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Ganson posted:When the alternative is the current situation or one remarkably similar to it? If Obama hadn't continued Bush's unpopular murderous wars, and hadn't showered cash on blowjobs on the criminals who destroyed the economy even as they were stealing homes from the people their recession made unemployed, we wouldn't be in the current situation!
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Dec 14, 2017 08:21
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VitalSigns posted:If Obama hadn't continued Bush's unpopular murderous wars, and hadn't showered cash on blowjobs on the criminals who destroyed the economy even as they were stealing homes from the people their recession made unemployed, we wouldn't be in the current situation! Immediately pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq and the situation now would be 10 times worse. Neither party was going to stop the flow of business guy stripper titty coke money.
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Dec 14, 2017 08:49
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Ganson posted:When the alternative is the current situation or one remarkably similar to it? You are aware that the argument you're making is similar to someone prior to the abolition of slavery* going "well, slavery wasn't expanded (or otherwise made worse) during X's presidency, what more can you people possibly want?!" Basically the point of the analogy is that, to anyone with any sense of the grotesque injustice and inequality of our current society, maintaining the status quo is itself extremely immoral. I used slavery in the example just because it's something that anyone would presumably agree is obviously evil to the extent that it's absurd to praise anyone allowing its continued existence. I feel like being raised in our society (especially if you're raised in privilege) sort of makes people numb to just how completely and absurdly unjust things are, and their reactions can be bizarre as a result. So while it's still reasonable to vote for the "don't expand slavery to new states or otherwise make it worse somehow" guy in this analogy (if the alternative is someone who wants to expand slavery), it's also loving ridiculous to give them any words of praise. For some reason I've noticed this tendency to conflate not actively praising Democratic politicians with an unwillingness to vote for them to prevent Republican candidates from winning. It is entirely possible to simultaneously vote Democratic as a pragmatic decision while also believing they're generally bad people perpetuating a bad status quo. If someone specifically argues about their choice to not vote (in a contested election), it's reasonable to argue on those grounds, but it usually seems like people resort to this angle because they don't really have any other plausible argument to use. *this is a hypothetical for the sake of analogy, not referring to actual historical events
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Dec 14, 2017 09:18
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Obama was the best president since FDR.
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Dec 14, 2017 09:20
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yronic heroism posted:Tell us more which positions were fygm I’m so eager to hear your wisdom if you are dispensing The one where the wiping out of the majority of black wealth in the country was met with "eat it suckas".
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Dec 14, 2017 10:54
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Ganson posted:Immediately pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq and the situation now would be 10 times worse. Man why did Democratic voters conclude both parties are the same and stop showing up 
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Dec 14, 2017 11:14
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If it's any consolation, Obama has to go to sleep every night knowing he directly led to Trump becoming President with that gag about Trump during the Correspondent's dinner.
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Dec 14, 2017 12:11
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VitalSigns posted:Man why did Democratic voters conclude both parties are the same and stop showing up yep look at all those black democrats in alabama who stopped showing up
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Dec 14, 2017 12:20
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Hold up a sec while I slap down this super exceptional outcome as an example of the norm.
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Dec 14, 2017 12:29
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If there's one example of dem tribalists being among the most self-defeating people on the planet, it's when they dismiss an eight-year-long losing streak culminating in the total marginalization of the party with a couple of exceptionally good results, which is made even sadder by most of them doing this because they basically need to massage their own egos.
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Dec 14, 2017 12:37
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botany posted:yep look at all those black democrats in alabama who stopped showing up The conversation is about the Obama years, champ. "Well Obama is a politician of course he'll sell out" is how we got 8 years of losses. I'm as happy as you that it's changing now that Republicans got back in and have cast off the masks and just gone full horrorshow but I'd rather it not have been necessary. And if the next Dem thinks he can get away with favoring his rich buddies because Republicans are so bad that Dems can get away with anything, the Repubs will get right back in. Aren't you German. How is corporate bootlicking working out for the SPD at the ballot box...oh God right.
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Dec 14, 2017 14:46
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As I've said, Obama's legacy is ultimately going to be lucky if he makes it into the future version of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnN_JoIBkzw
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Dec 14, 2017 14:58
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Ganson posted:He didn't gently caress up the recovery from the housing crash too horrendously (yes I know half the country hasn't recovered, I live in a not-poo poo top 20 city because an idiot could tell the rural country was going to get boned either way, eat it suckas), Jesus christ, have some loving empathy you sack of poo poo.
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Dec 14, 2017 15:00
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WampaLord posted:Jesus christ, have some loving empathy you sack of poo poo.
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Dec 14, 2017 15:14
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~•~meritocracy*~* People in poor towns who don't move out should just die! *Loses every level of government*
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Dec 14, 2017 15:27
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Ganson posted:Neither party was going to stop the flow of business guy stripper titty coke money. that's a huge problem don't you think?
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Dec 14, 2017 15:28
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WampaLord posted:Jesus christ, have some loving empathy you sack of poo poo. I grew up in central pa, roughly around where Trump had like 8 rallies. Any sympathy I had for rural voters who bitch and moan about their position but do zero about it while voting against their own interests and shaming anyone who leaves/educates themselves/etc was stomped out loooong before all of this. edit: To be clear, my ire is directed toward white rural voters. I have all the sympathy in the world for the people who are in a poo poo situation through no fault of their own. Admittedly I'm also a white piece of poo poo who constantly forgets they exist because where I grew up there were like 2 black people and 1 asian (who was a shitlord for other reasons) in the entire county. Considering I'm posting on occasionally popular comedy website something awful dot com my opinions about rural voters mean gently caress all anyway. Ganson fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 15:28
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A reminder that Obama was the president during this https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a12787808/jp-morgan-mortgage-scam/ A scam worth billions of dollars that destroyed peoples lives
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Dec 14, 2017 15:37
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I'm going to blow your mind:ready? Structural unemployment is inherent in capitalism because a reserve pool of unemployed is most profitable for the capitalists who keep wages down by putting the poor against each other. It is impossible for everyone who wants a job to even have a lovely one, nevermind a good one. Blaming the poor for their predicament merely piles unjust scorn on the victims of an unjust system. And this is bad even in your philosophy of amoral greed because unless you suppress their votes, they'll vote against you even if it means electing an unqualified con man.
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Dec 14, 2017 15:38
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Ganson posted:I grew up in central pa, roughly around where Trump had like 8 rallies. Any sympathy I had for rural voters who bitch and moan about their position but do zero about it while voting against their own interests and shaming anyone who leaves/educates themselves/etc was stomped out loooong before all of this. Are you somehow unaware that the goddamn great recession hit groups besides rural white people, and that most of those groups aren't even close to recovering what they've lost?
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Dec 14, 2017 15:39
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Cerebral Bore posted:Are you somehow unaware that the goddamn great recession hit groups besides rural white people, and that most of those groups aren't even close to recovering what they've lost? Yes, how exactly can I fix this? I donate every month and vote for the people who nominally are the best chance for them to get a better life. I'm not super man, despite what my facebook says.
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Dec 14, 2017 15:41
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Ganson posted:Yes, how exactly can I fix this? I donate every month and vote for the people who nominally are the best chance for them to get a better life. I'm not super man, despite what my facebook says. It's not about you, by yourself, fixing the problem. It's about having empathy.
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Dec 14, 2017 15:47
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Koalas March posted:It's not about you, by yourself, fixing the problem. It's about having empathy. I'm not going to pretend to have empathy when I don't. I have empathy for poor black and hispanic citizens who are stuck in awful conditions in rural areas though a combination of generational poverty and actively racist policies by white politicians. As far as rural whitey is concerned outside of lgbt people they can get hosed for all I care. They'll never change and aren't worth a Wendy's dollar menu items worth of  on my part. Their towns will continue to die their slow deaths while the children they have that are worth anything will flee to the cities at the first opportunity.
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Dec 14, 2017 15:52
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Ganson posted:I'm not going to pretend to have empathy when I don't. I have empathy for poor black and hispanic citizens who are stuck in awful conditions in rural areas though a combination of generational poverty and actively racist policies by white politicians. As far as rural whitey is concerned outside of lgbt people they can get hosed for all I care. They'll never change and aren't worth a Wendy's dollar menu items worth of This sounds fair to me. My empathy to my oppressor is limited. I still empathize with any members of that community who are outnumbered by the deranged racist loons, though.
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Dec 14, 2017 15:54
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joepinetree posted:A reminder that Obama was the president during this P sure Bush was President for the financial crisis/TARP but nice try blaming the black person. Or are you just mad Obama didn’t literally drone strike Wall Street. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 15:57
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Koalas March posted:This sounds fair to me. My empathy to my oppressor is limited. I still empathize with any members of that community who are outnumbered by the deranged racist loons, though. The misunderstanding is absolutely my fault. I speak with scorn about rural voters constantly without qualifying that I mean white rural voters because that's all I experienced growing up.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:00
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I enjoy the talk about just ~bootstrapping out~ of rural poverty as if every drat person, young or old, doesn't essentially wake up every morning to
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Dec 14, 2017 16:02
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Remember when that meant that a man with a wife and three kids would have to stay in a well compensated, unionised 9-5 weekday job until retirement?
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Dec 14, 2017 16:20
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Inescapable Duck posted:Remember when that meant that a man with a wife and three kids would have to stay in a well compensated, unionised 9-5 weekday job until retirement? Someone here said "remember when being moderately competent at your 9-5 job you would eventually retire from was something to be depressed about?" and that's really loving terrible.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:22
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yronic heroism posted:P sure Bush was President for the financial crisis/TARP but nice try blaming the black person. Did you not read the article, or are you just being a disingenuous rear end? The settlement with JP Morgan was reached in 2012. In 2012 JP Morgan had already sold the debt it owned on millions of properties. Then, throughout 2012 and 2013, JP Morgan sent letters forgiving the debt that it no longer owned, and used that debt forgiveness to reduce the amount it owed the government due to the settlement. Absolutely nothing there happened during Bush's term. Obama's DoJ chose not to go after JP Morgan for that. In fact, it signed off on accepting the debt forgiveness as a way of paying off the penalty even after this scheme was pointed out.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:41
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DOJ is not supposed to take marching orders from politicians. Kind of important since Trump is now president.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:47
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joepinetree posted:Did you not read the article, or are you just being a disingenuous rear end? Are you really surprised that yronic thinks defending Obama's e-honour is far more important than even acknowledging the obscene behaviour of Wall Street towards poor people in general and poor minority comminuties in particular?
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Dec 14, 2017 16:49
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yronic heroism posted:DOJ is not supposed to take marching orders from politicians. Pretty sure the attorney general answers to the president. I mean, unless your argument is that Trump also has nothing to do with what Sessions is doing now.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:50
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More to the point, the president gets to appoint the AG and Obama could easily have picked somebody he knew would have gone hard after Wall Street if appointed, but instead he went and reassured the fat cats that they naturally wouldn't have to face any real consequences.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:53
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Oh Snapple! posted:I enjoy the talk about just ~bootstrapping out~ of rural poverty as if every drat person, young or old, doesn't essentially wake up every morning to My position has little to do with bootstrapping out of rural poverty, though I'm more than willing to throw this argument back in their obnoxious anti-education/learning/questioning things about the world (anti-intellectual is a poo poo phrase) faces (again I'm talking about whitey not the rest).
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Dec 14, 2017 17:05
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Ganson posted:My position has little to do with bootstrapping out of rural poverty, though I'm more than willing to throw this argument back in their obnoxious anti-education/learning/questioning things about the world (anti-intellectual is a poo poo phrase) faces (again I'm talking about whitey not the rest). i came from a rural red state and i've never encountered people being hateful that i moved away and i am kinda curious how your position isn't pro-bootstraps when you're mocking people for not moving away from the economic deadzones like you did
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Dec 14, 2017 17:11
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Condiv posted:i came from a rural red state and i've never encountered people being hateful that i moved away I'm not mocking them for not moving away. I'm mocking them because in my experience large majorities discounted every possible action they could take to improve their situation and then bitch when their situation doesn't improve. I experience less hatefulness that I left (no one cared enough to hate me that much outside of family who are supportive) and more that everything I did when I was still there was mocked mercilessly. And here I am years later still doing it with a bright future, great job, great house, no debt, and a couple g/fs who like doing wildly inappropriate things with me and each other on a regular basis. A lot of my opinions on the subject revolve around, "None of you supported me when I was nothing and now that I'm something you can sod right off."
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Dec 14, 2017 17:20
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Oh Snapple! posted:I enjoy the talk about just ~bootstrapping out~ of rural poverty as if every drat person, young or old, doesn't essentially wake up every morning to I don't think anyone here is saying that. We're saying it's hard to muster up sympathy for white idiots who continue to act against their own interests just to stick it to minorities.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:20
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Reserving absolutely all your scorn for poor rural white people is a bit of missing the target, because they're by and large shut out of power on a systemic level. More efficient to mainly point the finger at the capitalist class and the suburban GOP-voting petty bourg, who are at the very least just as much of a bunch of racist, hateful and ignorant assholes, except that they do hold real power in society, and hence do far more harm. So while you're not required to sympathise with people who vote against their own interests, you should at least keep some perspective here.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:25
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Cerebral Bore posted:Reserving absolutely all your scorn for poor rural white people is a bit of missing the target, because they're by and large shut out of power on a systemic level. That is absolutely not the case. They are in fact over-represented due to how the senatorial election and electoral college systems work. If anything they'll be given even more influence as their homes thin out in favor of their children moving to the city. (again, I'm talking about white rural america. I'm not factoring in the systemic disenfranchisement of black and hispanic voters) Eventually this will become untenable through sheer numbers, but we're not there yet.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:27
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