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Democrats benefit from gerrymandering in blue states too, they're just not as good at it. Gerrymandering is a cause that VOTERS want pursued, not parties.
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Dec 16, 2017 19:02
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Most individual reps are happy with their gerrymandered district. Who wouldn't want to be in a D+80 packed district so you get re-elected with no risk for the rest of time?
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Dec 16, 2017 20:15
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gowb posted:I wanted to address this even tho it was pages ago. I live in the Deep South. It isn't as blood red as idiots like you think. For a long time, Louisiana has had democratic representatives and senators and even governors, like our current John Bel Edwards. Alabama going democrat isn't that amazing. That a race against a loving pedophile was so close IS. No, you're right. A state that voted for Trump by 28 points suddenly experiencing a 30-point swing in an off-off-year special election is nothing crazy. Nothing to see here, folks. Pack it in. Look, I realize there were some mitigating factors. Roy Moore being a disgusting pedophile and too far-right even for the right wing was already known, but Republicans have such a massive built-in advantage in Alabama that everyone figured that would just turn a 30-point laugher into a 5-6 point victory. Are you really that surprised that we're surprised? Alabama has, for the last 30 years or so, given us nothing but our racist Keebler Elf AG and a Republican governor that was too corrupt even for fellow Republicans. Is it such a stretch to say "Wow, I can't believe this normally very Republican state elected a decently center-left Democrat to the Senate"? This was absolutely earth-shattering for the GOP and a huge boon for Democrats. We can only hope that they learn the correct lessons from it. Also note that I didn't say "the Deep South". I said "Alabama". Alabama is, right now, probably the reddest state left in the Old Confederacy. Even Mississippi is only R+8 or 9, and Democrats can win in Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida. Fritz Coldcockin fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Dec 16, 2017 |
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Dec 16, 2017 20:17
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Instant Sunrise posted:Manchin voted to confirm Jeff Sessions. Charlz Guybon posted:The best example is Joe Manchin. He votes with Trump 53.7% of the time, but Trump's margin in WV was +42.2. His Trump plus/mius is -39.2. That's the 4th best in the Senate. 
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Dec 16, 2017 20:20
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cheetah7071 posted:Most individual reps are happy with their gerrymandered district. Who wouldn't want to be in a D+80 packed district so you get re-elected with no risk for the rest of time? Corrine Brown actually joined the Republicans in fighting against the lawsuit about Florida gerrymandering.
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Dec 16, 2017 20:29
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joepinetree posted:Corrine Brown actually joined the Republicans in fighting against the lawsuit about Florida gerrymandering. Good loving riddance.
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Dec 16, 2017 22:28
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Sephyr posted:The fact that they haven't made gerrymandering a cause to shout about from the rooftops is already a decent sign that they won't. I've heard 3 reasons why they avoid messing with voting access: We all know what needs to happen. The way to solve America’s problems is so obvious and easy but both parties and every politicians and bureaucrat in Washington will perform the most astounding mental gymnastics that would make the entire Russian Olympic gymnastics team look like rank amateurs to tell you why it can’t happen or why we need to wait. Nothing short of a revolution will change a drat thing.
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Dec 16, 2017 22:57
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Chilichimp posted:Democrats benefit from gerrymandering in blue states too, they're just not as good at it. Another issue is that Democratic gerrymandering is arguably not good in the long run, as we’ve seen in deep blue states that still have Democrats doing poo poo tier things. Without any opposition, the Dems are free to revel in their worst impulses. In the absence of any rightward pressure there needs to be some kind of leftist alternative to pressure the Dems or they’ll just ignore their voters since they’ll always win.
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Dec 16, 2017 23:12
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https://twitter.com/steckel/status/942074310914490368 this is kind of tangential to the "Dems being trash" conversation, but holy lol I knew Feinstein was trash but how the gently caress hasn't she been primaried years ago
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Dec 17, 2017 00:12
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Aves Maria! posted:https://twitter.com/steckel/status/942074310914490368 Statewide campaigns are very expensive to run in California. DiFi is rich as all hell.
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Dec 17, 2017 00:20
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Lmao Feinstein is the worst Dem in Congress and way worse than Manchin for lots of reasons.
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Dec 17, 2017 00:41
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GlyphGryph posted:Lmao Feinstein is the worst Dem in Congress and way worse than Manchin for lots of reasons. And less likely to get the boot.
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Dec 17, 2017 00:43
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Manchin's likely Republican opponent is Don Blankenship, who you might remember being the guy that was basically responsible for the Upper Big Branch mine disaster that killed 29 people. He's incredibly self absorbed and completely unrepentant for what he did (he blames Obama for what happened in case you're curious!), so he's going to lose bigly.
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Dec 17, 2017 01:46
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Aves Maria! posted:https://twitter.com/steckel/status/942074310914490368 I won't stand in the way of anyone finding reasons to dislike Feinstein but uh that flag event was in 1964, not '84. She had nothing to do with it.
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Dec 17, 2017 02:20
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Filipino Freakout posted:I won't stand in the way of anyone finding reasons to dislike Feinstein but uh that flag event was in 1964, not '84. She had nothing to do with it. Yeah a cursory google search confirms that this was in '64, not '84, and Feinstein was not mayor at that time. Edit: actually nevermind, it was put back up in '79? Google is offering conflicting accounts, I am perplexed. http://sfbayview.com/2015/08/1984-confederate-flag-of-slavery-taken-down-from-san-francisco-civic-center-3-times/ This is the only source I can find referencing the flag coming down in 1984 and Feinstein. Other hits are only referencing it in '64. http://blog.sfgate.com/thebigevent/2015/06/21/in-1964-a-confederate-flag-flew-in-front-of-sf-city-hall/ This is the article that the first one in this post is referring to, I think. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Dec 17, 2017 |
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Dec 17, 2017 02:25
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Kraftwerk posted:Nothing short of a revolution will change a drat thing. That's not true at al,l things like theSquare Deal, New Deal or the Civil Rights Act got done without revolution against just as bad opposition. Sometimes revolutions are necessary but all that immediately proclaiming "only a revolution can do anything" does whenever bad times come is depress peoples will to actually take decisive action and seize political power. We just saw Alabama elect a Democrat senator because they actually bothered to get people out to seize their political power, we can do it nationwide.
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Dec 17, 2017 03:21
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Filipino Freakout posted:I won't stand in the way of anyone finding reasons to dislike Feinstein but uh that flag event was in 1964, not '84. She had nothing to do with it. that teaches me for taking the word of twitter people
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Dec 17, 2017 03:40
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Filipino Freakout posted:I won't stand in the way of anyone finding reasons to dislike Feinstein but uh that flag event was in 1964, not '84. She had nothing to do with it. You sure? https://twitter.com/WarWomensRights/status/942085019463503872
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Dec 17, 2017 04:59
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So this is the same article I posted referencing this event, or at least it's the same text, and these are the only two sources anywhere I can find referencing this. There's barely any references to the '64 incident but there's literally no other sources besides this one page blurb about this event. It isn't in her Wikipedia page either. I'm not saying they're lying, but this story basically doesn't exist on the internet outside that page as far as I can tell. Edit: the piece by Peter Hartlaub is the only story I can find referencing the 1964 incident as well, it's in two different places. So basically there's one source referencing it in '64 and one in '84 and otherwise there's nobody who's ever written a drat thing about this event. 
Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Dec 17, 2017 |
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Dec 17, 2017 05:12
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http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1984/5/9/a-viable-alternative-pi-am-not/ this mentions it too, and mayor dianne feinstein ordering its replacement Lightning Knight posted:So this is the same article I posted referencing this event, or at least it's the same text, and these are the only two sources anywhere I can find referencing this. There's barely any references to the '64 incident but there's literally no other sources besides this one page blurb about this event. It isn't in her Wikipedia page either. the above article from the harvard crimson also references the event
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Dec 17, 2017 05:20
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Feinstein is SO much worse than Manchin.
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Dec 17, 2017 05:22
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It's easy to believe that Manchin is the best the DNC can do in West Virginia. There is NO excuse for Feinstein. She needs to be gone.
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Dec 17, 2017 05:24
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Condiv posted:the above article from the harvard crimson also references the event This is interesting, but it only corroborates the part about her having the one Fort Sumter flag taken down. How are there only three articles in communist newspapers about this, this should've made every local paper. Edit: I mean you can argue that "the papers didn't like the protestors" but there should've been at least editorials against the protestors, conservatives calling for the guy who climbed the poll to be jailed. I can't believe something like this would've happened and it wouldn't have generated some kind of mainstream press coverage.
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Dec 17, 2017 05:28
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Lightning Knight posted:This is interesting, but it only corroborates the part about her having the one Fort Sumter flag taken down. It's believable to me. Papers traditionally put the lid on a lot of stories and that's more true the further back you go.
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Dec 17, 2017 05:35
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It’s kind of a silly thing to focus on, anyway. There’s easier ways to go after Feinstein on.
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Dec 17, 2017 05:37
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You could probably check the microfiche of the local paper, but you'd have to actually be in the city for that 
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Dec 17, 2017 05:39
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Democrazy posted:It’s kind of a silly thing to focus on, anyway. There’s easier ways to go after Feinstein on. I actually don’t agree, if we could get some decent sources on it, it would be something really strong to hit her for. Nobody is gonna give a poo poo about articles from communist newspapers 30 years ago though. 
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Dec 17, 2017 05:39
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Lightning Knight posted:This is interesting, but it only corroborates the part about her having the one Fort Sumter flag taken down. the harvard crimson is not a communist newspaper. it's the student newspaper of harvard. the very first sentence of the article from the crimson makes itself clear that it is not a communist account: quote:I am not a Spart. Nor am I now or have I ever been a member of the Communist Party. also, what was the confederate flag doing up there two times and why did it need removed two times under her tenure if she wasn't responsible for it LK? as you said, she had the power to have flags like the fort sumter flag removed, so if the confederate flag bothered her at all it shouldn't have returned, and she should've ordered it taken down. that she didn't is problematic enough
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Dec 17, 2017 05:40
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Condiv posted:the harvard crimson is not a communist newspaper. it's the student newspaper of harvard. I assumed it was an editorial, I.e “see even non-communists see that this is hosed up.” I’m not arguing that it wouldn’t have been bad on Feinstein’s part. I’m saying that there are surprisingly few sources and apparently nothing from normal local papers on the subject and the sources we have are liable to be dismissed. I am legitimately shocked that there isn’t a dozen articles on this, it would’ve been crazy even in ‘84. Edit: to be clear, I think if you could find this story in a local paper people couldn’t dismiss as biased, you could run an entire primary campaign on “Feinstein defended Confederate flags from anti-racist activists.” Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Dec 17, 2017 |
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Dec 17, 2017 05:43
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Some of the local SF papers don't have online archives that go that far back; you're going to have to have someone hit up a library and take a look at the microfiche. The examiner stops in 06 and the chronicle goes to 85. If it's real, you'd definitely find it, since "guy climbs flagpole to tear down flag" is a good story.
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Dec 17, 2017 05:53
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Lightning Knight posted:I assumed it was an editorial, I.e “see even non-communists see that this is hosed up.” Finding small time info from even 2008 is tough, the internet is not particularly good for this stuff. For example, the info about lieberman getting assurances he’d maintain his seniority and committee positions took me quite a bit of searching to find, and it’s been only a little more than 8 years. I do not believe the student newspaper of harvard decided to make stuff up that echoes a communist publication in 1984, so that it agrees on all the facts put forth indicates to me that they’re true
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Dec 17, 2017 05:55
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Condiv posted:Finding small time info from even 2008 is tough, the internet is not particularly good for this stuff. I don’t think they made it up, but I think you’d have a hard time convincing a lot of people that. I wish I could actually check the physical archives like Grapplejack mentioned. I really want to know what else was written about this and to be able to definitively prove it happened.
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Dec 17, 2017 05:58
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Lightning Knight posted:I actually don’t agree, if we could get some decent sources on it, it would be something really strong to hit her for. The moment someone brought it up, we almost immediately stopped talking about Feinstein’s connection (which remains unclear, even from the articles) to it. It’s convoluted in comparison to talking about her voting record for Trump’s nominees, for instance. A Teamsters Joint Council (an amalgamation of locals) endorsed an opponent of Feinstein today. Even that strikes me as a more significant story.
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Dec 17, 2017 06:00
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Some of you people really do not understand how politics work. If the story gets traction then we don't have to prove it's veracity—It'll be on Feinstein to prove it's fake.
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Dec 17, 2017 06:01
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The connection is strong and the story is simple: Feinstein defied anti-racist activists in support of the confederate flag.
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Dec 17, 2017 06:04
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lol if you think this flag poo poo will matter to anyone you probably need to spend less time online
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Dec 17, 2017 06:07
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https://twitter.com/mikeelk/status/942106064077680642quote:Union organisers are hoping that the surprise election of Democrat Doug Jones to a Senate seat in Alabama this week could be a big win for organized labor in a state that has long fought to curtail their power.
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Dec 17, 2017 07:03
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For everyone getting their hopes up in Doug Jones, I've got a bridge made out of magic beans to sell them.
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Dec 17, 2017 07:13
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I loving told you guys Jones was good. 
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Dec 17, 2017 07:15
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Jones is gonna lose in 2020 unless he's running against the zombified corpse of Roy Moore's political career so he might as well try to do the best he can and not even worry about re-election
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Dec 17, 2017 07:21
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