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That guy in the background with the  face who's taking a picture is prime avatar material.
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Dec 17, 2017 05:16
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None of you motherfuckers are free from ideology.
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Dec 17, 2017 08:11
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Trabisnikof posted:None of you motherfuckers are free from ideology. ok? 
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Dec 17, 2017 08:17
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blocked. blocked. blocked. you're all blocked. none of you are free from ideology
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Dec 17, 2017 14:10
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Lightning Knight posted:Um, what? I'm sure Obama is smarter than you or I and knows more things than you or I and worked harder than you or I can even imagine, and that's as much as he could do.
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Dec 17, 2017 14:21
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Cingulate posted:Obama did some vaguely centrist-liberal stuff and your right-wing spectrum mostly lost their minds and elected a Shrieking White-Hot Sphere Of Pure Rage. What if he actually had nationalised a few banks and redistributed money towards Urban Poor People? "The white-hot sphere of pure rage literally couldn't rage any harder!" - I think you're being much too optimistic, it's quite possible it could. Maybe it would have won the popular vote or something. that you are incapable of imagining a better world does not make a better world impossible
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Dec 17, 2017 14:23
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Cingulate posted:I'm sure Obama is smarter than you or I and knows more things than you or I and worked harder than you or I can even imagine, and that's as much as he could do. lmao
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Dec 17, 2017 14:46
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Cingulate posted:Obama did some vaguely centrist-liberal stuff and your right-wing spectrum mostly lost their minds and elected a Shrieking White-Hot Sphere Of Pure Rage. What if he actually had nationalised a few banks and redistributed money towards Urban Poor People? "The white-hot sphere of pure rage literally couldn't rage any harder!" - I think you're being much too optimistic, it's quite possible it could. Maybe it would have won the popular vote or something. Or maybe if he'd actually showed some decisive results instead of tepidly trying to compromise with literal madmen large parts of the Dem base would't have been completely demoralized and stayed home on election day? Elections are won by turning out the base, and during the Obama years the Dems have been shooting themselves in the foot on that one so hard they've lost control of every level of government. Besides that, this utterly sycophantic attitude towards your political idols is one of the big reasons why the GOP keeps winning. If you never hold your leaders to account for the obvious mistakes they make, you get the kind of lazy complacency that completely cripples your chances of winning. See the entire Democratic establishment last year for what happens then.
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Dec 17, 2017 14:54
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Cingulate posted:Obama did some vaguely centrist-liberal stuff and your right-wing spectrum mostly lost their minds and elected a Shrieking White-Hot Sphere Of Pure Rage. What if he actually had nationalised a few banks and redistributed money towards Urban Poor People? "The white-hot sphere of pure rage literally couldn't rage any harder!" - I think you're being much too optimistic, it's quite possible it could. Maybe it would have won the popular vote or something. I'm sorry, but this post is contained with so many general statements that it is effectively meaningless. Do you think leaving homeowners out to dry the way that he did was really doing "as much as he could"?
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Dec 17, 2017 16:17
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Obama might have well as instituted Full Communism, it wouldn't have made Republicans any less mad. Republicans hating Democrats doesn't mean anything any more. The Democrats refuse to learn this.
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Dec 17, 2017 18:05
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Cingulate posted:Obama did some vaguely centrist-liberal stuff and your right-wing spectrum mostly lost their minds and elected a Shrieking White-Hot Sphere Of Pure Rage. What if he actually had nationalised a few banks and redistributed money towards Urban Poor People? "The white-hot sphere of pure rage literally couldn't rage any harder!" - I think you're being much too optimistic, it's quite possible it could. Maybe it would have won the popular vote or something. Trump won because Obama voters stayed home, and if Obama had been more aggressive about publicly protecting homeowners and normal people at the expense of the wildly unpopular bankers his entire presidency would’ve played out differently. And yeah, Obama is smarter than me. That doesn’t mean he didn’t make mistakes as president.
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Dec 17, 2017 18:11
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just a sweet german boy who really loves obama 
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Dec 17, 2017 18:19
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Also, shut the gently caress up Cingulate. Nobody likes you. "Cingulate posted:Yes, I think it matters. From a certain set of premises, I'd say it's logically consistent to murder all the Jews, but me saying that is a completely different thing from me saying we should murder all the Jews.
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Dec 17, 2017 18:26
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Lightning Knight posted:
I dispute this, not because of anything but Obama has done or did, but i firmly believe while there are people who can have genius ideas, there are no geniuses. Humanity still runs on wetware and the sooner we destroy this fundamental assumption of intelligence being classified in tiers instead of spectrums of relative applicability, the better.
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Dec 17, 2017 18:58
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Cingulate posted:I'm sure Obama is smarter than you or I and knows more things than you or I and worked harder than you or I can even imagine, and that's as much as he could do. Worked hard at trying to gently caress the poor with proposals such as the Grand Bargain? Sure.
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Dec 17, 2017 19:12
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Lightning Knight posted:Trump won because Obama voters stayed home, and if Obama had been more aggressive about publicly protecting homeowners and normal people at the expense of the wildly unpopular bankers his entire presidency would’ve played out differently. But look at this interview, in particular the section on the ACA. He's describing how it came to be: he's come to realise there will be zero cooperation with the GOP. None, just sabotage. So he has to "work democrats". And he's trying to convince people to vote for policies that will cost them reelection. And he gets a bunch of them, and eventually, Romneycare is made law under his name, and it's A Good Thing from what I can tell, and it cost a few democrats reelection. So he was working really hard, and what came out of it was something as watered down as the ACA. That's what it seems to me are the realities of the situation: there's a lot of very different people who have some kind of say on the matter, voters on the left, voters on the right, his own politicians, the other side, a bunch of judges, and so on. And he has to find some coalition that will work at all. He couldn't just say, "ok people, go eat the rich, you have my blessing". Not that he would have wanted to; but I don't see how he could have gotten the votes and the support. (E.: look at this current administration. Surely, they're loving up stuff all around, but I don't think anybody is getting what they want, policy wise, and they have the president and both houses. You think the wall is going up any time soon?) This reads incredibly naive - "get this, the US isn't a dictatorship!" - I know you know all this. But then, proclaiming in hindsight how easy it would have been to go left, that also seems rather naive to me. RuanGacho posted:I dispute this, not because of anything but Obama has done or did, but i firmly believe while there are people who can have genius ideas, there are no geniuses. And I don't see from what angle you'd classify Obama's brains as anything but exceptional. Ze Pollack posted:that you are incapable of imagining a better world does not make a better world impossible Cerebral Bore posted:Or maybe if he'd actually showed some decisive results instead of tepidly trying to compromise with literal madmen Cingulate fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Dec 17, 2017 |
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Dec 17, 2017 20:20
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Cingulate posted:And I don't see from what angle you'd classify Obama's brains as anything but exceptional. From the most obvious angle: Donald Trump is his successor as president of the United States of America.
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Dec 17, 2017 20:53
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alright someone make some coffee, we're gonna sit down and hammer out a rough estimate of obama's iq. i dont care how long this takes lets get crackin people
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Dec 17, 2017 20:58
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Obama was a neoliberal piece of poo poo, and I eat pieces of poo poo like him for breakfast.
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Dec 17, 2017 21:38
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Guys Obama only rode in on the biggest wave of public discontent since Vietnam, obviously he had zero leverage and just had to roll over and take it even on stuff that the President has full control over. Really the best he could do, pinky swear. After all, if he had tried to do anything more, the GOP might have taken over every level of government, and then where would we be?
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Dec 17, 2017 21:48
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My point is Obama could be rated as a very smart and competent guy in one field and a "let's negotiate with this leopard eating my face" in another. Kill your heroes, for no one stands above you.
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Dec 17, 2017 21:56
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We're about to see a reality show host clearly suffering from dementia pass the most radical tax reform in decades with barest of majorities. A deeply unpopular tax reform policy that can potentially destroy the healthcare industry and essentially undoes the linchpin of Obamacare, and which even the supporters are openly willing to admit that is essentially gift to donors. The idea that Obama couldn't have done more seems to be fundamentally flawed.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:15
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joepinetree posted:We're about to see a reality show host clearly suffering from dementia pass the most radical tax reform in decades with barest of majorities. A deeply unpopular tax reform policy that can potentially destroy the healthcare industry and essentially undoes the linchpin of Obamacare, and which even the supporters are openly willing to admit that is essentially gift to donors. The idea that Obama couldn't have done more seems to be fundamentally flawed. Certainly easier to get Republicans on board for tax cuts to the wealthy than to get Democrats on board for any single policy proposal.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:17
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RuanGacho posted:My point is Obama could be rated as a very smart and competent guy in one field and a "let's negotiate with this leopard eating my face" in another. Generally speaking, there's a sizeable correlation between all of the fields of intelligence. RuanGacho posted:Kill your heroes, for no one stands above you. joepinetree posted:We're about to see a reality show host clearly suffering from dementia pass the most radical tax reform in decades with barest of majorities. A deeply unpopular tax reform policy that can potentially destroy the healthcare industry and essentially undoes the linchpin of Obamacare, and which even the supporters are openly willing to admit that is essentially gift to donors. The idea that Obama couldn't have done more seems to be fundamentally flawed.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:21
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i wish i could just say "well they are smarter than me", collect my paycheck and pretend like im doing something good for the world
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Dec 17, 2017 22:22
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The Democratic Party: Acknowledge Your Betters
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Dec 17, 2017 22:24
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cant believe this german boy loves authority
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Dec 17, 2017 22:26
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Trabisnikof posted:Certainly easier to get Republicans on board for tax cuts to the wealthy than to get Democrats on board for any single policy proposal.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:27
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Cingulate posted:Well yes, but 1. he's smarter than you or I in those aspects that matter for these purposes, 2. he's probably also superior in most of the ones that don't. "As good as he did" = series of policies that have been 90% dismantled in a year of Trump, plus letting bankers illegally foreclose on millions of people without repercussions.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:28
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Cingulate posted:As a general point, why not acknowledge your better? Oh my god.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:30
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WampaLord posted:Oh my god. I remind everyone that Cingulate is bad, don't argue with Cingulate.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:35
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WampaLord posted:Oh my god.  I know right?
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Dec 17, 2017 22:36
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gowb posted:Obama was a neoliberal piece of poo poo, and I eat pieces of poo poo like him for breakfast. you eat pieces of poo poo for breakfast?
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Dec 17, 2017 22:39
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joepinetree posted:"As good as he did" = series of policies that have been 90% dismantled in a year of Trump, plus letting bankers illegally foreclose on millions of people without repercussions. He didn't lead you into any new wars, and although this is a risky bet, I think this will also be the measure for future presidents: better or worse than Obama's drone strikes? Drone warfare is bad, but it's so much less bad than Afghanistan or Iraq. That's honestly about what I expect from a Good US President: giving health care to a few tens of millions, and not starting any real new wars. WampaLord posted:Oh my god.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:39
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Cingulate posted:What's the issue? I'm not sure, but I'm fairly confident a good therapist could figure it out.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:46
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WampaLord posted:I'm not sure, but I'm fairly confident a good therapist could figure it out. He should ask his therapist about this too.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:47
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Cingulate posted:That's honestly about what I expect from a Good US President: giving health care to a few tens of millions, and not starting any real new wars. And this is what encourages dems to just be Diet GOP instead of an actual leftist opposition. Because when the bar to clear is six-feet under, why actually try?
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Dec 17, 2017 22:52
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WampaLord posted:I'm not sure, but I'm fairly confident a good therapist could figure it out. C. Everett Koop posted:And this is what encourages dems to just be Diet GOP instead of an actual leftist opposition. Because when the bar to clear is six-feet under, why actually try?
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Dec 17, 2017 23:02
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Cingulate posted:Well, you guys come around a lot, so I'm quite glad any time the result is less than "a few hundred thousand or million dead Iraqi/Vietnamese/Cambodians/Koreans". Yes, I'm easy to please. Do you think hundreds of thousands of people in the developing world weren't killed as a direct result of Obama's choices as president? Or is our intervention in Libya more humane so those dead people don't count?
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Dec 17, 2017 23:03
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Cingulate posted:I think that's a healthy outlook – unless you have a shaky self esteem. In that situation, such comparisons are probably ill advised. Apparently obama supporting a violent fascist coup in honduras doesn’t count for you
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Dec 17, 2017 23:05
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