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Big Mean Jerk posted:They’re not wrong though. They bitched about TFA being too close to the OT and now they’re bitching about The Last Jedi deviating too far from it. But it doesn't stray from it. The movie cites the OT the whole time. Sure, about half the time it tries to subvert it, but that doesn't change that it relies on you knowing the scene and in conjuring up your expectations. I found TFA, despite being a retelling of ANH being less beholden to the OT and feeling more like its own movie (copying a straightforward story instead of the mashed-up mess of TLJ helped a lot of course).
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Dec 17, 2017 18:59
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I don't think I've even seen people complaining that Last Jedi is too different from the original movies, the weakest elements are the parts that swipe from Empire/Jedi(and it swipes a lot even if it tries to remix them) My main problem is it wastes a bunch of time on things that seem like rough draft forms of ideas that really detract from the 25% of the film that is amazing.
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Dec 17, 2017 20:05
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I’ve seen people everywhere complain about the tone, the humor, and some of the characterization being far too different from the OT and that those are huge sticking points for why they don’t like it.
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Dec 17, 2017 20:23
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i'd say the second half of the film is stronger than the first half (especially the casino scenes, bunch of wasted potential there) but i've heard fanboys cry foul over how the Force works. apparently TLJ Force is Disney-canon and not Lucas-canon i dunno Lucas-canon was just "making things float" and pushing things anyway. ghost force lightning did make me laugh though
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Dec 18, 2017 03:35
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They're probably referring to Lucas' weird idea that "balance" of the Force was no Dark side at all. While in TLJ Rey is taught about how it comes from a mix of life and death, creation and destruction.
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Dec 18, 2017 03:55
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muscles like this! posted:They're probably referring to Lucas' weird idea that "balance" of the Force was no Dark side at all. While in TLJ Rey is taught about how it comes from a mix of life and death, creation and destruction. Throws all the eastern spiritualism out the door though.
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Dec 18, 2017 03:59
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I liked the suggestion someone somewhere made once that the Force was some degree of consciousness and the reason Light and Dark side are fighting and killing each other off is because its sort of forcing things to balance itself out but poo poo gets thrown out of whack due to the users and recruitment tapping into it.
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Dec 18, 2017 04:04
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there's a whole galaxy/universe. why can't light and dark side users pursue their interests in separate places???
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Dec 18, 2017 04:15
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FilthyImp posted:That makes kiiiiiind of sense if you assume the force is a net positive, creative energy and Dark Side practitioners are perverting its potential for personal gain. That was Lucas' idea, yes - there is no "light side," only the Force and its dark side, and balance is the dark side not existing at all.
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Dec 18, 2017 04:27
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muscles like this! posted:They're probably referring to Lucas' weird idea that "balance" of the Force was no Dark side at all. While in TLJ Rey is taught about how it comes from a mix of life and death, creation and destruction. Which tracks well with the philosophies Lucas was working with, where death and destruction are parts of the cycle. It's trying to defy that cycle that gets you all Dark Side.
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Dec 18, 2017 04:28
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In Lucas' films (and Rogue One), you actually have the Christian stance is that balance is impossible. You are presented with the negation of a negation: where you have the thesis 'balance' and its antithesis 'unbalance', the synthesis is that the concept of balance is itself unbalanced, i.e. that the harmonious status quo is built on violence and injustice. Christ does not bring peace but a sword, and Vader brings balance to the Force in the only way: by destroying it (himself, its incarnation). Abrams' film is an erroneous 'fundamentalist' version that promotes the violent elimination of disharmonious elements with the goal of purifying the universe (that is, what FilthyImp says), while Episode 9 apparently presents this westernized version of Buddhism where it's like "the answer is in the middle, don't rock the boat."
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Dec 18, 2017 04:31
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FilthyImp posted:That makes kiiiiiind of sense if you assume the force is a net positive, creative energy and Dark Side practitioners are perverting its potential for personal gain. I wouldn't be so quick to say that. "Eastern spiritualism" isn't some monolithic whole, and any religion will have competing sects.
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Dec 18, 2017 04:35
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Gatts posted:I liked the suggestion someone somewhere made once that the Force was some degree of consciousness and the reason Light and Dark side are fighting and killing each other off is because its sort of forcing things to balance itself out but poo poo gets thrown out of whack due to the users and recruitment tapping into it. Kreya from KotOR2 kind of had that viewpoint, in that she felt the force wasnt some passive thing but instead had some semblance of will that it exerted on people. An unknowable macroversal intelligence playing with your life without any care for the consequences. Schwarzwald posted:I wouldn't be so quick to say that. "Eastern spiritualism" isn't some monolithic whole, and any religion will have competing sects. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 04:42
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I tend to have strong feelings whenever I leave the theater but without a doubt episode 8 is the single worst movie I have ever seen. There's hardly even a pretense of morality any more. All the pulp elements have been excised.
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Dec 18, 2017 06:18
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Okay have you seen a film called Battlefield Earth
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Dec 18, 2017 06:49
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Disney movies that are bad are bad because they're soulless, gutless, overproduced messes designed to work as well domestically as internationally. Haven't seen jedi yet (waiting for the insufferable early bird crowd to move on) but i'm betting if it sucks it's because disney is clamping down and marvelizing it.
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Dec 18, 2017 07:00
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Sinding Johansson posted:I tend to have strong feelings whenever I leave the theater but without a doubt episode 8 is the single worst movie I have ever seen. There's hardly even a pretense of morality any more. All the pulp elements have been excised. Not only that, it constantly makes references to the pulp elements from the earlier films and then goes "LOL no, we're not playing by those rules any more, things turn out differently now." The Force Awakens was trying way too hard to pay tribute to the OT and it really feels like The Last Jedi was trying too hard to invert the tropes from the OT rather than just tell its own story its own way.
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Dec 18, 2017 07:17
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Sinding Johansson posted:I tend to have strong feelings whenever I leave the theater but without a doubt episode 8 is the single worst movie I have ever seen.
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Dec 18, 2017 07:21
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I'm a huge Star Wars fan and have been since I was a little kid. I loved The Force Awakens and Rogue One. Bought my ticket for The Last Jedi the instant they went on sale. Saw it the other night and it was...pretty underwhelming. Saw it again tonight to make sure I wasn't going insane, and nope, still disappointing. I find it really weird that people think The Force Awakens was too safe when I feel the exact opposite. Last Jedi is too safe if anything. I was pretty bored through most of the movie, honestly, and I can't say I'd ever voluntarily watch it again.
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Dec 18, 2017 10:47
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The Force Awakens was super super safe. Which is fine. But it was. They even had a Death Star and trench run to cap the film off.
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Dec 18, 2017 11:12
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The Disney Wars...... are garbage!??? Both garbage!!??? THe main trilogy???
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Dec 18, 2017 11:17
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Disney Star Wars 3 is the best Star War besides Fox Star War 2.
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Dec 18, 2017 11:21
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The Last Jedi is the most I've enjoyed watching a Star Wars film.
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Dec 18, 2017 12:23
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Really the Harry Potter planet sucked in its irrelevancy, and it was very odd how the usual ragtag-band-of-misfits-tricks end up failing this time.
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Dec 18, 2017 12:34
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It's not that odd when that's what the point of the film was. Failing and facing the failures.
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Dec 18, 2017 12:43
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Guys. Some of us haven't seen the movie yet. Can we keep the talk about the ending and major themes in the two Star Wars threads?
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Dec 18, 2017 13:16
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I keep forgetting which threads I end up in. Star War chat ends up spilling everywhere and gets super confusing.
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Dec 18, 2017 13:20
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I'm stunned literally everytime I see the ad for that Hugh Jackman staring PT Barnum hagiography where it's all inspirational and woke.
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Dec 18, 2017 13:32
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I always figured the thing with the Force is that, as Rey did, people think it's a collection of superpowers themed to your morality, when more of the point is that it's a living undercurrent of the universe whose agenda doesn't always line up with conventional morality or sanity. Sith are known to exercise powers of creation and healing- as Darth Plagueis is said to have mastered- which Jedi seem to have no equivalent too, being happy to use technological healing and prosthetics to deal with their injuries. While Rogue One heavily implies that the Rogues are basically on a mission from
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Dec 18, 2017 13:33
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Moon Atari posted:I'm stunned literally everytime I see the ad for that Hugh Jackman staring PT Barnum hagiography where it's all inspirational and woke. I've seen trailers for that three times now. I'm not greatly familiar with the history, though I'm guessing it's quite a contrast to even well-known real events.
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Dec 18, 2017 13:34
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FilthyImp posted:That makes kiiiiiind of sense if you assume the force is a net positive, creative energy and Dark Side practitioners are perverting its potential for personal gain. I vastly prefer this setup, even though it is through and through Christian. There is no question if you can be a bit fascist and a bit evil and still be considered a good guy. The Force is good and all the stuff Dark Jedi and Sith do is a perversion of it. You can be redeemed, but you have to renounce the Dark Side. All the Grey Jedi poo poo is what I really don't like. Reality is enough of shades of grey for me. Unfortunately the fanboys are in charge of it all by now and they loooove this Grey poo poo, so it will come sooner or later in full force. Decius fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 13:59
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Inescapable Duck posted:I've seen trailers for that three times now. I'm not greatly familiar with the history, though I'm guessing it's quite a contrast to even well-known real events. PT Barnum was a notorious conman and racketeer. His entire career was built around scamming people out of as much of their money as he could with boldfaced lies and cheap tricks. Which would make an excellent movie, opposed to what looks like a wide-eyed inspirational tale about the wonder and majesty of spectacle.
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Dec 18, 2017 14:59
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No PT Barnum taught us all that because you're different that just makes you special not less than, you are all special unique individuals who he definitely didn't exploit. Being in a "freak show" or novelty act was empowering.
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Dec 18, 2017 15:11
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Is it actually a PT Barnum story or is it just a generic could be any showmaster type thing? Cause it’s probably not gonna go into animal cruelty
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Dec 18, 2017 15:27
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Hugh Jackman is actually playing PT Barnum. No animals (outside of a carriage drawn by two zebras for some reason?), just the all-singing all-dancing crap of the world.
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Dec 18, 2017 15:35
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Gatts posted:Is it actually a PT Barnum story or is it just a generic could be any showmaster type thing? It's explicitly PT Barnum which, as has been pointed out, is almost impressive in its brazenness
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Dec 18, 2017 15:39
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Decius posted:I vastly prefer this setup, even though it is through and through Christian. There is no question if you can be a bit fascist and a bit evil and still be considered a good guy. The Force is good and all the stuff Dark Jedi and Sith do is a perversion of it. You can be redeemed, but you have to renounce the Dark Side. All the Grey Jedi poo poo is what I really don't like. Reality is enough of shades of grey for me. Unfortunately the fanboys are in charge of it all by now and they loooove this Grey poo poo, so it will come sooner or later in full force. Grey Jedi is pure D&D alignment imported into a different franchise where it makes no sense.
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Dec 18, 2017 15:55
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There are two star wars threads Mierenneuker posted:Hugh Jackman is actually playing PT Barnum. No animals (outside of a carriage drawn by two zebras for some reason?), just the all-singing all-dancing crap of the world. Nice
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Dec 18, 2017 15:55
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Halloween Jack posted:Grey Jedi is pure D&D alignment imported into a different franchise where it makes no sense. D&D alignment makes no sense and encourages poor table play, Grey Jedi is just people who arent exposed to religious reformation movements struggling to come up with Reform Jedi or Jedi of the Latter Day Force Sensitive
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Dec 18, 2017 16:54
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Al Borland Corp. posted:No PT Barnum taught us all that because you're different that just makes you special not less than, you are all special unique individuals who he definitely didn't exploit. Being in a "freak show" or novelty act was empowering. Well to be fair if you listen to what actual freak show performers of the time have said working in a freak show meant you could actually make a living and do something with your life and travel with people from similar happenstance and was way better than the alternative of rotting in a sanitarium or church and trying to get by in a pre-ADA world. One doc on the subject I watched back in the 90s even had surviving people from the era complaining about the "do-gooders" trying to put them out of work from some misplaced sense of righteousness.
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Dec 18, 2017 17:09
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