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Initial trip report: ahahahaha oh god they can't have tested this at all. The Brenner is utterly ridiculous - with silence skills/Frenzy I'm getting 200-ish damage with 72acc/68 stability. It's like a slightly less accurate M308 with a 150 round magazine (and effectively infinite ammo thanks to the high pickup) that you can at-will make a more accurate M308. The Buzzsaw's even worse. Not really sure about the Vulcan change, though.
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Dec 15, 2017 00:10
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day 2 keeps crashing on one down 
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Dec 15, 2017 01:48
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EorayMel posted:day 1 keeps crashing on one down Fixed that for you. Also y'all should probably not try One Down right now because it crashes as soon as the host masks up on day 1.
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Dec 15, 2017 03:00
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 Crash WarningThe new heist cannot be played on Normal or One Down at this time. The heist crashes immediately. I believe difficulty-specific enemies are set improperly, but I'm not sure of the details. Additionally, a prop has an improperly set interaction cue on the right side of the escape on the last day of the heist. If any player approaches the object (it looks like a garage door button), the host and all players will crash. I think it's left over from a build where the escape was going to be shorter, but in any case, Stick to the left edge of the escape route on the second day. We should probably expect a hotfix shortly. As far as the incredibly dumb homogenization of the LMGs along 40 point value ratios...well, that's Jules for you. It follows the pattern of simplification and power creep that he seems to insist on taking, showing an ongoing ignorance of role-based design and, well, most of the rest of the more complicated ways that the game's systems interact. Enjoy, I guess. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Dec 15, 2017 |
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Dec 15, 2017 06:27
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Dawn of LMG superiority. Unless it's patched. Also Bain 
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Dec 15, 2017 09:43
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Discendo Vox posted:As far as the incredibly dumb homogenization of the LMGs along 40 point value ratios...well, that's Jules for you. It follows the pattern of simplification and power creep that he seems to insist on taking, showing an ongoing ignorance of role-based design and, well, most of the rest of the more complicated ways that the game's systems interact. Enjoy, I guess. The Brenner and RPK changes *almost* make sense, except for the fact that he's tripled their base damage. The Buzzsaw/KSP didn't need accuracy and pickup buffs either. The damage increase/stability nerf seems to come from wanting to incentivize bipod mode, but bipod mode is still a deathtrap. With just straight damage buffs, the LMGs could have carved out a niche similar to PD:TH where they are powerful, provided you can hit anything with them. On One Down they kind of fill that role with the new changes, but on Overkill and below they're just murder machines with bottomless ammo. It's almost like the health values are too large and varied across difficulties to effectively balance the game around. 
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Dec 15, 2017 11:10
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Yeah, it’s the base damage that’s telltale here- both that it’s massively increased and homogenized, but also that it’s set to multiples of 40. He’s curving the whole damage structure around post-housewarming health values, probably on DW.
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Dec 15, 2017 12:42
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Discendo Vox posted:Yeah, it’s the base damage that’s telltale here- both that it’s massively increased and homogenized, but also that it’s set to multiples of 40. He’s curving the whole damage structure around post-housewarming health values, probably on DW. Looking forward to all ARs getting +40 damage next year.
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Dec 15, 2017 12:55
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So I’m all for absurdly powerful LMGs but what the actual gently caress??? Are they going to start balancing all weapons after DW or OD now? Is the game’s eternal cycle of making things more powerful, realizing that it’s gotten a bit too easy, add another difficulty level on op of it to counteract the power creep, and then start balancing around that ever going to stop?
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Dec 15, 2017 14:16
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watho posted:Are they going to start balancing all weapons after DW or OD now? Is the game’s eternal cycle of making things more powerful, realizing that it’s gotten a bit too easy, add another difficulty level on op of it to counteract the power creep, and then start balancing around that ever going to stop? As for Overkill, it was pretty much the copclick and chill difficulty long, long before then.
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Dec 15, 2017 15:16
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It’s not just the power creep, it’s also the homogenization. Each of these changes has removed or reduced differences between weapons.
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Dec 15, 2017 16:42
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Explaining what Jules did right is a much shorter list than what he did wrong (the last two years) For example, he
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Dec 15, 2017 17:21
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Discendo Vox posted:Yeah, it’s the base damage that’s telltale here- both that it’s massively increased and homogenized, but also that it’s set to multiples of 40. He’s curving the whole damage structure around post-housewarming health values, probably on DW. To be honest the Brenner and RPK would be fine sitting at 80 damage with the current stability penalty. All the low damage ones simply needed a bump up to 40 base damage; 36 ensured they were always a point or two short of a breakpoint unless you stacked all 3 of body expertise, frenzerker and specialized killing. If they want these changes to make any sense they'll need to roll back the pickup buffs, and also bring back the old movement penalty and inability to use silencers.
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Dec 15, 2017 17:43
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Update 168.1 Changelog Update size: 14,3Mb General Fixed an issue that cause safety deposit boxes to be a lot harder to open Fixed the 45 Degree sight that was misaligned on the Union 5.56 Rifle Fixed a graphical issue on the Union 5.56 Rifle when using the Tactical Laser Module Reservoir Dogs Heist Fixed a crash related to a button near the escape on day 1 Fixed lootbags remaining in the air after Mr. Blonde leaves Fixed a crash that could occur in the beginning of day 1 on the One Down difficulty
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Dec 15, 2017 18:32
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See now I want to fire up this game again. Running around clicking cops with an LMG is what I really wanted out of this game, now it's viable!
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Dec 15, 2017 18:34
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ThatOneGuy posted:See now I want to fire up this game again. Running around clicking cops with an LMG is what I really wanted out of this game, now it's viable! As someone who's loved the LMG since it was introduced, despite all its flaws and drawbacks, this update is manna from heaven. It's inspired me to finally actually play again after I reinstalled back before halloween (then had it sit idle virtually the entire time up until yesterday). It's great.
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Dec 15, 2017 22:22
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here's a mod idea: all of jacket's pager interactions are replaced with different parts of the Steamed Hams moment
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Dec 16, 2017 01:10
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I just had a game on aftershock deathwish were everybody got into custody by doing their best three stooges routine while trying to enter the truck, but one guy somehow slipped in the driver seat and was completely impervious to the horde of cops shooting him. He stayed in the invincible truck for about 5 minutes, then daringly left and got back in, thus triggered the liftoff escape. It was so bizarre and he was the only one that got away 
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Dec 16, 2017 03:33
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I got my One Down Aftershock achievement in that manner. Good bug.
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Dec 16, 2017 04:02
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Crackdown is nearing readiness for its soft launch. I'll work up a feature list and post it soon. Get hype for Day 3!
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 00:39
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New heist is fun, with the achievements not being too annoying for once. Not too happy with the grenade launcher nerfs, but at least they seem to have fixed spawn groups because I'm no longer seeing 6 shields spawn all at once. New LMGs are going to be hilarious with Body Expertise and that skill that allows you to penetrate enemy body armour. But before long some grognards are going to complain and get it nerfed like they got the launchers nerfed.
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Dec 18, 2017 11:52
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Oh no those loving grognards are at it again why can't we just enjoy our laser LMGs.  Totallybalanced.jpeg 
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Dec 18, 2017 13:55
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UnknownMercenary posted:Oh no those loving grognards are at it again why can't we just enjoy our laser LMGs. This except unironically.
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Dec 18, 2017 14:01
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Most have seen it already but for those who hadn't: Jules explained the changes and, predictably, he wasn't paying any attention at all to a long-rear end suggestions & feedback thread about why no one was using LMGs
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Dec 18, 2017 14:08
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Not only did Overkill not accept any of the feedback from the feedback sub-forum they set up in the aftermath of the One Down update, they also went ahead and nuked the entire sub-forum so it's like none of that player feedback ever happened. This is just the regular amount of community interaction from Overkill.
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Dec 18, 2017 14:19
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UnknownMercenary posted:Oh no those loving grognards are at it again why can't we just enjoy our laser LMGs. The worst group of people in this community are those who care way too much about weapon stats. I don't like that Overkill listened to them about launchers, but their inevitable tears almost make Overkill's ham-fisted attempts at weapon rebalance bearable.
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Dec 18, 2017 17:16
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I can think of many more worse aspects of the Payday 2 community. Besides Overkill has made it overwhelmingly clear that any discussion about balance is just shouting into the void until they surprise drop some awful changes a year later.
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Dec 18, 2017 17:29
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See, I'm gonna break the mold and say this was a good change. The right response to the too-high HP numbers on cops for overkill and up is to just ratchet up weapon damage so that everything's on the same general level of power as shotguns. LMGs now have that. Body expertise with an LMG is now a great fuckin' build. Fartgun LMGs without Body Expertise are now a great fuckin' build. It feels like actually having a machinegun when the LMG cuts cops down like wheat beneath the scythe. Please also buff SMGs, ARs, handguns and sniper rifles now. Shotguns, GL's and LMGs are all three now in a pretty happy/good place. Bring everything else up to this level, plzkthxbye. Also the akimbo Grimms are pure delight and have made Hitman into a great perk deck. I should really update my guide with perk deck stuff but basically the list of perks that suck entirely is down to Yakuza. Sociopath is actually an excellent pairing for a Tag Team buddy, as is Stoic and/or Kingpin. Misdreavous and I were having quite a fun time on the new heist on mayhem with him Tag Teaming my Sociopath, just standing in the street effectively invulnerable.
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Dec 18, 2017 18:46
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Somebody recommend me "good" gimmick builds for my next infamy. A pubbie told me to do a one down viable melee build but I do not know how.
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Dec 18, 2017 18:53
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*kicks open door, staggers into room carrying stack of pizzas and design documents* Sorry for the wait, heisters! Day 3 is here!
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Dec 18, 2017 19:17
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Discendo Vox posted:*kicks open door, staggers into room carrying stack of pizzas and design documents* This is...quite thorough. Eventually this will be hamfisted in the vanilla game right?
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Dec 18, 2017 19:37
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maswastaken posted:Most have seen it already but for those who hadn't: Jules explained the changes and, predictably, he wasn't paying any attention at all to a long-rear end suggestions & feedback thread about why no one was using LMGs I mean, clearly this was a ham-handed and poorly thought out change to the LMG stats to try and address the LMG "problems". But I was someone that was using LMGs very frequently even when they were sub-40, even when they slowed you down, the entire time. This update remains a christmas miracle for me...which is why I hope it at least lasts through christmas, so I can enjoy it a little longer before they overreact and nerf the gently caress out of them as a clumsy response to criticism.
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Dec 18, 2017 20:25
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When LMGs slowed you down, enemy health wasn't so hideously inflated that having to score a second shot was an issue.
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Dec 18, 2017 20:31
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chairface posted:See, I'm gonna break the mold and say this was a good change. The right response to the too-high HP numbers on cops for overkill and up is to just ratchet up weapon damage so that everything's on the same general level of power as shotguns. LMGs now have that. Body expertise with an LMG is now a great fuckin' build. Fartgun LMGs without Body Expertise are now a great fuckin' build. It feels like actually having a machinegun when the LMG cuts cops down like wheat beneath the scythe. Please also buff SMGs, ARs, handguns and sniper rifles now. Shotguns, GL's and LMGs are all three now in a pretty happy/good place. Bring everything else up to this level, plzkthxbye. Or you know, they could just not have everything have too-high HP. That seems like a much more reasonable response. LMGs did used to cut everything to pieces before Overkill's lead designer decided that giving police units over 1000 health was a good idea. But it's looking pretty likely that they're just going to buff everything else instead so you're getting what you wanted. Maybe this is for the best; pistols already needed a rework before the One Down update, and 80 damage rifles long had zero reason to exist as long as 160 damage rifles did as well with very few comparative drawbacks. UnknownMercenary fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 21:40
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Fewer shots to kill is the end result either way and the way we all want it to go, so if Jules wants to get us there by adjusting weapon damage UP to the inflated health values instead of the other way around I'm happy enough with the end result, whatever mental gymnastics were involved in getting there.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:30
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chairface posted:Fewer shots to kill is the end result either way and the way we all want it to go, so if Jules wants to get us there by adjusting weapon damage UP to the inflated health values instead of the other way around I'm happy enough with the end result, whatever mental gymnastics were involved in getting there. I'd agree with you, chairface, except it requires trusting them to perform the execution well. Adjusting weapon damage up involves a lot more changes than reversing on health.
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Dec 18, 2017 23:24
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Other than inflated HP, the sheer number of enemies is still a problem. Re-balancing weapon stats should be done concurrently with re-examining enemy HP and/or numbers.
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Dec 19, 2017 02:56
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I found a new wishlist item: 
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Dec 19, 2017 04:36
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I found a new wishlist item: SUPERDOZER DEPLOYING IN THREE, TWO, ONE!
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Dec 19, 2017 04:47
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Psion posted:Explaining what Jules did right is a much shorter list than what he did wrong (the last two years) drat he's even crashing posts now
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Dec 19, 2017 06:13
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