superman's love for his mother and his planet. It shows that Batman is wrong, that what he was doing was wrong. He lost his way, his humanity, and needed Superman to show him what to be again. Batman accepts Superman's love and is redeemed. He becomes a hero again. If you seek his monument, look around you.
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Dec 3, 2017 05:41
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https://twitter.com/YtThumbnails/status/937171574830129152
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Dec 3, 2017 05:44
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Thanks for yet another stupid rear end account I need to follow.
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Dec 3, 2017 05:47
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Burkion posted:If you seek his monument, look around you. this is no poo poo my Facebook cover photo. it's really cool and captures more in one moment (the entire memorial in that scene) what Justice League spent about half of its runtime trying to showcase
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Dec 3, 2017 05:50
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The characterization was flawless, I think he suffers the most from the "not my X!" whining. Yeah, well, that's what I was getting at. I can't fault Eisenberg's performance at all - I bought that he was the creep he was portraying. Seemed weird to call out his performance. I understand someone not liking the character though.
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Dec 3, 2017 05:58
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Burkion posted:I adore what they did to Lex and Superman, for instance. Lex is perfectly updated to fit the current era- a more dominating lead actor would be wasted in the role because it is so perfectly made for such a small insecure man that Jesse brought to life. Dominating deep voiced Lex was a product of the 80s and should remain in stories inspired and set in that era. This is so loving wrong, and I liked Man Of Steel more than any of the Marvel films, so I'm not just hating DC. Hipster Lex Luthor is arguably the main reason why BvS failed as a movie. You're telling me that Bryan Cranston — who was rumored to play Lex as one point — couldn't play some narcissistic, madman billionaire with a god complex effectively? Any monologue by him as Lex in the movie would have been memorable; he's just that kind of actor. Imagine him describing why he wants Superman dead in his own unique and dramatic way. Instead, we got some dumb kid known for playing Zuckerberg in a different movie as Lex Luthor with Tourette syndrome. And with long loving hair...... "Guys, hipster lex good for our times!!11 its relevant like zuckerberg and dorsey!!" jfc 
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Dec 3, 2017 07:35
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NOT MY LEX Is there not a bvs thread anymore
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Dec 3, 2017 07:36
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viral spiral posted:This is so loving wrong, and I liked Man Of Steel more than any of the Marvel films, so I'm not just hating DC. What’s a hipster?
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Dec 3, 2017 07:39
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net cafe scandal posted:What’s a hipster? a young person i don't like
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Dec 3, 2017 07:41
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lmao if you think that the BvS lex is a hipster
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Dec 3, 2017 08:12
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viral spiral posted:This is so loving wrong, and I liked Man Of Steel more than any of the Marvel films, so I'm not just hating DC. Nah, Eisenberg's Luthor was a perfect contrast to Cavill's Superman. As great of an actor Cranston is, an old dude dishing out the same diatribes against gods and their fathers to the DCEU Superman wouldn't be as effective or striking. Against a Donner or Singer Superman, sure that works, but not the Snyder Superman. Lex as a youthful, arrogant, insecure, and entitled evil little poo poo who comes from money works really well against an altruistic, blue-collar, burly mountain man with a heart of gold. DCEU Lex is clearly inferior to Clark physically, so Lex being able to make Clark his bitch with his intellect in BvS makes for a satisfying villain. Also, Lex having hair is canon and part of his origin in certain runs. You should read Superman: Birthright, it's pretty good.
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Dec 3, 2017 08:12
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The characterization was flawless, I think he suffers the most from the "not my X!" whining. The editing is garbage in.
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Dec 3, 2017 08:19
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K. Waste posted:Double post for good visual storytelling: a beautiful lie
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Dec 3, 2017 08:33
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Eisenberg was originally supposed to be Jimmy Olsen. “Zack Snyder” posted:I thought, if it were Jesse Eisenberg and he got out and he goes, ‘I’m Jimmy Olsen,’ you’d be like, oh my God, we’re gonna have Jimmy Olsen in the whole movie, right?’” Snyder says. “And then if he got shot, you’d just be like, ‘What!? You can’t do that.’ But after interviewing him for the role he thought of withdrawing it because Eisenberg was “being Jesse” with his twitches and nervous laughter. Snyder described the interview with his wife and she’s the one that suggested casting him as Lex.
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Dec 3, 2017 08:48
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viral spiral posted:"Guys, hipster lex good for our times!!11 its relevant like zuckerberg and dorsey!!" jfc Casting Jesse Eisenburg is relevant because it is a compound image. You have someone ravaged by their lovely father, yet you also have the fact that youth/young adulthood does not allow Lex Luthor to escape responsibility for his actions. It maintains the locus on how youth experiences inform the various decisions that the three characters will make, and their various politics. Lex is especially important because he has, within predominant ideology, the seemingly least amount of reasons to be upset with his life. Especially if you're materialistic in a capitalist sense. He could technically just buy his own happiness, but the trauma he has incurred has caused him to inflate his own importance without ever paying that any mind. What he's doing is normal. Having some old guy do this isn't really about acting chops, it's that it isn't as effective an image of the present of the film. One doesn't need to wait for Lex to be corrupted, nor have this potential implication that he's just "far gone." Casting a young Lex Luthor places his circumstances in the "now" of the story, that these lives have converged in a way that contrasts the actions of three relatively young men. It is Bruce Wayne, being the oldest of the three, that effectively covers wanting Lex Luthor to be some old crony. Identifying that this is somehow a mistake is just being spiteful.
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Dec 3, 2017 09:10
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I have an intense appreciation for how Lex Luthor’s madness takes the form of an increasingly uncontrollable quippiness, until - near the end of the film - he’s dropping references to Elmer Fudd, “Trix are for kids”, and Alice In Wonderland over the course of five seconds on a ‘Superman’s like Bugs Bunny” tangent that only he fully understands.
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Dec 3, 2017 09:15
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Eisenberg was not the first choice for a young Lex either. Adam Driver auditioned for the role too.
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Dec 3, 2017 09:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I have an intense appreciation for how Lex Luthor’s madness takes the form of an increasingly uncontrollable quippiness, until - near the end of the film - he’s dropping references to Elmer Fudd, “Trix are for kids”, and Alice In Wonderland over the course of five seconds on a ‘Superman’s like Bugs Bunny” tangent that only he fully understands. That's him doing loving memes, isn't it? Edit: In fact, upon further reflection there's some parts Martin Shkreli in Luthor. Him channeling some parts WB pop culture seems rather fitting because that's really speaking to a certain level of nerdiness. There's an episode of a show called Chowder that I saw in a hotel room several years ago, it was called "The Blackout." A set of scenes that made it stick in my head to this day was someone commenting about "Weirdos" who come out when the power goes out and start forcing people to have "boring conversations" with people. But what was interesting was that it's specifically the type of conversation that only really makes sense to the person speaking. They simultaneously have to surrender background or explanatory information about the subject they're talking about but simultaneously do not care if the information is understood or solicited. Corrosion fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 09:30
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The MSJ posted:Eisenberg was not the first choice for a young Lex either. Adam Driver auditioned for the role too. I'm glad everything worked out for the better. (Kylo Ren owns is and is better than Lex Luthor ever was.)
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Dec 3, 2017 09:32
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got any sevens posted:Is there not a bvs thread anymore Every thread is a BvS thread. If you seek its monument, look around you. Burkion posted:Because again, this isn't the Lex Luthor they're used to. Justice League spoiler: the bald, flashy suit with beautiful women on his arm Lex appears in the post credits scene. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 10:39
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Mr. Apollo posted:
I have major issues with the plot of BvS but that batsuit shot and superman above the food victims are fantastic. Absolutely gorgeous, and tell you exactly what the movie is all about.
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Dec 3, 2017 12:27
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