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Tighclops posted:It's the only Trek thing that makes me angrier the more I think about it, it's so aggressively mediocre in every modern cliche it utilizes. STD is so lame you could use it as an example of why capitalism is poo poo. I have a conspiracy theory that Enterprise, and then especially STD are a targeted subversion of a classical example of a socialist utopia. I have no doubt that the DS9 episode about forming a union would never be allowed today, or the TNG episodes that expressly mention the failures of capitalism. Instead now we only have a jingoistic techno-topia wherein humans are not evolved beyond greed as Roddenberry envisioned, but instead technology advanced to allow a different form of capitalism and nationalism. There is a subtle difference between the two futures of DS9 and STD, and I think it is intentionally changed by those who would shape media for ideological reasons.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:09
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Mike the TV posted:I have a conspiracy theory that Enterprise, and then especially STD are a targeted subversion of a classical example of a socialist utopia. I have no doubt that the DS9 episode about forming a union would never be allowed today, or the TNG episodes that expressly mention the failures of capitalism. Instead now we only have a jingoistic techno-topia wherein humans are not evolved beyond greed as Roddenberry envisioned, but instead technology advanced to allow a different form of capitalism and nationalism. There is a subtle difference between the two futures of DS9 and STD, and I think it is intentionally changed by those who would shape media for ideological reasons. Good thing we have The Orville to straight up go "capitalism is dead and we are better off for it"
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Dec 4, 2017 21:13
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Mike the TV posted:I have a conspiracy theory that Enterprise, and then especially STD are a targeted subversion of a classical example of a socialist utopia. I have no doubt that the DS9 episode about forming a union would never be allowed today, or the TNG episodes that expressly mention the failures of capitalism. Instead now we only have a jingoistic techno-topia wherein humans are not evolved beyond greed as Roddenberry envisioned, but instead technology advanced to allow a different form of capitalism and nationalism. There is a subtle difference between the two futures of DS9 and STD, and I think it is intentionally changed by those who would shape media for ideological reasons. That makes a lot of sense. I like DS9, and I think that the darker tone was needed after TNG, which was sometimes too utopian. But subsequent series post-Voyager have gone too far in the dark and gritty direction. TOS struck a pretty good balance between optimism and realism, and I wish modern Trek could rediscover that balance. I'm really getting tired of dark and gritty. Also, "tech-topia" is such a great term that I might steal it. This is off subject, but I feel like Silicon Valley is trying to move us in that direction, but until now I didn't quite have a term for what I was trying to say.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:16
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Yeah, Orville dropped a few hints that they don't use money anymore ala optimistic trek and last episode even went into more detail that with the invention of replicators money was phased out and they moved to a post-scarcity reputation based economy. Greed is gone but ambition is channeled into advancing your career/reputation by being the best at what ever job/hobby you do. You just don't see poo poo like that in scifi anymore. We can imagine warp drives and all manner of aliens but imagining a future without brutal mega-corps and capitalism and class is just too out there now. Hell even "human society has improved, people are less terrible to each other now" is scoffed at. If your characters aren't constantly in conflict and generally horrible people that means the show doesn't have realistic characters.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:22
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my bony fealty posted:Babylon 5 next for me it is then. I'll miss the Trek verse but I crave that 90s space station drama. Come post in the Babylon 5 thread, although I wouldn't read much of it until you're done for spoilers' sake.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:22
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Mike the TV posted:I have a conspiracy theory that Enterprise, and then especially STD are a targeted subversion of a classical example of a socialist utopia. I have no doubt that the DS9 episode about forming a union would never be allowed today, or the TNG episodes that expressly mention the failures of capitalism. Instead now we only have a jingoistic techno-topia wherein humans are not evolved beyond greed as Roddenberry envisioned, but instead technology advanced to allow a different form of capitalism and nationalism. There is a subtle difference between the two futures of DS9 and STD, and I think it is intentionally changed by those who would shape media for ideological reasons. You know I'm really glad you brought this up because I thought I was just being a paranoid gently caress for thinking this too I distinctly remember some interview after one of the JJTrek movies came out where some executive involved with the production was quoted as saying "where's the seal team six of Star Trek?" as if that were a question anybody were really asking. I'm sure a lot of what's happened to the franchise since 2001 has just been them following the winds of poo poo so to speak, but it's been such a consistent angle for so long one wonders if there hasn't been a deliberate attempt to divest Star Trek of all it's "hippie liberal bullshit."
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Dec 4, 2017 21:25
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Tighclops posted:You know I'm really glad you brought this up because I thought I was just being a paranoid gently caress for thinking this too I wouldn't give them that much credit. More likely it's a low-grade anxiety in the back of their skulls that they justify post-hoc with "focus testing".
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Dec 4, 2017 21:38
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Windows 98 posted:Thank you! Much appreciated Make sure you share your thoughts as you go! I love seeing Trek thoughts from a fresh perspective.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:44
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so I could say that I finally figured out what this god damned cube is doing. Get well Lowtax.
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Halfway through a script reading, it suddenly dawns on the money-men that the message might not be too friendly to them... "Hey, what if we show the REALITY of Trek, y'know, how it doesn't actually work."
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Dec 4, 2017 21:46
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Tighclops posted:I distinctly remember some interview after one of the JJTrek movies came out where some executive involved with the production was quoted as saying "where's the seal team six of Star Trek?" MACO. Next question, dumb exective?
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Dec 4, 2017 21:51
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Fun Star Trek fact, the inside of Gene Roddenberry's grave is actually perfectly smooth
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Dec 4, 2017 21:53
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A turbine has been set up to harness his spinning. It powers a small city block.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:55
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Now they just need a hydroelectric plant to handle the waves and waves of cum
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Dec 4, 2017 21:56
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skasion posted:Now they just need a hydroelectric plant to handle the waves and waves of cum 
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Dec 4, 2017 21:58
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Tighclops posted:I distinctly remember some interview after one of the JJTrek movies came out where some executive involved with the production was quoted as saying "where's the seal team six of Star Trek?" I dunno, an episode about busting an elite military unit that turned out to have been stealing from the federation and murdered an officer to cover it up sounds like the sort of plot DS9 might do.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:04
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I like the way that DS9 handled the more unsavory, less optimistic aspects of the Federation; often it came down to individuals making non-Trekish decisions (hello In the Pale Moonlight) and it is good to acknowledge that the Federation's method is not the only game in town. What is a post-scarcity utopian galactic society supposed to do if an existential threat from the other side of the galaxy invades, lay down and die? Section 31 I'm not sure about. Made for some good tv and Bashir character development, but it was just a little too ambiguous for me, like they couldn't decide if it was truly a totally secret autonomous organization that operated outside the purview of Starfleet Command or if it was just a wink-nudge secret that the Admirals and up were in on and chose to ignore.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:18
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Bet you didn't know about Section Thirty-two! MAUVE SQUAD MAUVE SQUAD MAUVE SQUAD
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Dec 4, 2017 22:24
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Trek has always had a strong ethical core, it's moralizing is what made trek trek. TNG would handle seal team 6 with picard aggressively taking them down and giving an enraged speech about the rules of war and the dangers of thinking the ends justify the means, they would be disbanded and arrested immediately even if that means they can't finish their important missions for starfleet security. DS9 would handle it by Sisko getting enraged but knowing they are critical to the war so he lets them finish their important mission before turning the evidence of their crimes over to starfleet. Section 31 would then whisk them away into hiding after their mission and Sisko would beat himself up that he didn't do the right thing when he had the chance and if officers like him look the other way, even once, in the name of winning the war, what is the federation even fighting for? STD would handle it by making it clear this team are cool badasses just doing what is needed and anyone who claims morality is like probably a hypocrite or something, gosh the the universe sure is dark and gritty but YOLO lets party.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:27
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lol I forgot about that stupid Red Squad episode. The one where the kids have a Defiant-class ship and all the adults were conveniently killed or whatever. That was one of my least faves. And I like Nog!
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Dec 4, 2017 22:28
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Red Squad was bad. At least the good guys are always extremely uncomfortable with Red Squad's existence except Nog, who is portrayed as naive.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:54
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The final bit of Red Squad where Nog is talking to the still-starstruck cadet was really good at least.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:00
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I doubt there's a specific conspiracy here to somehow dog on a representation of functional socialism, because it seems real clear to me that people in general do not actually make plans that good; they just react to events and maybe execute mid-range objectives while constantly tacking towards particular goals, and then later their blundering path to whatever approximation they reach gets hailed as some kind of genius set of maneuvers, because the past is fixed and the future is not. I think we often see heavy conspiracies where the actual reality is some light conspiracy mixed with common reactions to incentives and motivators. This isn't a lot different in the outcome, but it does suggest that change might be easier than we think. ... So to address the actual topic, I suspect it's more "nobody cares about this, can you have more nipple BDSM instead?" than CBS receiving a letter from Tupac saying "make sure SOCIALISM DOESN'T WORK in the NEW STAR TREK."
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Dec 4, 2017 23:19
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The Bloop posted:Bet you didn't know about Section Thirty-two! They're from deep space 69
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Dec 4, 2017 23:33
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Tunicate posted:They're from deep space 69 Back to Lexx now, huh?
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Dec 4, 2017 23:34
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Well there sure as poo poo isn’t any shortage of bombshell mod girls in TOS 
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Dec 4, 2017 23:56
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Windows 98 posted:Well there sure as poo poo isn’t any shortage of bombshell mod girls in TOS Yeah this is one department where all the spinoffs are sadly deficient
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Dec 4, 2017 23:58
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:I can't believe everyone calling TOS a simple "cheese pizza." It's like a 5-cheese, stuffed crust pizza with pepperoni. Maybe it's too cheesy for some people, but if you like that sort of thing, it's the very best. No. Pineapple is good, but a lot of people consider it icky before giving it a shot. Discovery is a pizza with random ingredients that is sort of misshapen. Some of the ingredients are good, but together they turn into a big mess that tastes awful when consumed unless very drunk. You also get a feeling like the chef should have just scrapped it and started over with an actual recipe. Aka my brother's homemade shrimp pizzas.
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Dec 5, 2017 00:08
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Watching Masks. Troi's trying to help a kid be creative Oh gently caress yes here's Data
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Dec 5, 2017 00:13
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I love him
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Dec 5, 2017 00:14
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Riker's anthropomorphizing a comet, which I assume is the first step toward loving it
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Dec 5, 2017 00:17
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Riker's anthropomorphizing a comet, which I assume is the first step toward loving it
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Dec 5, 2017 00:17
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This thread is down on masks but I love it
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Dec 5, 2017 00:18
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Dec 5, 2017 00:19
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Evil Aztec magic that will, likely, seduce Troi
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Dec 5, 2017 00:20
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Data found a way to be creative 
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Dec 5, 2017 00:22
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This is gonna end with Data in ceremonial sun garb atop a ziggurat sacrificing the kid who couldn't sculpt wings right
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Dec 5, 2017 00:26
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Riker's anthropomorphizing a comet, which I assume is the first step toward loving it Hahahahahahaha
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Dec 5, 2017 00:27
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Melting away the comet to reveal the structure embedded is very cool
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Dec 5, 2017 00:27
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"One of the symbols was death." "... the ultimate boundary." Good line
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Dec 5, 2017 00:35
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Seeing Data's internal topography instantly change was creepy for like three seconds then I burst out laughing
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Dec 5, 2017 00:37
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