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Couldn't help it, touched the poo Me. As a society the US requires us to work in order to meet our basic needs for food and shelter. If we can't expect those needs to be fulfilled by either employment or government, how can we expect them to be met? 2. The simplest answer is a dead simple government program. Like a negative income tax. Then we can use the market to meet our needs without relying on governments or corporations for benefits.
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 00:34 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 21:41 |
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Wh.. What does this person think a negative income tax is? And what does it have to do with markets? What???
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 01:05 |
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AShamefulDisplay posted:Couldn't help it, touched the poo So a libertarian is trying to describe a UBI but is too broken to figure it out properly?
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 01:22 |
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Xerzes posted:So a libertarian is trying to describe a UBI but is too broken to figure it out properly? That was my original read, too. But I think they might actually mean "the government pays you for making money." As in, "you are taxed -10% of your earned income."
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 01:36 |
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And... where does the government get that money from?
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 01:37 |
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Xerzes posted:So a libertarian is trying to describe a UBI but is too broken to figure it out properly? Yeah pretty much this.
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 02:09 |
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OwlFancier posted:And... where does the government get that money from? They'll FIRE UP THE PRINTING PRESSES
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 02:27 |
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OwlFancier posted:And... where does the government get that money from? let me tell you about this awesome new digital currency called
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 02:32 |
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Do you mean the one that's currently being accidentally ddosed by a collectible cat picture minigame, or the one that has goddamned futures contracts on it?Minrad posted:I like to imagine im hearing a few more notes from in the hall of the mountain king every time a new bitcoin news headline appears
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 02:41 |
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Goon Danton posted:Do you mean the one that's currently being accidentally ddosed by a collectible cat picture minigame, or the one that has goddamned futures contracts on it? Please continue.
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 05:48 |
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I was going to stop but they just keep giving more free content.dumbass1 posted:I tend to think of rights and responsibilities in terms of if we were living on a desert island; I suppose this is similar to what Locke or Hobbes would have called a "state of nature". dumbass 2 posted:Because it is no longer possible to go back to those things (minus a couple of protected groups like indigenous people). There is no land to farm on or to hunt on, without money. Besides 7 billion people is far beyond what our planet can sustain with such systems. We need the complex economy (for example the power of markets) to have any hope for sustaining that many people with the limited resources of our planet. AShamefulDisplay fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Dec 13, 2017 |
# ? Dec 13, 2017 06:15 |
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White Coke posted:Please continue. (before linking this I didn't know that the team claims to have about a year's worth of content updates in the pipeline, I appreciate how much work they're putting into their batshit crazy useless crypto thingy, they really deserve the money they are getting idiots to part with) Xerzes posted:So a libertarian is trying to describe a UBI but is too broken to figure it out properly? (it was Milton Friedman's preferred social policy so what a fuckin surprise that libertarians would like it) DACK FAYDEN fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Dec 13, 2017 |
# ? Dec 13, 2017 06:30 |
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"I like to imagine that I literally do not live in a society and instead live in a magical fantasy land where I am the only human, from this I have deduced the following very important truths about reality:"
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 13:24 |
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quote:I tend to think of rights and responsibilities in terms of if we were living on a desert island; I suppose this is similar to what Locke or Hobbes would have called a "state of nature". It's telling how common it is for libertarians to derive their theories of how a society ought to work from a rare situation in which people are cut off from any society. I guess at least this example presumes other people around. I've heard them start from "Well, if you were alone in a jungle..."
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 15:08 |
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GunnerJ posted:It's telling how common it is for libertarians to derive their theories of how a society ought to work from a rare situation in which people are cut off from any society. I guess at least this example presumes other people around. I've heard them start from "Well, if you were alone in a jungle..." "...You'd die?"
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 15:23 |
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Goon Danton posted:"...You'd die?" *smirks douchishly while sliding you a copy of Tarzan*
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# ? Dec 13, 2017 16:31 |
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Literally just mouse over this and read the URL, you don't even have to click, but if you do you'll enjoy the read. Those dragons I adopted are bound to soar in value now! http://www.angelfire.com/mi/silverphoenix1/dragon.html E: oh yeah and https://youtu.be/Q9RjDRLBWio Stinky_Pete fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Dec 13, 2017 |
# ? Dec 13, 2017 19:48 |
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Keeshhound posted:That was my original read, too. But I think they might actually mean "the government pays you for making money." As in, "you are taxed -10% of your earned income." With a real UBI you could think of it as everyone getting a $30000 tax rebate and people who make more than that would put that toward their tax bill.
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# ? Dec 14, 2017 04:33 |
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I highly recommend this twitter thread, even if you usually hate them. https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/941053887678681089 If you're hesitating: he's trying to get the safe-space diapermen to buy diapers for charity
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# ? Dec 14, 2017 05:47 |
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Mr Interweb posted:One of the most obvious problems with the "if we stop helping poor people, they'll finally stop being lazy and get jobs" is...not having many job openings to begin with? There's not an infinite number of jobs waiting around. Especially if you're in a hard hit city or going through a recession. This is becoming a problem in the UK where there is a simultaneously a problem with underemployment and lack of labour, because the social safety net is so lovely nowadays that people are clinging onto whatever meagre job they already have (even if its unpleasant/lacks hours/doesn't pay well) because they don't want to take the risk to look for a new job, which is now hitting certain business sectors who cannot find enough workers. This is one of the reasons UBI actually causes employment to go up, because people can afford to take the time to look for a job they actually want to do.
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# ? Dec 14, 2017 14:37 |
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Today I learned that the rational ubermenschen of the libertarian movement believe that putting on a nappy enhances your communication skills.
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# ? Dec 14, 2017 18:46 |
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Doc Hawkins posted:I highly recommend this twitter thread, even if you usually hate them.
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# ? Dec 15, 2017 22:30 |
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https://twitter.com/MagicRealismBot/status/941508090633113600
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# ? Dec 16, 2017 02:45 |
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# ? Dec 16, 2017 02:48 |
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Is this a koan?
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# ? Dec 16, 2017 02:55 |
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So you're poor? Get a mining rig 7 years ago, idiot,
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# ? Dec 16, 2017 20:55 |
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Or get a copper mine a hundred years ago
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# ? Dec 16, 2017 20:56 |
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Or bought beanie babies 20 years ago
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# ? Dec 16, 2017 21:11 |
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Okay, giving this even an iota of legitimacy, how is such a thing even supposed to work?
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# ? Dec 17, 2017 00:58 |
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Mr Interweb posted:Okay, giving this even an iota of legitimacy, how is such a thing even supposed to work? UP UP UP
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# ? Dec 17, 2017 01:47 |
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while you bleated about SOCIAL WORK I studied THE BLOCKCHAIN
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# ? Dec 17, 2017 01:54 |
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Mr Interweb posted:Okay, giving this even an iota of legitimacy, how is such a thing even supposed to work? I mean it's literally 'if socialists want to help the poor, why aren't they libertarians.'
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# ? Dec 17, 2017 01:55 |
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OwlFancier posted:You're also not, as far as I know, going "I'm sure people have a right to exist but I wouldn't feel comfortable suggesting anyone in particular has to pay for it." like the oiks in the quoted exchange. To be fair the person he quoted didnt seem to be advocating that, considering he seemed to be saying people should get a living wage without relying on their employer? That we should remove not just the expectation but the dependency. Doesnt come across as very libertarian so I am guessing he isnt? And is rather the voice of reason in that conversation GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Dec 17, 2017 |
# ? Dec 17, 2017 18:02 |
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GlyphGryph posted:Doesnt come across as very libertarian so I am guessing he isnt? maybe he just read a philosophy book but didn't look around at "real" libertarians like lil' me
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# ? Dec 17, 2017 19:09 |
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DACK FAYDEN posted:When I was 15 I thought the word for my politics was "libertarian" because I was in favor of gay marriage (let people do what they want), free college (let people study what they want), and a UBI (let people do what they want without having to earn a living) Those things do sound liberty-increasing to the uninitiated, but, well actually, there's no free lunch and they need to be paid for and Taxation Is Theft™/Slavery™ and Slavery™ is the opposite of Liberty™, so it turns out you were indirectly in favor of Slavery™ all along! QED. Hey just put the guns down so we can all agree to respect the Non-Aggression™ Principle, btw I interpret disagreements with my deeply-held beliefs as Aggression™, and furthermore, Statists, p.s. actually
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# ? Dec 17, 2017 23:36 |
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So I found out today that a friend of mine has transformed from Democrat to Libertarian. I know it's not unheard of, but up until now, I'd only witnessed the reverse. The signs were pointing in that direction for a while. He "liked" Milo, Ben Shapiro, Dennis Prager on FB, had arguments with me about the Google memo guy, and now he posted some crap article from some shitheel right-wing "economist" that uses the words "statist" unironically.
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# ? Dec 17, 2017 23:37 |
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See if you can shift him back left by hooking him up with some libertarian socialists types to follow, especially ones that focus on the tyranny of bosses and megacorps? Before he gets even deeper
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# ? Dec 18, 2017 00:03 |
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David Graeber is
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# ? Dec 18, 2017 04:55 |
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Goon Danton posted:David Graeber is Actually, a lot of people respond better to Roman imagery, such videos might be better
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# ? Dec 18, 2017 05:48 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 21:41 |
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The strap that binds the sticks together is, uh... taxes. Yeah.
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# ? Dec 18, 2017 06:34 |