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I kinda feel like they're gonna need a new thing for the third season, a plot beyond just "win the tournament" like a Gunpla idol group, or a small town trying to revitalize itself by becoming a Gunpla Battle tourist destination
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Dec 8, 2017 22:25
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Meijin's world tour.
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Dec 8, 2017 22:54
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For the love of Christ, no more 3 v 3 fights that poo poo was the worst.
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Dec 8, 2017 23:24
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Monaghan posted:For the love of Christ, no more 3 v 3 fights that poo poo was the worst. If they're still absolutely married to team battles, I think 2v2s would be something interesting to try. You still get a teamwork dynamic, but you've got a much tighter focus so it's easier to give each team member adequate screen time and also less implausible to end up with 1v1 situations. It also means that you can give more opposing teams actual personality instead of having a bunch of "one real character and two mooks" teams. BF Try could have been interesting if it was a two person team of Fumina/Yuuma or Fumina/Sekai with Yuuma as their gunpla mechanic(like Sei to Reiji in BF).
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Dec 8, 2017 23:55
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Kanos posted:BF Try could have been interesting if it was a two person team of Fumina/Yuuma[...]. I'll stop you there because, let's be honest, this was the only real way to fix Try. That alone would make a gigantic difference.
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Dec 9, 2017 00:03
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Hell, leave out Yuuma as well.
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Dec 9, 2017 00:12
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Blaze Dragon posted:I'll stop you there because, let's be honest, this was the only real way to fix Try. That alone would make a gigantic difference. I'll continue waving the flag that Sekai is not an inherently terrible character and the only thing that made him utterly terrible was the show pushing him like he was Poochy and making the entire world revolve around him. A meathead martial artist refining his technique via Gunpla Battle to the point of developing Gunpla-exclusive techniques is a loving incredible idea with a huge amount of potential hilarious material to work with.
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Dec 9, 2017 00:57
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Sekai should have been the overly enthusiastic teammate, and everything else happening (every girl crushing on him, him just wanting good fights etc) would be ok, but Fumina or even Yuuki (with better development, and let's be real he's a boy so he'd get the lead over fumina) should have been the actual lead; at least in the fights.
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Dec 9, 2017 01:01
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Team fights, even over an entire show, are perfectly doable, it just requires a defter hand than 1v1s. It's just that BFT failed miserably on every level at doing so, since basically everything had to be about Sekai for some godforsaken reason. So it's not like team fights, even 3v3s, being a part of the next BF would necessarily be terrible, it's just that whoever's directing the show needs to know how to actually rotate characters and have them work together without any particular one completely dominating everything.
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Dec 9, 2017 01:02
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The boxer guy was Sekai but done way better. Sekai as he is is a nothing character. He, Minato, and Gyanko were also the only entertaining opponents. chumbler fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Dec 9, 2017 |
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Dec 9, 2017 01:10
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I reckon that mobile suits caught on initially because humanity really has no loving clue how to fight a war in space, so a machine that can act as a fighter jet and an infantryman and a battleship at the same time kinda forces a paradigm shift. I mean, in real life, apart from launching missiles and throwing rocks at each other with mass drivers, most other forms of warfare in space seem pretty dumb. And the same would be said for the Gundam franchise as well, had it not used their fictional minovsky physics to put the limitations in place that would let a machine like a mobile suit thrive in combat.
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Dec 9, 2017 06:51
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Dec 9, 2017 07:09
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don't skip leg day.
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Dec 9, 2017 07:35
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Arcsquad12 posted:I reckon that mobile suits caught on initially because humanity really has no loving clue how to fight a war in space, so a machine that can act as a fighter jet and an infantryman and a battleship at the same time kinda forces a paradigm shift. I mean, in real life, apart from launching missiles and throwing rocks at each other with mass drivers, most other forms of warfare in space seem pretty dumb. And the same would be said for the Gundam franchise as well, had it not used their fictional minovsky physics to put the limitations in place that would let a machine like a mobile suit thrive in combat. Nah, it's just that giant robots are cool. Realistically, even with magical particles making long-range targeting and the like useless, virtually anything you can do with a humanoid war machine you can do far better with something with less moving parts - i.e. a mobile armor. Incidentally, this carries true for very nearly every universe that uses giant robots, with Battletech being another prime example. The one fringe exception is extremely heavy terrain that normal vehicles can't really get into, but even then it's dubious, as the kind of gyrostabilized technology needed to keep good balance for mobile suits could probably still be repurposed for a more effective war machine. And this exception completely goes away once flight technology becomes commonplace.
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Dec 9, 2017 08:17
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Lord Koth posted:Nah, it's just that giant robots are cool. Realistically, even with magical particles making long-range targeting and the like useless, virtually anything you can do with a humanoid war machine you can do far better with something with less moving parts - i.e. a mobile armor. Incidentally, this carries true for very nearly every universe that uses giant robots, with Battletech being another prime example. I'm not trying to justify the use of mobile suits realistically. Pretty much anything would be better than them. The point I want to make is that we are really bad at figuring out just how space combat will effectively be fought, considering how easy it will be to just use direct fire kinetic weapons to annihilate things from thousands of kilometers away. It's not that mobile suits were a good idea, (they aren't), it is that the insistence on using outdated naval tactics in space resulted in a situation where something as insane as a giant robot infantryman could easily wipe the floor with an enemy force designed around Earth-based tactics and gravity. If we wanted to look at Gundam in a realistic sense, the Federation's greatest failure was comping to Zeon's strategy of fighting with mobile suits, rather than designing new tactics and machines that render the short term advantages the mobile suits held over battleships obsolete. I mean, look at the pre-OYW combat vessels in space. They're literally battleships and what look like Tie Bombers if they were built out of scrap metal. Nobody had any idea how to fight a space war. You can't just treat space like a three dimensional ocean and assume the same tactics of fleets and aircraft will work as well. The greatest advantage that a mobile suit has over a battleship is its AMBAC system and its ability to carry a similar arsenal. If I was developing an anti-MS weapon, finding a way to counter its ability to shift its center of gravity to dodge incoming fire would be my priority. The simplest solution is the one we use in real life: make your bullets travel faster. The reaction time of a suit using AMBAC maneuvering can only go so far before it rips the suit apart or pastes the pilot onto his cockpit walls. So shoot something that flies faster than an MS can react to. Like a piloted bullet that shoots faster bullets, or something. Something like a guided canister shot that uses tracking until minovsky interference kicks in, and then detonates into a widespread shotgun blast. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Dec 9, 2017 |
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Dec 9, 2017 08:25
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Lord Koth posted:Nah, it's just that giant robots are cool. Realistically, even with magical particles making long-range targeting and the like useless, virtually anything you can do with a humanoid war machine you can do far better with something with less moving parts - i.e. a mobile armor. Incidentally, this carries true for very nearly every universe that uses giant robots, with Battletech being another prime example. I'd love to see more settings that lean into it, rather than hand-wave it. Five Star Stories is just "we know it's impractical, but, guess what, it's also chivalrous and we're advanced enough to get away with it".
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Dec 9, 2017 09:30
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Mimir posted:we know it's impractical, but, guess what, it's also chivalrous
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Dec 9, 2017 09:42
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PMush Perfect posted:Incidentally, this would also work as an excuse in BattleTech if the Inner Sphere didn't exist. Isn't that how it is in the IS pre-clans?
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Dec 9, 2017 09:43
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The Clans' pre-IS solution instead of war was "two representatives duke it out with giant robots". Then the IS showed up and sucker punched them basically immediately.
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Dec 9, 2017 09:48
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Mimir posted:I'd love to see more settings that lean into it, rather than hand-wave it. Five Star Stories is just "we know it's impractical, but, guess what, it's also chivalrous and we're advanced enough to get away with it". I think my favourite I've seen was a high tech civilization that just went and poo poo all over everyone lower down the food chain, using mecha just because they could. Then when all the conquered planets start to rebel they do so with mecha because it is the industry standard, not because it is effective.
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Dec 9, 2017 09:52
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Caros posted:I think my favourite I've seen was a high tech civilization that just went and poo poo all over everyone lower down the food chain, using mecha just because they could. Then when all the conquered planets start to rebel they do so with mecha because it is the industry standard, not because it is effective. Part of it, broadly speaking, is very effective psychological warfare. Seeing a Tank in a street is one thing, but a giant unstoppable human figure ripping through the sides of buildings with its bare hands (or oversized weapons) is another.
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Dec 9, 2017 11:24
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Looking at all this discussion, it's kind of interesting how IBO used almost all the excuses in the book. Ahab Waves kill long range sensors and any unshielded equipment. Nano Laminate Armor means that combat has to be up close and personal. Alaya-Vijnana System means that humanoid weapons control easiest on the most advanced level They even have a tradition of Mobile Suit based honor duels and a government using them as a symbol of unquestioned control. You don't usually get the full spread like that. Most shows stick to a couple, if they bother at all.
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Dec 9, 2017 13:09
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Part of it, broadly speaking, is very effective psychological warfare. Seeing a Tank in a street is one thing, but a giant unstoppable human figure ripping through the sides of buildings with its bare hands (or oversized weapons) is another. I doubt it. I mean, I'm neither a psychologist nor a soldier, but that kind of psychological warfare seems like something that would have a very short shelf life. The first time you see something new and unknown it's going to elicit fear regardless so long as it's big, but once you've seen it in action that fear will subside because you know, at least roughly, what it's capable of and will have some idea how to work around it. It'll probably help if you see it beaten as well, since you'll now know it's possible. The first time soldiers saw tanks was probably terrifying as well, but again, within a couple of encounters they were just a normal, accepted thing. tsob fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Dec 9, 2017 |
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Dec 9, 2017 13:26
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PMush Perfect posted:The Clans' pre-IS solution instead of war was "two representatives duke it out with giant robots". Then the IS showed up and sucker punched them basically immediately. It was actually the other way around (the IS is doing its space opera poo poo, the clans invade and try to hold the IS to their cultural standards, and immediately get suckered,) which is why it's so hilarious.
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Dec 9, 2017 14:03
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I always got the impression that MS development only really went nuts because it was what the other guys were dumping R&D into. At first the Zaku show up and smash the federation, surprising them with a new form of combat. They couldn’t quickly come up with their own way to combat mobile suits, in addition to their own MS development showing the troops they can do it too. Zeon keeps ramping up their crazy designs because for them it’s what’s working and is winning the war for a bit. The federation keeps trying to catch up (then surpassing) and soon everyone’s wrapped up in this particular form of weapons race for the next two hundred years. Also because giant robots are cool and sell toys.
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Dec 9, 2017 14:18
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tsob posted:I doubt it. I mean, I'm neither a psychologist nor a soldier, but that kind of psychological warfare seems like something that would have a very short shelf life. The first time you see something new and unknown it's going to elicit fear regardless so long as it's big, but once you've seen it in action that fear will subside because you know, at least roughly, what it's capable of and will have some idea how to work around it. It'll probably help if you see it beaten as well, since you'll now know it's possible. The first time soldiers saw tanks was probably terrifying as well, but again, within a couple of encounters they were just a normal, accepted thing. i seem to recall that the first use of tanks in WW1 went disastrously because the tanks were really bad and could be outrun by your average infantry
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Dec 9, 2017 14:44
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:It was actually the other way around (the IS is doing its space opera poo poo, the clans invade and try to hold the IS to their cultural standards, and immediately get suckered,) which is why it's so hilarious. Yeah it's the Clans who were the weirdo newbies trying to kick over the IS' sandcastles.
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Dec 9, 2017 15:17
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ninjewtsu posted:i seem to recall that the first use of tanks in WW1 went disastrously because the tanks were really bad and could be outrun by your average infantry No, the first deployment of tanks in WW1 was a success because they could run over barbed wire and trenches. A lot of them broke down on the way because the first tanks were super lovely, but a bunch made it through enemy lines. The real problem was that they had so few tanks, they weren't able to press the enormous advantage the new machines gave them. Churchill was angry for decades afterwards, arguing that if they had listened to him and waited until they had hundreds of tanks ready to go, they could've ended the war before the Germans figured out anti-tank measures
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Dec 9, 2017 15:27
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PMush Perfect posted:Incidentally, this would also work as an excuse in BattleTech if the Inner Sphere didn't exist. The Inner Sphere is literally a collection of noble houses ruled by hereditary monarchies. One of the factions even has a celebrated elite unit of mechwarriors sworn to uphold the ideals of chivalry called the Knights of the Inner Sphere, and another faction's military is sworn to uphold bushido. There's a lot of honor-and-chivalry cruft built into the setting simply because it's structured off feudal monarchies. The Clans go extremely hard on the "one on one honorable combat" poo poo, and they're the ones who aggressively invaded before only being barely held off by the Inner Sphere(who had vastly, vastly inferior technology; to use a Gundam example, the Inner Sphere was using poo poo from Mobile Suit Gundam and the Clans were fielding poo poo from F91).
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Dec 9, 2017 15:35
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Guy Goodbody posted:No, the first deployment of tanks in WW1 was a success because they could run over barbed wire and trenches. A lot of them broke down on the way because the first tanks were super lovely, but a bunch made it through enemy lines. The real problem was that they had so few tanks, they weren't able to press the enormous advantage the new machines gave them. Churchill was angry for decades afterwards, arguing that if they had listened to him and waited until they had hundreds of tanks ready to go, they could've ended the war before the Germans figured out anti-tank measures Cambrai very nearly did just that. A massed tank assault smashed a huge hole in the hindenberg line, but mechanical failures and a German counterattack from the northeast end of the salient closed the gap up again.
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Dec 9, 2017 15:50
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As a note regarding Battletech, it's kind of funny just how much the actual rules for the game desperately reinforce the point that "No, really, mechs are the superior weapon of war" by giving vehicles a significant chance of taking critical damage every time they take a hit, no matter how minor - something mysteriously lacking from mechs despite that they should be far more vulnerable to that kind of golden bb attack. And any completely new weapon will generally be fairly terrifying at first, but that fades as people get used to them. The real issue after that is whether you can damage one bearing down upon you - that tank bearing down on modern infantry is still extremely terrifying if they don't happen to have AT capability readily accessible, after all. Mimir posted:I'd love to see more settings that lean into it, rather than hand-wave it. Five Star Stories is just "we know it's impractical, but, guess what, it's also chivalrous and we're advanced enough to get away with it". Haven't read/seen this, so I might check it out. 40k Titans probably fall into the same category, in that there'd probably be something more efficient to build, like a Bolo, but at the point you're adding massive layers of energy shielding on your weapon, and building it so large terrain is mostly an afterthought, it doesn't really matter any more what it looks like.
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Dec 9, 2017 16:58
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One of the best bits of 40k was about the Tau. They believed all the rumors of skyscraper sized walking machines was a myth, because no army would be stupid enough to waste their resources on something so useless. Then they actually saw one in action, and suddenly realized what kind of setting they were stuck in and just how moronic warfare had become. So instead they built giant carrier gunships to kill titans. Of course then 7th edition rolled out and the Tau got their own titan robots.
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Dec 9, 2017 17:34
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Guy Goodbody posted:I kinda feel like they're gonna need a new thing for the third season, a plot beyond just "win the tournament" Winning tournaments works just fine for a ton of excellent sports anime tho
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Dec 9, 2017 17:54
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The Tau in general are always the best part of 40k because they keep thinking the universe is a much friendlier and sane place than it is and somehow haven't been horribly turbo-exterminated by the rest of its denizens yet, despite their attempts to try.
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Dec 9, 2017 17:54
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Srice posted:Winning tournaments works just fine for a ton of excellent sports anime tho
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Dec 9, 2017 19:07
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I personally would be extremely down for a 12 ep build fighters series that's just some kid who wants to be the next meijin traveling around Japan, having adventures and solving gunpla crime
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Dec 9, 2017 21:03
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I personally would be extremely down for a 12 ep build fighters series that's just some kid who wants to be the next meijin traveling around Japan, having adventures and solving gunpla crime A procedural gunpla detective show would be amazing.
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Dec 9, 2017 21:53
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L&O: Gunpla Crimes
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Dec 9, 2017 22:51
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Paper Kaiju posted:A procedural gunpla detective show would be amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcxcjTr_Pm4
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Dec 10, 2017 00:17
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| # ? May 24, 2024 23:36 |
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I don't know why I'm even surprised anymore.
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Dec 10, 2017 01:07
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