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Shangri-Law School
Feb 19, 2013

DariusLikewise posted:

The Lions rushing ineptitude at this point seems like more of a scheme or offensive line issue than a skill player issue.

The tell is that Riley Reiff and Larry Warford left for other teams and immediately started playing better.

But yeah, no top-half running game since Barry retired. The Curse is real.

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Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010

Against All Tyrants

Ultra Carp

Shangri-Law School posted:

The tell is that Riley Reiff and Larry Warford left for other teams and immediately started playing better.

But yeah, no top-half running game since Barry retired. The Curse is real.

Ron Prince should be #1 on the chopping block this offseason without question (assuming they don't just clean house)

YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."

FizFashizzle posted:

Everyone says if Jake Locker had come out the year before he would have been a top three pick or so, but I really wonder how he would have holed up at the combine.

Like the first time a coach asked him what defense he was looking at....

“Looks like it’s the other team’s, but hard to say for sure.”

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN
Josh Allen is going to get multiple people fired in the NFL

Ragnarok the Red
Jun 21, 2002

Benne posted:

Josh Allen is going to get multiple people fired in the NFL

McShay’s first mock has the Broncos taking him at 5 so... :v:

Ragnarok the Red fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Dec 13, 2017

a neat cape
Feb 22, 2007

Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!

Ragnarok the Red posted:

McShay’s first mock has the Broncos taking him at 5 :v:

Oh god please

Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010

Bad, very bad!

a neat cape posted:

Oh god please

I think someone looked up McShay's record at predicting quarterbacks and it was pretty....questionable.

Not that anyone is actually good at it of course. But the only specific thing I remember is he had Gabbert over Newton in that draft which is a not good specific prediction to remember.

wandler20
Nov 13, 2002

How many Championships?
Here's McShay's mock:

quote:

1. Cleveland Browns
Sam Darnold, QB, USC*

The Browns have a really good chance to have two picks in the top 10 of this draft. With the No. 1 pick, they must address their QB situation. I believe Rosen is the more polished quarterback right now, but Darnold has the higher ceiling at the next level. We've spent a lot of time focusing on Darnold's questionable decision-making and poor footwork (as well as his being turnover prone), but that was behind a porous offensive line and with a pass-catching corps with a lot of youth. Darnold played very well down the stretch, with nine TDs and only two INTs in his final five games. It isn't easy to turn down guaranteed money and the potential of being the No. 1 pick, but most talent evaluators think he'd benefit long-term from another year at USC. Darnold will have to make a difficult decision after the Cotton Bowl.


2. New York Giants

Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA*

This is another team with a lot of holes, but none is more glaring than at QB. Eli Manning will be 37 at the start of the next season, and the Giants' offense hasn't scored 30 points in a game since the 2015 season (30 straight games). Davis Webb hasn't been able to get on the field, and Geno Smith isn't the long-term answer at the position. Rosen outplayed Darnold in their recent matchup, and I came away impressed from watching him from the sideline. Rosen is the most NFL-ready QB in this class. The biggest challenge for him will be selling teams on his love/need for the game and his "coachability."


3. Indianapolis Colts
Bradley Chubb, DE, NC State

This team has needs all over, but it is one of the few in the top 10 that should be set at QB, with a (presumably) healthy Andrew Luck coming back next season. Without an offensive tackle worthy of such a high pick, I'm looking for edge help here. Chubb has a great skill set and a nonstop motor, and he has played his way into being a top-10 pick. He is a plug-and-play starter.


4. San Francisco 49ers
Minkah Fitzpatrick, S, Alabama*

Saquon Barkley could make sense here, but the 49ers have Matt Breida and could re-sign pending free agent Carlos Hyde. Just like his dad did throughout his career, Shanahan has always believed in his ability to identify RB talent that fits his system in later rounds; I'm guessing he and John Lynch will employ a similar strategy. The 49ers have invested heavily on the defensive line in recent drafts, but they need an infusion of talent in the secondary. Fitzpatrick is a true shutdown cornerback who has the versatility to play safety as well.


5. Denver Broncos
Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming*

Even after taking Paxton Lynch No. 26 overall in 2016, the Broncos are clearly still in need of a franchise QB. Lynch has thrown only 97 passes in two seasons, and he was beaten by Trevor Siemian for the starting QB spot this season. If Denver doesn't address the position in free agency, Allen should be the pick. There's no question that he struggled this season at Wyoming and needs to improve his decision-making, but he lost four of his skill position players from 2016 to the NFL. Allen has an elite arm and is a physical freak in terms of his skill set. His stock should rise in the postseason process.


6. Cleveland Browns (from Texans)
Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State*

The Browns have plenty of needs but can afford a luxury pick after taking their QB at No. 1. While Isaiah Crowell and Duke Johnson are a nice pairing, Barkley is a far superior player to both. My No. 2 overall prospect, Barkley is clearly the best running back in college football. He's also the best running back to come out of college since Adrian Peterson, and he would do well behind Cleveland's strong offensive line.


7. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Clelin Ferrell, DE, Clemson*

There is still some hope for an edge rush in Tampa Bay with Noah Spence (on injured reserve), but the Bucs are dead last in the NFL with 17.0 sacks this season, and the defense has been porous (31st in total points). Ferrell is a hard worker, and the light has come on recently. He has been steadily rising up my board after a terrific performance against Syracuse (3.5 sacks, 5.5 TFL) and is explosive off the edge. A third-year sophomore, he could also return to Clemson.


8. Chicago Bears
Calvin Ridley, WR, Alabama

Mitchell Trubisky has had an inconsistent rookie campaign, but the Bears have been plagued by injuries at the wide receiver position in recent years. Ridley is the clear top wideout in this class, with outstanding foot speed and good acceleration. He has averaged 16.2 yards per catch this season, but his stats in Alabama's run-heavy offense don't reflect his true talent.


9. New York Jets
Arden Key, DE, LSU*

The Jets are another QB-needy team, but in this mock, the top three QBs are all already off the board. This is a spot where Baker Mayfield could be considered (or Allen if he's still available). The pass rush needs help, though, and Key is the most talented natural edge rusher in the draft. He left LSU this summer for personal reasons and has been banged up this season (only 4.0 sacks), so his draft stock could slip a bit, but the talent is there.


10. Cincinnati Bengals
Connor Williams, OT, Texas*

The Bengals have had a disappointing season, and the offensive line is a big reason for that. Cedric Ogbuehi and Jake Fisher (out for the season with an irregular heartbeat) haven't played up to their draft potential, and Cincinnati is in the bottom third in sacks allowed (33) after giving up 41 last season. Guard Quenton Nelson could help here, but Williams is the best offensive lineman and is a better value proposition at No. 10.


11. Arizona Cardinals
Mike McGlinchey, OT, Notre Dame

This is another potential landing spot for Baker Mayfield, as Carson Palmer's status for the 2018 season is unknown. But if it's not QB (or CB), offensive line makes sense for a Cardinals team that has allowed the second-most sacks (44) in the NFL this season and needs upgrades at several spots. McGlinchey doesn't have elite tools, but he has good experience and is a well-rounded player. He is a high-floor pick.


12. Oakland Raiders
Denzel Ward, CB, Ohio State*

The Oakland passing defense has been a sieve this season, allowing 7.7 yards per attempt (27th), and 2017 first-round pick Gareon Conley is still an unknown after playing only two games this season. Ward lacks ideal starting experience but has been exceptional this season at Ohio State. He's the best pure man-to-man cover corner in this class.


13. Washington Redskins
Derwin James, S, Florida State*

This is one of the tougher picks to predict, as the direction will be dictated by what happens with Kirk Cousins. If he's back, the best player on the board is James, who is an extremely versatile safety and will likely test well at the combine. In a division with Alshon Jeffery, Odell Beckham Jr. and Dez Bryant at wide receiver, you can't have enough secondary help.


14. Miami Dolphins
Quenton Nelson, G, Notre Dame*

Guard is a glaring need for the Dolphins, who need to protect whomever is at QB and get more push in the running game. Nelson is the most NFL-ready offensive lineman in this class and a road-grader (listed at 6-foot-5, 235 pounds). He's ready to start right away.


15. Buffalo Bills
Roquan Smith, LB, Georgia*

Another team with potential QB issues, we'll know more about the Bills' commitment to Tyrod Taylor (and Nathan Peterman) after this season and free agency. Linebacker is another clear area of need, though, and Smith is the most athletic off-the-line linebacker in this class. A true sideline-to-sideline player, he can do it all and is a perfect fit for the modern NFL.


16. Dallas Cowboys
Christian Wilkins, DT, Clemson*

The Cowboys have generated good pressure up front, thanks to DeMarcus Lawrence's 13.5 sacks, but he'll be a free agent. Last year's first-round pick, Taco Charlton, should help as well, but the Cowboys need to bolster the interior of that defensive line. Wilkins has experience both inside and outside on an outstanding Clemson D-line, but I believe his best fit is inside as a 3-technique. He has the foot speed and quick hands to slip blocks and is a stout run-defender.


17. Green Bay Packers
Harold Landry, OLB, Boston College

Depending on what happens with pending free agent Davante Adams, wide receiver could be a need here. I'm going defense for Green Bay, though. Landry was my No. 4 prospect going into the season, but he might fall in the draft a bit due to an injury-riddled senior season. He is a naturally gifted edge rusher who led the nation in 2016 with 16.5 sacks.


18. Detroit Lions
Tremaine Edmunds, DE/OLB, Virginia Tech*

Detroit has plenty of needs on defense but must be encouraged by the play of 2017 first-round LB Jarrad Davis. Regardless of whether the Lions re-sign pending free agent Ezekiel Ansah, Detroit needs more edge rushers. Edmunds has the versatility to cover and rush the passer, and he is a gifted athlete at 6-foot-5, 250 pounds. He'll likely test well at the combine.


19. Los Angeles Chargers
Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma

Orlando Brown is an option at offensive tackle here, but this is a good time for the Chargers to take a successor to 36-year-old Philip Rivers. Los Angeles passed on Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson last draft, but Mayfield is too intriguing to pass on here. Perhaps no prospect has improved his stock more in 2017 than Mayfield, who was my ninth-ranked QB coming into the season, with a midround grade. The Heisman winner is an exceptional leader and could play himself into the first round with a good showing in the College Football Playoff.

20. Tennessee Titans
Josh Jackson, CB, Iowa*

The Titans have spent a lot of recent draft capital on the offensive side of the ball, so I'm looking defense here. They need an edge rusher, but there isn't one to match the spot, so I'll look to the secondary. Adoree' Jackson has looked the part, but Tennessee needs more help on the outside. Josh Jackson is a long CB with natural cover ability and tremendous ball skills. He flashed with three INTs against Ohio State.


21. Buffalo Bills (from Chiefs)
Vita Vea, DT, Washington*

After trading Marcell Dareus to Jacksonville midseason, Buffalo's run defense has suffered. Listed at 6-foot-4, 346 pounds, Vea is a former high school running back and an absolute block-eater in the middle of Washington's defense. However, he also has the quickness and athleticism to get into the backfield. He could continue to rise with an impressive combine performance.


22. Baltimore Ravens
Christian Kirk, WR, Texas A&M*

Former first-round pick Breshad Perriman hasn't been able to stay on the field, and this offense really lacks playmakers. Kirk has been inconsistent, but he has the speed to take the top off a defense. He is also a great punt returner.


23. Atlanta Falcons
Ronnie Harrison, S, Alabama

Help on the defensive line is an option with Dontari Poe and Courtney Upshaw both free agents and Derrick Nnadi and Mo Hurst still available. However, in today's NFL, you can't have enough playmakers in the secondary. Harrison is an underrated prospect and has star potential in the NFL at the free safety position. He has been all over the field for a very good Alabama defense.


24. Seattle Seahawks
Derrius Guice, RB, LSU*

Seattle has seemingly had a revolving door at RB and needs some stability at the position to take pressure off Russell Wilson. Guice definitely isn't Leonard Fournette, but he has great quickness and the ability to break tackles. He dealt with some nagging injuries but has been a workhorse for LSU down the stretch, averaging 22 carries and 132 yards per game in his past six. Offensive line is also an option here for the Seahawks.


25. Carolina Panthers
Orlando Brown, OT, Oklahoma*

Carolina is another team that is looking for an edge rusher, but it might struggle with value here. Brown is the son of the late Orlando "Zeus" Brown, and he played left tackle at Oklahoma, but I think he might be better suited at RT in the NFL. He has tremendous talent but will benefit from shedding some weight and improving his foot quickness. He would give Carolina some insurance for Matt Kalil.


26. Los Angeles Rams
Billy Price, G/C, Ohio State

A plug-and-play starter, Price will help an improved Rams offense line on the inside. A four-year starter, Price is playing center for the Buckeyes this season, but I see him at guard for Los Angeles. He should be a steady starter.


27. Jacksonville Jaguars
Courtland Sutton, WR, SMU*

The Jaguars need help at tight end and potentially quarterback, but there aren't any worthy of being drafted here, in my opinion. Sutton would offer another pass-catching weapon for Blake Bortles (or a new QB) to go with that ferocious defense.


28. New Orleans Saints
Mo Hurst, DT, Michigan

New Orleans could use more depth and versatility on an improving defensive line, and Hurst would be a good value at this point in the draft. The Saints could also go for Mayfield here if he's still available.


29. Minnesota Vikings
Martinas Rankin, OT, Mississippi State

The depth of this roster is showing this season, as Case Keenum has stepped in at QB, and the Vikings haven't missed a beat. There aren't many glaring holes on this team, but Minnesota could still use reinforcements on the offensive line. A former JUCO transfer, Rankin performed well against good SEC competition.


30. New England Patriots
Ben Banogu, DE/OLB, TCU

Bill Belichick loves to collect versatile edge defenders, and Banogu fits the bill. A former transfer from Louisiana Monroe, he didn't get much national attention this season but was always around the ball on the tapes I studied and was highly productive (15.5 TFL, 8.5 sacks).


31. Pittsburgh Steelers
Dallas Goedert, TE, South Dakota State*

This is a bit of a reach for the top tight end in this class -- I have a mid- to late-second-round grade on him -- but Goedert is an underrated talent who has dominated his small-school competition. He has the athletic ability to give linebackers issues, and his size (6-foot-4, 258 pounds) is trouble for CBs. The postseason process will be big for him to prove he belongs.


32. Philadelphia Eagles
Rashaan Evans, LB, Alabama

The Eagles have one of the most complete rosters in the NFL, though offensive tackle could be an issue if 35-year-old Jason Peters isn't the same coming back from his knee injury. Another versatile linebacker such as Evans, who has had a strong senior campaign, is a good pick to help bolster an elite defense.

sirtommygunn
Mar 7, 2013



So the Jets have a desperate need for a QB, there's a good one still on the board, and they pass on him for the sixth or so try at a good DE? That's stupid, that's loving dumb as hell, and that's exactly what the Jets will do God dammit.

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012
Does Lamar Jackson not exist in the mcshay universe?

Boosh!
Apr 12, 2002
Oven Wrangler

Metapod posted:

Does Lamar Jackson not exist in the mcshay universe?

I'm seeing him in a lot of day 2 mocks. Also, seeing a lot of your typical, coded scouts' takes on his ability to play the position.

Epi Lepi
Oct 29, 2009

You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants
Yeah what's the deal there with no Lamar Jackson?

Is he not actually good? Is McShay dumb? I don't watch college football but I've been hearing people talk about Lamar Jackson for two years and thought he was well thought of.

YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."

Jackson is one of those guys I’d love to see my team take a chance on because, while I don’t know for sure that he can transition to the NFL, he will be spectacular if he can. He’s just got so much physical ability.

Cash Monet
Apr 5, 2009

There's a decent chance Darnold and Rosen stay in school to avoid the Browns.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

wandler20 posted:

Here's McShay's mock:
lmao he has the Jaguars taking a WR



Epi Lepi posted:

Yeah what's the deal there with no Lamar Jackson?

Is he not actually good? Is McShay dumb? I don't watch college football but I've been hearing people talk about Lamar Jackson for two years and thought he was well thought of.
McShay is hella dumb. That is all there is to it.

Diva Cupcake
Aug 15, 2005

Bill Polian thinks Lamar Jackson should convert to WR so I'm perfectly content taking him as a QB in the top 10.

a neat cape
Feb 22, 2007

Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!

Cash Monet posted:

There's a decent chance Darnold and Rosen stay in school to avoid the Browns.

Darnold maybe. Rosen hates school and wants out

hifi
Jul 25, 2012

cardinals need to draft a drat o line coach and a s&c one in the second round. we've had so many failed picks over the years and now everyone's hurt

Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010

Bad, very bad!

Epi Lepi posted:

Yeah what's the deal there with no Lamar Jackson?

This is just my take and not what McShay or any actual scouts think. In my mind the biggest knock on him is he's a Petrino quarterback, and that hasn't translated well in the past. His completion percentage is probably also lower than you'd like but he's hyper aggressive so that goes into that a little bit.

You also worry some about him running at the next level, he's amazing at it but he's built like a beanpole. And since he's so damned good at it he's going to have that tendency to take off too often like Vick did early on, which you can easily imagine ends up with with him getting hurt.

But goddamn, if you imagine a world he hits and everything works out he would be utterly ridiculous.

e: I'd draft him 100 times out of 100 over Josh Allen whatever the case.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land




Lamar Jackson needs to bulk up

Joey Freshwater
Jun 20, 2004

Always playing with my meat
Grimey Drawer

wandler20 posted:

Here's McShay's mock:

Please not another DE from Clemson for Tampa. Two of them were complete busts and the other one died (after he was traded)

Joey Freshwater fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Dec 13, 2017

JIZZ DENOUEMENT
Oct 3, 2012

STRIKE!

warcrimes posted:

Lol goons thought Goff sucked

I thought he was good enough to warrant a top pick in the draft, and I thought 1 year under Jim Fisher wasn't enough to close the book on him.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
Calvin Ridley seems really small to be the #1 WR in the draft. He's fast as hell but not to a game breaking degree.

Godzilla07
Oct 4, 2008

Epi Lepi posted:

Is McShay dumb?





Jevan Snead went undrafted.

JIZZ DENOUEMENT
Oct 3, 2012

STRIKE!

Godzilla07 posted:



Jevan Snead went undrafted.

I mean, yeah I think McShay is dumb, but that QB ranking might be technically correct. 2010 was a poo poo show for QB's. It's not like there was some stud who turned out to be better than Bradford. And everybody after him has been various piles of poop.

a neat cape
Feb 22, 2007

Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!
Baker Mayfield to the Chargers huh

sponges
Sep 15, 2011

I don’t watch much college ball but why isn’t Mayfield projected higher? His height?

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART

sponges posted:

I don’t watch much college ball but why isn’t Mayfield projected higher? His height?

I think it's mostly personality/maturity. He's Manziel-esque in that manner.

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


Acebuckeye13 posted:

Ron Prince should be #1 on the chopping block this offseason without question (assuming they don't just clean house)

WAIT, THAT RON PRINCE?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A-05wPlQQ4

Ches Neckbeard
Dec 3, 2005

You're all garbage, back up the truck BACK IT UP!

sponges posted:

I don’t watch much college ball but why isn’t Mayfield projected higher? His height?

You remember how Dede Westbrook and Joe Mixon have histories of being shitheads? Well they rubbed off on Baker a bit. He hasn't gone lady beating yet but has an arrest record.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/06/19/oklahoma-qb-baker-mayfield-pleads-guilty-to-three-charges-from-feb-25-arrest/
https://twitter.com/SInow/status/932022600934535169

Being fair he was getting cheap shotted to poo poo that game.

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012

sponges posted:

I don’t watch much college ball but why isn’t Mayfield projected higher? His height?

he's small lol the people acting like getting drunk and running from the cops is anything like manziel or mixon

The Puppy Bowl
Jan 31, 2013

A dog, in the house.

*woof*
If the Ravens draft Christian Kirk I refuse to be held accountable for any of my actions that follow.. Another fast WR with iffy hands is a bridge too far.

YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."

Metapod posted:

he's small lol the people acting like getting drunk and running from the cops is anything like manziel or mixon

It’s quite a lot like Manziel in college. The assault accusations came much later, in college the knock was just that he was drunk and irresponsible.

KIM JONG TRILL
Nov 29, 2006

GIN AND JUCHE

YOLOsubmarine posted:

It’s quite a lot like Manziel in college. The assault accusations came much later, in college the knock was just that he was drunk and irresponsible.

Manziel had a massive reputation as a party animal with constant reports of him doing stupid poo poo off the field. Baker has had one such incident.

YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."

KIM JONG TRILL posted:

Manziel had a massive reputation as a party animal with constant reports of him doing stupid poo poo off the field. Baker has had one such incident.

My point was that getting drunk and running from the cops was very much in line with what Manziel might have done (though it’s worse than anything he actually did). Neither dude was comparable to Mixon coming out of college.

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN
I don't think the situations are comparable. Mayfield may be a dumb party animal, but by all accounts he takes the game seriously and works hard to improve himself on the field. There are reasons to believe he'll mellow with age and maturity.

Meanwhile, Manziel had all the off-field drama and also clearly didn't care about football, never making an effort to fix his bad habits and burning a thousand bridges on his way out of the NFL.

Elephanthead
Sep 11, 2008


Toilet Rascal

JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:

I mean, yeah I think McShay is dumb, but that QB ranking might be technically correct. 2010 was a poo poo show for QB's. It's not like there was some stud who turned out to be better than Bradford. And everybody after him has been various piles of poop.

Is Tebow the only playoff starting and winning QB on that list?

LOL Joe Webb is the only QB drafted in 2010 that has a win last week.

Elephanthead fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Dec 15, 2017

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I think Bradford might have been a decentish starter somewhere if his knees weren't made of glass.

pasaluki
Feb 27, 2008

THIS WHAGON HAS NO BREAKS! I HAVE THE HEART OF THE BUUFALO the strength OF THE MOUNTAIN, THE FURY OF THE THUNDER AND MY WILL IS UNBREAKABLE! I will not surrender to KNOW ONE

Benne posted:

Meanwhile, Manziel had all the off-field drama and also clearly didn't care about football, never making an effort to fix his bad habits and burning a thousand bridges on his way out of the NFL.

Manziel if he's smart will go to the CFL. He'd be awesome and the canucks wouldn't even care if went partying. The women probably don't look too bad up there either

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DariusLikewise
Oct 4, 2008

You wore that on Halloween?

pasaluki posted:

Manziel if he's smart will go to the CFL. He'd be awesome and the canucks wouldn't even care if went partying. The women probably don't look too bad up there either

He's been trying to come up here since earlier in the year. The Commissioner of the CFL has said he won't allow Manziel in the league if he keeps being an rear end in a top hat.

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