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CelticPredator posted:But isn't that the point of why they're losing their poo poo? I'm not saying everyone is on the same level here, but that seems like someone looking up to a reviewer to share their opinion, and not doing so. And it hurts them, because they are so close to the material, and it is their identity. What are you even saying here?
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Dec 13, 2017 03:20
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Nasgate posted:Re: Youtuber chat It's perfectly fine and reasonable to expect people to get things wrong or misremember things from a film. It's not so much when they double down on those mistakes when you point them out. You can agree and disagree about what a film says or why you think a film failed or succeeded in something with other people all the time, as long as it's good-faith debates - it's encouraged. But the person who started thing whole discussion and people elsewhere are doubling down on errors and then gate keeping on what kind of meaning and interpretations you can have with the film, then hiding behind technicality to try to make their points unassailable. It's the worst kind of discussion. Guy A. Person posted:Do people like, try to post here and get chased off by the meanies disagreeing with them? Or lurk here and get pissed at the opinions they see? It's not a bad topic for discussing youtube videos and some creators post there, but they think CD are full of people who have their head up their rear end when discussing films and their meaning - especially if it's about a film that they know for a fact to be the lovely films.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:22
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CelticPredator posted:You guys may find it "boring". But others don't! We're talking about content that results in stuff like "Snyder's editing objectively failed to communicate that Superman was yelling at some corpses;" in other words, aggressively stupid opinions and interpretations that hide behind a mask of objectivity. We're not bored by that, we're amused, baffled and annoyed.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:25
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cant believe the cool kids in the forum where $18 month patreon youtubers occasionally show up to say "thanks for likin my 30 minute God of War: Reckoning trailer analysis" are makin fun of us...my whole face is red
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Dec 13, 2017 03:28
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"It's explained in the sequel" has to be, top of the list, my favourite defence of these garbage films, especially since there's so much trash and litter left over in Batman V Superman that "is setup for the sequels" that will never be. Barry's whole time travel back to warn Bruce about Lois being the perfectly sculpted example. For two years now I've had the worst nerds on the planet insisting that this monumentally stupid moment is *super important* because it's going to pay off in the future. "The things that were dumb and stupid and poorly dealt with in Man of Steel are Actually Good™ because of the next movie" is just so precious as a defence. It's really, really beautiful. So now that the movie that makes BvS good doesn't exist and never will, is BvS allowed to just be the chaotic half-baked mess of poor plotting and self-contradictory messaging that it is, or do we need to dig into the well of "actually it's bad on purpose to make a point about superhero movies"? Also, yeah, if you put predicate scenes out of order it undercuts conflict and tension. It's not about "should" as much as it's about WHAT THE MOVIE IS SCREAMING AT THE AUDIENCE. Man of Steel literally stops for moralizing sermons on multiple occasions, it's not some dark calculus to figure out what the movie thinks it's about, which is what makes it easy to step back and go "okay, well, it did a bad job of being about the things that it literally spent minutes telling us it was about." Ditto for BvS. The whole "unintended consequences" isn't a theme of the movie beyond a single scene where the movie says "sometimes there's unintended consequences", nodes sagely, and then imagines that its job is done. I mean, that's the root problem, the structural dry rot in these movies, that you can mention an idea once and that's good enough, even if other threads in your movie, if the editing, music, screen direction, composition, blocking, acting, plot, and structure all contradict it, it's good enough. I've come to the conclusion that Snyder probably doesn't think about scenes as scenes at all. He plants the camera and in that moment the scene is about whatever strikes him as interesting at that exact second, so you get compositions that, like Zod's death, look interesting in isolation but tell a contradictory story when strung together into a sequence. You get moments like Superman clearly reacting to the death of this family, but then the eyelines get all messed up and the entire message of the scene, down to "hey, so, what actually happened?" turns to mud. There's so many continuity errors left over from rewrites and reshoots and plain old bad editing that it's an achievement whenever any part of these movies manages to work. Anyway, Blade Runner 2049 and Mad Max: Fury Road are the movies that Snyder tried to make, and they're both infinitely better because Snyder isn't actually any good at his job.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:33
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seravid posted:I thought the whole funeral was already a pretty awkward joke in itself. Break out the fireworks for the guy who knowingly helped make this happen! I forgot, did he stop delivering kids because he found the pile of skulls, or what? I thought the song for the funeral was bad and the scene dragged a bit too much
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Dec 13, 2017 03:40
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The Cameo posted:Channel Criswell does pretty well. I really like Channel Criswell and he was hanging on for a thread there for a bit with Youtube's bullshit content auto-claims.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:40
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CelticPredator posted:People want to connect with other people. That may be what you feel, but your actions (i.e. writings) demonstrate that you are interested in being left alone. You are spending an enormous amount of time insisting that it is impossible for you to be understood. The paradox is that you are attempting to be ‘alone in public’ - pushing for sort of mutual isolation, where people who ‘connect with The Avengers (or whatever franchise)’ are automatically grouped together without interacting. Like, when you press the upvote button on a youtube video, and it displays the number of anonymous people who also upvoted. That’s the ideal. But again, that raises the question of why you are desperately pleading for users of a forum to effectively stop using words, instead of just voting 1 and moving on.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:48
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got any sevens posted:I forgot, did he stop delivering kids because he found the pile of skulls, or what? QUILL: Guess I should be glad I was a skinny kid, otherwise you would've delivered me to this maniac. YONDU: You still reckon that's the reason I kept you around, you idiot? QUILL: That's what you told me, you old doofus. YONDU: Well once I figured out what happened to those other kids, I wasn't just gonna hand you over.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:49
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I really like Channel Criswell and he was hanging on for a thread there for a bit with Youtube's bullshit content auto-claims. He also doesn't even get $500 out of Patreon. Which is sad because at times he's a bit more insightful than even Every Frame A Painting was, and clearly puts in as much time as the duo behind those did/do (since now the EFAP guys' stuff will just show up as FilmStruck and Criterion essays).
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Dec 13, 2017 03:57
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Yaws posted:"It's explained in the sequel" has to be, top of the list, my favourite defence of these garbage films, especially since there's so much trash and litter left over in Batman V Superman that "is setup for the sequels" that will never be. Barry's whole time travel back to warn Bruce about Lois being the perfectly sculpted example. For two years now I've had the worst nerds on the planet insisting that this monumentally stupid moment is *super important* because it's going to pay off in the future. *shakes guy lying face down on pavement in front of a bar awake* Hey buddy...you OK?
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Dec 13, 2017 03:58
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dont even fink about it posted:Actually, he steers Zod's head into the civilians because he doesn't give a gently caress, and then does a triumphant yowl at how awesome that fight was. What's the opposite of #notmysuperman?
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Dec 13, 2017 04:03
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Milky Moor posted:What's the opposite of #notmysuperman? #mymansuperman
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Dec 13, 2017 04:07
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:*shakes guy lying face down on pavement in front of a bar awake* Hey buddy...you OK? I was quoting FoldableHuman. Who sucks at reading films.
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Dec 13, 2017 04:09
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Yaws posted:I was quoting FoldableHuman. Who sucks at reading films. *sees you come to, then continues walking the beat, whistling and twirling a baton on a lanyard*
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Dec 13, 2017 04:13
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dont even fink about it posted:#mymansuperman
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Dec 13, 2017 04:17
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Yaws posted:"It's explained in the sequel" has to be, top of the list, my favourite defence of these garbage films, especially since there's so much trash and litter left over in Batman V Superman that "is setup for the sequels" that will never be. Barry's whole time travel back to warn Bruce about Lois being the perfectly sculpted example. For two years now I've had the worst nerds on the planet insisting that this monumentally stupid moment is *super important* because it's going to pay off in the future. I'm probably telling you something you already know, but, this is like modern franchise films 101. Everything is just a teaser to get you to come to the next one. Throw in nonsense things and tell people that it will make sense, trust us. Throw in post-credit stingers that people get just as hyped as, if not more than, the movie they came to see. Deliberately obfuscate things in trailers and even, perhaps, production and cast interviews so people can't possibly figure out what the film will be like before release. Get people to consume all the tie-in material by insisting it helps bring the 'world' of the films alive. And the best bit is, if you just drop the threads or resolve them in seconds with no fanfare, literally no one will care -- because you've probably distracted them with the next set of shiny plot threads.
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Dec 13, 2017 04:37
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Man of Steel and Batman v Superman work well as their own films. They just happen to connect together that works perfectly and isn't typical of the one-and-done Marvel thing where character arcs are erased between films. The only major offender in this is the Justice League clip show and Flash showing up after the knightmare in Batman v Superman. I would have cut both those things out if I could.
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Dec 13, 2017 04:43
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Yaws posted:I was quoting FoldableHuman. Who sucks at reading films. I figured there was a gag there, last I checked you came around on Man of Steel
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Dec 13, 2017 04:45
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Burkion posted:I figured there was a gag there, last I checked you came around on Man of Steel His avatar is from MOS so yeah.
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Dec 13, 2017 04:47
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Burkion posted:I figured there was a gag there, last I checked you came around on Man of Steel Man of Steel owns.
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Dec 13, 2017 04:50
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It does indeed. I really do hope that history remembers it better once all of this is said and done. BvS has some bone deep problems born from the studio but MoS is just such a good movie.
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Dec 13, 2017 04:51
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Burkion posted:It does indeed. Of course it will. Man of Steel is a bold and audacious movie. No one debates about the Marvel movies because when push comes to shove no one actually cares about them. Man of Steel, at the very least, triumphs over it's contemporaries Sorry if this offends internet critic FoldableHuman.
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Dec 13, 2017 05:05
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Timby posted:A friend of mine wrote this about the issues with Guardians 2. It's an interesting read. A few things - Just because something has an upbeat song doesn't mean that the narrative is a positive 'cheer them on' moment, nor do funny or absurdist moments mean that what is happening is good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeVhxSSPsac https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwicLgOGJOI Also Groot is also not an adorable pacifist in GOTG1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5nZvcoNVzk The GOTG are all murderers, assassins, thieves and ravangers. They're a very grey kind of 'hero' - while making for an enjoyable movie, they're not exactly a group you really should be cheering on, except on the odd occasion when they save the universe.
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Dec 13, 2017 05:27
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Goffer posted:The GOTG are all murderers, assassins, thieves and ravangers. They're a very grey kind of 'hero' - while making for an enjoyable movie, they're not exactly a group you really should be cheering on, except on the odd occasion when they save the universe. I think this isn't limited to GotG. From what I recall, Spiderman and Hulk(not banner) are really the only characters in the MCU that aren't either active or knowingly complicit in the deaths of innocents or extrajudicial killing. And they're both teenagers mentally.
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Dec 13, 2017 05:42
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Nasgate posted:I think this isn't limited to GotG. From what I recall, Spiderman and Hulk(not banner) are really the only characters in the MCU that aren't either active or knowingly complicit in the deaths of innocents or extrajudicial killing. And they're both teenagers mentally. MCU Spider-Man doesn't even have the "unintentional but still complicit connection to Uncle Ben's death" shtick he almost always obsesses over Edit: or Gwen Stacy Edit: or his best friend's evil Goblin father
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Dec 13, 2017 05:57
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Goffer posted:Also Groot is also not an adorable pacifist in GOTG1 They also ask why Groot is different from the way he was in Guardians of the Galaxy when the answer to that is pretty self-evident; it’s two separate characters.
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Dec 13, 2017 05:57
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:MCU Spider-Man doesn't even have the "unintentional but still complicit connection to Uncle Ben's death" shtick he almost always obsesses over MCU probably does have the Uncle Ben part of his origin, they just didn't want to make us watch him die again. Phylodox posted:They also ask why Groot is different from the way he was in Guardians of the Galaxy when the answer to that is pretty self-evident; it’s two separate characters. I'm shocked everyone doesn't pick up on this.
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Dec 13, 2017 06:01
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Nasgate posted:I think this isn't limited to GotG. From what I recall, Spiderman and Hulk(not banner) are really the only characters in the MCU that aren't either active or knowingly complicit in the deaths of innocents or extrajudicial killing. And they're both teenagers mentally. I think Thor is safe because he is a God and a warrior of Asgard, and thus his killings are all justified and sanctioned. Although extrajudicial killings are ok in some instances, right 
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Dec 13, 2017 06:30
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Yaws posted:"It's explained in the sequel" has to be, top of the list, my favourite defence of these garbage films, especially since there's so much trash and litter left over in Batman V Superman that "is setup for the sequels" that will never be. Barry's whole time travel back to warn Bruce about Lois being the perfectly sculpted example. For two years now I've had the worst nerds on the planet insisting that this monumentally stupid moment is *super important* because it's going to pay off in the future. Do you have an example of people defending certain scenes based on the yet-to-be-released sequel? I read a lot of defenses of that movie here and I don't recall that being a main one, or really recall that at all.
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Dec 13, 2017 06:48
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Goffer posted:I think Thor is safe because he is a God and a warrior of Asgard, and thus his killings are all justified and sanctioned. Although extrajudicial killings are ok in some instances, right The extrajudicial remark is more targeted towards the more human, or completely human heroes like Widow and the twins. Thor is a weird case because he talks about caring about humans in most movies but just dips out without any attempt or intention of reparations or acknowledgement of those caught in the crossfire if he doesn't personally know them. Which is why I like the Ragnarok version the best, he acts and talks like a God that doesn't really care about small details like the deaths of thousands of mortals if he's saving billions.
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Dec 13, 2017 06:51
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Lord Krangdar posted:Do you have an example of people defending certain scenes based on the yet-to-be-released sequel? I read a lot of defenses of that movie here and I don't recall that being a main one, or really recall that at all. He's just quoting Foldable, guys, please read the thread.
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Dec 13, 2017 06:57
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This is the best GIF on the internet. In unrelated comic book movie thoughts, I was writing about MoS in the RGD thread and something occurred to me. MoS has a non-linear narrative, jumping from adult Clark, to young Clark and back and forth. The movies timeline spans at least 30 years. Then, Superman Turns himself into the military Gets handed to the Kryptonians Tortured and rescued by Lois/Jor-El Saves Martha Fights those two bad guys in Smallville Flies to the Indian Ocean to fight the thing Metropolis gets hosed up Superman flies to Metropolis Fights Zod Kills Zod All those events? Happen on the same day! Within a 24 hour period! I just found it strange that a movie that spans decades then has so many events happen in a day, not a complaint, just an observation, until I remembered... Batman Begins. Batman Begins has a non-linear narrative, jumping from adult Bruce, to young Bruce and back and forth. The movies timeline spans 20-25 years. Then Batman Wakes up at Wayne Manor after getting fear gassed, cured by Morgan Freeman Follows Katie Holmes to Arkham Fights Scarecrow and friends Summons the bats and escapes the police Cures Rachel, gives her the serum and attends his birthday party Gets jumped at the party by Liam Neeson and knocked out Alfred, after returning Rachel to her apartment, returns and saves him Liam Neeson enacts his plan to gas Gotham, by letting dudes out of Arkham and doing the thing with the train Batman, who is stabbed, suits up, returns to Gotham and meets up with Gordon Batman defeats Liam Neeson with Gordon's help and saves the day All those events? Happen on the same day and night! Both films then jump forward an indeterminate amount of time for the wrap up (Clark working at the Daily Planet, Batman getting the Joker card etc) The only thing the films really have in common is David Goyer wrote them and Nolan produced both(and directed Begins). No real revelations, just never saw before that both had the same "Events of our heroes development over the years of their growth, then EVERYTHING happens in a single day" structure. Are there any other (not even comic book) films like this? With the story occurring over a long period of time, then a whole bunch of poo poo happening at once? Is it just Nolan being Nolan? From memory, The Dark Knight is the only film of his that I can think of that is 100% linear and with no real fluctuations with the passage of time. Once again, not a complaint, just an observation.
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Dec 13, 2017 07:01
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Yeah. Everything from the moment Clark turns himself over to the government to the end of the movie happens over the course of a few hours. It's crazy intense, with only the flashbacks to give breathing room. Probably one of my favorite things is how goddamn relentless Zod is. When he picks up his crew and runs away from Smallville he doesn't like take a day to lick his wounds or some poo poo, he goes right back to work. Honestly I'd like to see a cut of Man of Steel with ONLY the scenes in the present for the last third of the movie. It would be NUTS.
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Dec 13, 2017 07:08
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Oceans 11/13 and similar heists, maybe a few war movies like Full Metal Jacket with long training then a big battle Indiana Jones 3 is that in reverse, he gets the whip, hat, and snake fear in one day. Also archaeology takes a long time for history to accumulate (haha)
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Dec 13, 2017 07:14
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:Yeah. Everything from the moment Clark turns himself over to the government to the end of the movie happens over the course of a few hours. It's crazy intense, with only the flashbacks to give breathing room. The music buildup doesn't stop, and gets steadily more intense, for the last ~45 minutes of the movie while this final day builds to it's inevitable showdown. MoS is loving awesome. Also there's still no better superhero fight in cinema than Superman v Zod. That fight tells a whole loving story by itself.
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Dec 13, 2017 07:48
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Nasgate posted:The extrajudicial remark is more targeted towards the more human, or completely human heroes like Widow and the twins. True - Widow and Hawkeye have definitely been murdering for the CIA for a long time. I Think Ant-man and Dr Strange are morally ok as well in terms of civilian deaths. Then again, to be a hero, does it really matter about their past, or what they do next week? According to some guy on the internet: "In ancient Greece, a hero was not necessarily virtuous morally, flawless in ethics, well-mannered or unable to do anything wrong. A hero was just as flawed (if not more) than common people and would often have one fatal weakness that he would have to surpass to achieve υστεροφημία (literally translates to “post-mortem fame”) which is a sense of glory." What some people want out of a hero will never exist (unless it's literally superman or jesus) - if you look into someone's past thoroughly enough, they'll always have done something dodgy, which if you want to use it, will discredit their 'hero' status. Classical heroes like Achilles, Thor, Lancelot, Hercules, routinely did bad poo poo in their lives, took shortcuts, drank, lied and cheated. They also definitely all murdered people. Maybe Marvel is all about using the Roman/Greek Mythology era definition of heroes, where as DC is striving for a Jeudo-Chrisitan hero status.
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Dec 13, 2017 08:33
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The fundamental difference is that the Snyder movies take the idea of a super-hero seriously. So like, there's this guy who can upend the whole world. How about that? Then the Marvel movies are essentially about these toothless characters who suffer. They have these Dallas-esque Soap Opera spats which have the age old Soap Opera contrivance of having the world wait on the characters----as if anyone should care what Discus Man thinks about a bill designed to restrain Iron Man and The Hulk.
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Dec 13, 2017 08:43
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:The fundamental difference is that the Snyder movies take the idea of a super-hero seriously. So like, there's this guy who can upend the whole world. How about that? Then the Marvel movies are essentially about these toothless characters who suffer. They have these Dallas-esque Soap Opera spats which have the age old Soap Opera contrivance of having the world wait on the characters----as if anyone should care what Discus Man thinks about a bill designed to restrain Iron Man and The Hulk. My fave example of this is in Avengers, when everyone is given a DHS folder that says “surprise! Aliens exist and here’s a bunch of footage of Thor, the Marvel version of Superman who is literally a god. BTW it turns out that Old Norse was the correct religion all along.” And then it just cuts to five minutes later and nobody gave a poo poo.
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Dec 13, 2017 10:04
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| # ? May 19, 2024 23:36 |
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Post-World War II history is a lie concocted by Nazi illuminati. This is never brought up again.
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Dec 13, 2017 10:24
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