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The safe answer is that lamp cord is cheap, don't burn your house down trying to save a few bucks. The long answer is that if the copper inside isn't visibly damaged it's probably fine to tape it up and use it, but I'd still try to keep that as short term of a thing as possible. Again, lamp cord is cheap and invisible damage could still result in the wire overheating.
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Dec 7, 2017 05:30
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wolrah posted:I wouldn't be surprised to find out that someone did something stupid with the wiring, but before raising an alarm it probably wouldn't hurt to do an idiot check. Pull all the fuses at once and see if that circuit still works. Yeah I'll double check tomorrow (when we don't need the lights on), but I remember testing exactly this and yes, I pulled all the fuses, and the circuit still worked. Probably a good time to let the landlord know.
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Dec 7, 2017 05:45
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wolrah posted:The safe answer is that lamp cord is cheap, don't burn your house down trying to save a few bucks. On top of this, fixing it right is not difficult. Won't take much longer than slapping some tape on it.
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Dec 7, 2017 05:53
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Okay, thanks. Are there looked lamp replacement cords at home Depot?
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Dec 7, 2017 13:05
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Would this work? Just googled 'lamp cord replacement' https://www.homedepot.com/p/Westinghouse-8-ft-SPT-1-Gold-Cord-Set-7010500/206599201
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Dec 7, 2017 14:51
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extravadanza posted:Would this work? Just googled 'lamp cord replacement' Ya something like that should work, thanks. I'll stop by a home Depot tonight or something
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Dec 7, 2017 15:04
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The Slack Lagoon posted:Ya something like that should work, thanks. I'll stop by a home Depot tonight or something Just make sure to match the polarity of the plug to your old one. One wire is the hot, the other is neutral. If the lamp is built correctly, it shouldn't matter, but I've seen lamps that had the neutral touching the metal tubing. You don't want to make the outside of the lamp live.
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Dec 7, 2017 15:19
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Also thanks, thread!
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Dec 7, 2017 20:08
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sharkytm posted:Just make sure to match the polarity of the plug to your old one. One wire is the hot, the other is neutral. If the lamp is built correctly, it shouldn't matter, but I've seen lamps that had the neutral touching the metal tubing. You don't want to make the outside of the lamp live. If the lamp is built properly and has a two-prong plug, then the neutral MUST be joined to any metal bits of the device that can become energized.
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Dec 8, 2017 01:51
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Wouldn't that be ground, not neutral? e: Oh, two-prong. Well, I dunno.
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Dec 8, 2017 01:57
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sharkytm posted:Just make sure to match the polarity of the plug to your old one. One wire is the hot, the other is neutral. If the lamp is built correctly, it shouldn't matter, but I've seen lamps that had the neutral touching the metal tubing. You don't want to make the outside of the lamp live. It's not completely apparent just by looking at the cord, but one side is ribbed, for her pleasure. That's the neutral. Generally, the neutral is always more apparent: ribbed cord, wider prong, silver screw, etc.
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Dec 8, 2017 05:20
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:If the lamp is built properly and has a two-prong plug, then the neutral MUST be joined to any metal bits of the device that can become energized. I wasn't aware of this and it gave me the heebie jeebies, but thinking about it this makes total sense. I guess you just need to be really careful you don't have any loose neutrals/aren't touching any pipes! I never put together "conductive housing should be bonded to the neutral on 2-prong devices" with why GFCIs are so important in wet areas (I assumed the fault being protected against was something more dramatic).
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Dec 8, 2017 18:30
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Man this lamp was not made for replacing the cord. Luckily handy dandy dental floss was on hand to feed the wire through. Here's the old cord.
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Dec 8, 2017 20:29
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Hubis posted:I wasn't aware of this and it gave me the heebie jeebies, but thinking about it this makes total sense. I guess you just need to be really careful you don't have any loose neutrals/aren't touching any pipes! I never put together "conductive housing should be bonded to the neutral on 2-prong devices" with why GFCIs are so important in wet areas (I assumed the fault being protected against was something more dramatic). Yeah. If you don't have a separate ground to bond everything to (and you don't with a 2-prong) then everything that could possibly be accidentally current-carrying has to be bonded to the neutral wire. That way, if ANYTHING becomes hot, the lamp catches fire and/or the breaker pops. Both of these things let you know not to touch the device.
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Dec 9, 2017 03:24
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The Slack Lagoon posted:Man this lamp was not made for replacing the cord. Luckily handy dandy dental floss was on hand to feed the wire through. Here's the old cord. If it's any condolence, that mouse chewed through the hot side. I bet he got a tingle at least! And you're right about light fixtures in general being a pain to rewire. My mom bought a chandelier at an auction that she just had to have, so it was up to me to rewire it. Each arm was total pain in the rear end to thread the wire through. There wasn't enough slack and the hole wasn't wide enough to just attach the new wire to the old and pull it through. Each arm was this real curly S shape of cast brass, and I soon discovered that each little point off of the ornately decorated arms had a little pocket inside it from the casting. Worse yet, they pointed in both directions, so that any attempts to push wire through would snag on one. Eventually I managed to get a fishing line (20 pound test) with a tiny fishing weight threaded through each arm with a lot of shaking it down from above. That was enough to pull new wire through. But that's not the end of it just yet! Remember those little casting pockets inside? They must have had burrs on the edges. Just to be safe, I got out my multimeter and tested for continuity between each arm and its 2 wires. That should NOT be a circuit. Well, one wire was. Another half hour of bitching and threading fishing line and I got safe wire pulled through. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Dec 9, 2017 |
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Dec 9, 2017 19:47
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kid sinister posted:If it's any condolence, that mouse chewed through the hot side. I bet he got a tingle at least! How are you identifying the chewed side as hot?
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Dec 9, 2017 19:50
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Messadiah posted:How are you identifying the chewed side as hot? Lamp cord is polarized. The hot side is smooth and the neutral is ribbed, for her pleasure. The chewed side isn't ribbed. Wait a minute, that cord is so old, it isn't polarized. Welp, modern cord is. Admittedly, this is AC power. The device will work if plugged in either way, or even if you clipped the wider prong down to the other's size. So why have polarized cords for AC power? Safety. If you can control the way it's plugged in and which wire is hot, then you can put the switch a lot sooner in the device and have the least amount of wire still energized inside the device even it's turned off. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Dec 9, 2017 |
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Dec 9, 2017 19:51
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Replacing a lamp cord was one of my first electrical lessons way, way back in my younger days. You'll figure out pretty quick something isn't right with the plug.
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Dec 9, 2017 22:52
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:If the lamp is built properly and has a two-prong plug, then the neutral MUST be joined to any metal bits of the device that can become energized. I was thinking about a three prong cord, sorry. But yeah, I'm glad you matched the polarity for the two prong cord too!
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Dec 9, 2017 22:59
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:However, he's an engineer and this system is WILDLY overbuilt. My original suggestion was to wire an outlet into a switched line from one of his lights, then take one of the plug-in transformers and plug it in, then just run 12V stuff willy-nilly throughout the house. HycoCam posted:Putting an outlet above the cabinets works really well. You can do some cool stuff as a homeowner with 12v and 24v RGBW strip lights. Just a few ideas: I always get overwhelmed with options trying to do things like this, get frustrated, and give up. Looking for project lists always lands me on people who are really OK with super glarey ugly light. How do you pick the light strips? The transformers? How do the strips... hook together at arbitrary lengths? There are 10000 chinesnium options on any site you visit, and then they're all just getting them from alibaba or similar anyways. Do you just sort of order a bunch of parts and hope it all works?  I started a spreadsheet with ideas and largely whatever the first thing that came up googling. Thanks for the link to the metal channels, those should be perfect.https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12pAm0tpzJvHJFLpiWB3ZJXHLRf_pjV-VjARBVYg_qP0/edit#gid=0 I have two different counter areas I'm trying to light. I will be able to see these lights while seated at the dining room table, so I want the light to be diffused, not have much if any glare, and generally not look like my toddler banged it together off a youtube video. My primary kitchen counter area, including above the sink, and then a second area next to my stove. They both have the same cabinetry installed and have room under them to screw/stick/whatever some lights, however the cabinetry extends to the ceiling so nothing can be hidden above them, just inside them. Primary / Above the sink:   That is switched power already, and I hate those can lights with all of my heart. I assume something is also wrong with the wiring in that box, I haven't opened it, that is in a cabinet above my sink. I would like to fix whatever wiring issues are present (clamp the cables? Is that romex even allowed to be exposed there? I can measure it, but I don't think it's 8' off the ground), replace the cans with... something?, and then add ~3 positions worth of LED strip lights some to the left, some to the right. Here I'm not sure if I should hardwire or add an outlet. 6 of 1 half dozen of the other? All I know is I want the lights to be controlled by the existing light switch. From there in the cabinets run 20AWG wire (bell wire?) along the back of them, then between the various cabinet sections. Stove area:  Always on appliance outlet, 20A circuit, 12AWG wire, and a 15A outlet. This drives my microwave, exhaust hood, and over stove light. My idea is to R&R the outlet with a 20A TR, plug in a 120vac->12vdc transformer and run a single ~18" strip of lights off it. Looks like there are USB options as well - maybe I will just slap a USB wall wart in there and be done with it. Everything up there gets greasy, such to the extent that we only store things up there we use extremely rarely as it will always need to be washed before use. Sorry for the wall of text. If there is a great how to guide or a kit for this I've missed I'm all ears.
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Dec 10, 2017 01:38
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H110Hawk posted:Always on appliance outlet, 20A circuit, 12AWG wire, and a 15A outlet. This drives my microwave, exhaust hood, and over stove light. My idea is to R&R the outlet with a 20A TR, plug in a 120vac->12vdc transformer and run a single ~18" strip of lights off it. Looks like there are USB options as well - maybe I will just slap a USB wall wart in there and be done with it. Everything up there gets greasy, such to the extent that we only store things up there we use extremely rarely as it will always need to be washed before use.
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Dec 10, 2017 03:12
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H110Hawk posted:Primary / Above the sink: Who the hell wired your place? They kind of forgot to use conduit in an exposed place, a couple box clamps and to keep all the wire nuts inside the boxes.
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Dec 10, 2017 22:51
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kid sinister posted:Who the hell wired your place? They kind of forgot to use conduit in an exposed place, a couple box clamps and to keep all the wire nuts inside the boxes. That was done by the venerable "prior owners", along with several other lovely things we uncovered. It's always been too low on the list, but the under cabinate lighting idea would bump it up.
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Dec 10, 2017 23:16
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Anyone know offhand if California's code accepts outlets built into the backs of cabinets? I want to move my dishwasher off of an outlet that's switched (used for the garbage disposal, so whenever I want to wash dishes I have to unplug the garbage disposal, then flip the switch). There's an outlet above the counter that's in a good spot vertically; I was thinking of just dropping a line down from it and punching through the back of the cabinet to install an outlet. The cabinets are permanently installed, so I thought I'd secure the outlet to the cabinet rather than the wall behind it; it'd make installation easier. My googling has turned up a few "sounds okay in my state but check your local code" but I don't really know where to look and the NEC is gigantic.
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Dec 11, 2017 00:39
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Anyone know offhand if California's code accepts outlets built into the backs of cabinets? I want to move my dishwasher off of an outlet that's switched (used for the garbage disposal, so whenever I want to wash dishes I have to unplug the garbage disposal, then flip the switch). There's an outlet above the counter that's in a good spot vertically; I was thinking of just dropping a line down from it and punching through the back of the cabinet to install an outlet. The cabinets are permanently installed, so I thought I'd secure the outlet to the cabinet rather than the wall behind it; it'd make installation easier. You could always ask you local city, or county if you live somewhere unincorporated. City might just refer you to county anyway.
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Dec 11, 2017 02:46
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Anyone know offhand if California's code accepts outlets built into the backs of cabinets? I want to move my dishwasher off of an outlet that's switched (used for the garbage disposal, so whenever I want to wash dishes I have to unplug the garbage disposal, then flip the switch). There's an outlet above the counter that's in a good spot vertically; I was thinking of just dropping a line down from it and punching through the back of the cabinet to install an outlet. The cabinets are permanently installed, so I thought I'd secure the outlet to the cabinet rather than the wall behind it; it'd make installation easier. Look at the wiring for the outlet and switch and see if you can't make the outlet half-switched. Then you can have the disposal on the switched half and the dishwasher on the unswitched half.
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Dec 11, 2017 11:57
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Look at the wiring for the outlet and switch and see if you can't make the outlet half-switched. Then you can have the disposal on the switched half and the dishwasher on the unswitched half. Already looked at this; sadly it's not possible. That would have been the ideal solution though, yeah.
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Dec 11, 2017 16:26
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Already looked at this; sadly it's not possible. That would have been the ideal solution though, yeah. In that case, I'm going to be the rogue and say do what looks clean and anyone who cares to look won't think twice about whether it's "to code" or not. In general, if your cabinet is affixed to the structure, then it's permanent, and any permanent wiring method is acceptable. That being said, you probably need a box in the wall and not just a gaping hole. The Right Way to do this is to cut a largish hole in the back of the cabinet and install an old-work box and outlet in the drywall. I'm not sure how much gap there is between the back of the cabinet and the wall and how you want (or if you want) to seal that gap with anything. An alternative way is to punch a very small round hole in the cabinet and drywall and run some metal-clad cable to a box in the cabinet. The Probably Wrong Way is to just cut in an old-work box in the cabinet, poke a hole in the wall, and fish your Romex to the back of the cabinet. That's the way most homeowners and shoddy repairmen would do it, so it's sure to attract attention.
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Dec 11, 2017 19:51
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I'd definitely want the box to be securely installed and to have a properly-clamped and not-exposed run of Romex. I wouldn't mind having a gap between the wall and the back of the cabinet; nobody's ever going to be looking back there. But no matter what I'm looking at some pretty unpleasant work doing this, since the cabinet in question is four drawers arranged vertically, so everything's going to have to be done by reaching through holes in the front that are maybe 12"x7" or something. There's enough space to do the work without the backs of the drawers running into anything, but it's gonna be a cramped installation job. ...in fact, given that constraint, I have no idea how I'm going to be able to get the necessary angles to screw down the box. Hrm. The metal-clad route would be tempting then, since it'd be easier to find space to put the box if the box were just sitting in the interior of the cabinet and the only hole in the back was to admit the cable. But it'd be a less elegant solution otherwise. I guess I'll play it by ear depending on how hard it actually is to work with the back of the wall. Thanks for the suggestions!
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Dec 11, 2017 20:10
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Anyone know offhand if California's code accepts outlets built into the backs of cabinets? I want to move my dishwasher off of an outlet that's switched (used for the garbage disposal, so whenever I want to wash dishes I have to unplug the garbage disposal, then flip the switch). There's an outlet above the counter that's in a good spot vertically; I was thinking of just dropping a line down from it and punching through the back of the cabinet to install an outlet. The cabinets are permanently installed, so I thought I'd secure the outlet to the cabinet rather than the wall behind it; it'd make installation easier. Is it not feasible to replace the /2 wire between the switch and outlet with /3 using the /2 as a fish tape? Then you could have 1 leg be switched and 1leg be always hot like a ceiling fan. Either way, I bet your dishwasher wants to be on its own dedicated circuit.
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Dec 11, 2017 20:45
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H110Hawk posted:Is it not feasible to replace the /2 wire between the switch and outlet with /3 using the /2 as a fish tape? Then you could have 1 leg be switched and 1leg be always hot like a ceiling fan. You might not even need fish tape if the switch is directly above the outlet. Unfortunately for OP, most houses at least in the US like putting windows above the kitchen sink, which means mounting the disposal switch over at least one wall cavity. Otherwise, the easiest option would probably be either removing the box out of the wall then drilling down into the basement, or drilling up from the basement. The second one takes a lot of measuring to hit the right wall cavity. Measure from other landmarks like the water pipes for the sink coming up from the basement.
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Dec 12, 2017 23:29
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Ha ha ha, basements. I live in California, my ground floor is directly on top of a concrete slab. And yeah, the switch is 1 or 2 studs over from the switched outlet, and I'm pretty sure I'd rather deal with installing a new box in the back of a cabinet than I would with trying to fish new wire to the existing outlet. At least if I screw up the new outlet, I just have a hole in the back of a cabinet; if I screw up fishing wire, then I lose the switched outlet. Realistically the easiest way to make the outlet half-switched would be to tear open the drywall in the bathroom on the other side of the wall. Still more intrusive than I want to deal with. Is there a particular reason to disfavor adding a new outlet in the back of a cabinet?
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Dec 12, 2017 23:57
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Update on dishwasher chat: I swung by the building and planning office and asked their expert. His opinion was that we're already in code violation territory because the dishwasher is supposed to be on its own circuit. But since it isn't, the minimal change would be to set up an air switch for the garbage disposal, which is something I'd never heard of before but apparently is basically a wall wart you plug the disposal into, with a wire going to a pushbutton switch that you install on the sink. With that in place, the dishwasher and garbage disposal can be plugged into the same outlet and the switch can be replaced by a blank faceplate. He did also confirm that if I had a separate circuit for the dishwasher, it'd be okay for its outlet to be in the back of a cabinet, so long as it was possible to unplug the dishwasher if it needed to be removed or serviced. I guess this just gives me extra incentive to get my house rewired -- the current panel has all of 12 slots in it, all of which are full, two with split breakers. Predictably, the actual circuits in the house are kind of a mess.
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Dec 14, 2017 02:21
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Update on dishwasher chat: I swung by the building and planning office and asked their expert. His opinion was that we're already in code violation territory because the dishwasher is supposed to be on its own circuit. But since it isn't, the minimal change would be to set up an air switch for the garbage disposal, which is something I'd never heard of before but apparently is basically a wall wart you plug the disposal into, with a wire going to a pushbutton switch that you install on the sink. With that in place, the dishwasher and garbage disposal can be plugged into the same outlet and the switch can be replaced by a blank faceplate. Yup. The thing about using plugs as disconnects for appliances is that they need to be accessible. For kitchen mounted appliances, that means being able to reach the plug while the appliance is in place. For big, mounted stuff like microwaves and dishwashers, that means mounting the outlet in the next cabinet over, drilling a hole in between and threading the cord through that. I assume you're talking about tandem breakers? You could probably get one more in.
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Dec 14, 2017 02:30
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Yeah, tandem breaker, I forgot the correct term. Thanks. I could maybe fit another one or two breakers into the panel, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if I just had a modern panel with 24+ slots in it. And if the circuits made a lick of sense. I have a circuit that powers outlets in two rooms (but not all the outlets, of course) and lights on the second floor.
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Dec 14, 2017 03:03
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Enjoy this one guys. It might make you run and hide under the blankets. https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/128773/why-does-my-homes-power-fade-and-surge-when-i-plug-things-in I don't even know where to start with this, but I say the safe money is that he doesn't have a home anymore. 
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Dec 14, 2017 08:47
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IndianaZoidberg posted:Enjoy this one guys. It might make you run and hide under the blankets. I like how the people responding assume, even after his description of his fubar electric work, that the dimming/going bright is the utility's problem.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:19
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angryrobots posted:I like how the people responding assume, even after his description of his fubar electric work, that the dimming/going bright is the utility's problem. Because it is (if they are responsible to the meter). It's clearly an open neutral. Then he needs to un-monkeyfuck what he did.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:48
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Motronic posted:Because it is (if they are responsible to the meter). It's clearly an open neutral. Then he needs to un-monkeyfuck what he did. This dude has a >300' 4awg AL underground service metered at the road, besides the crazy house wiring. I would bet money the open neutral is on his side. Lmao, my voltage drop calculator for sizing services doesn't even have values for #4AL, but with #2AL, at 245v supply, with 150amps load he'll be at 218/109v at the house entrance, nevermind at point of use. For reference, 300' is the point where we upgrade to 350mcm instead of standard 4/0 for a regular 200A service.
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Dec 14, 2017 19:07
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angryrobots posted:This dude has a >300' 4awg AL underground service metered at the road  I just scanned it and went "yep, open neutral" and obviously missed those details. Hoo boy.
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Dec 14, 2017 21:21
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