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Vegetable posted:I just rewatched Rogue One's third act and can confirm it's the best thing ever in any Star Wars movie. It got the taste of this film out of my mouth at least. Isn’t the third act of Rogue One the only part Disney meddled in by basically telling Gareth Edwards to get in the back seat and let Hollywood veteran Tony Gilroy rewrite and reshoot it?
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Dec 18, 2017 21:54
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I think the third act of this movie rivals Rogue One, but they're similar in that they have sloppy pacing with fairly long stretches of boredom in the first two thirds.
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Dec 18, 2017 21:56
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Basebf555 posted:It feels like a pretty serious time jump might be necessary. I mean, we now have what we're being told is the "spark" of a rebellion, but are we really supposed to believe they can put that all together in a matter of weeks or even months? That, plus Carrie Fisher's passing seems to make a several year skip one of the more elegant solutions to the problems that this film created for the franchise going forward. I'd argue something like 5 years would be perfect, enough for the status quo to have developed significantly, but not long enough to force too many cast changes. Yeah I feel like 9 will have Leia's funeral or something early in the piece. Luke's sacrifice story has already spread to the stable kids at the end of 8 and will be the forging of the rebellion not just a call for help on a salty rock.
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Dec 18, 2017 21:57
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I've already seen theories that the main reason they demonstrated Luke using force projection was so that we're not surprised when it's revealed that Snoke was doing it too and that he's still the Big Bad. My personal hope is that Rian Johnson just faded Luke out of the shot as an artistic choice to show time passing and he's very confused why people think he's dead. TG-Chrono posted:Yeah I feel like 9 will have Leia's funeral or something early in the piece. Luke's sacrifice story has already spread to the stable kids at the end of 8 and will be the forging of the rebellion not just a call for help on a salty rock. Would the galaxy-at-large even need to be made aware that Luke had died? All they know is he clowned Kylo with a jedi mind trick and then disappeared, and I'd think he'd serve better as a spark to ignite hope if everyone thought he was still out there. Hobo Clown fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 21:59
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Waffles Inc. posted:Not he alone though. At the very least he, Finn and Rose. The idea to destroy the tracker was Finn and Rose's plan, concocted together. Poe...I'm not even sure...facilitated it? Put them in touch with Maz (which I thought was odd since I guess the entire Resistance knows Maz now?) and then...encouraged them? Finn and Rose had the impulse to tell Holdo, Poe discouraged it.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:02
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Hobo Clown posted:I've already seen theories that the main reason they demonstrated Luke using force projection was so that we're not surprised when it's revealed that Snoke was doing it too and that he's still the Big Bad. Nah, Snoke's dead. Holograms don't fall in half like that. At some point, he might have intended to be a hologram, but that probably changed to just focus on the character people actually like as the villain.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:03
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Luke is gonna still be around, I bet more than we'd expect. He's gonna be constantly looking over Kylo's shoulder harassing him and Hamill will be amazing in that role.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:04
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He's gonna project himself as Vader for Kylo, and then be like "SIKE!" and reveal his true form. Kylo will get pissy and throw something at him.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:05
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That movie was all over the place. Comedy. Death. Tension. Casino vacation. Subversions of expectations. Subversions of subversions. Followed the plot of Empire with a little ROTJ tossed in. "Kill the past." Too many characters. Cute robot murder spree. I didn't mind space Leia. Though she could have done the Holdo part and not be in a coma. Titty milk was odd but not the worst. Rose needed a better introduction. I kept wondering when they were going to drop the random group add. Actually, that whole casino part was awful. Why not go get fuel? How did hacker DJ know about the plans that no one was told about in order to tell the First Order? Can't see Luke trying to kill a kid. Guy went solo into the Death Star to save Vader. I also have no idea who the antagonist is now. Kylo Ren? Already lost twice to Rey. Hux is a joke character. There is no tension there. Half our group loved it. I would have loved to see the movie they watched.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:05
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Z. Autobahn posted:Finn and Rose had the impulse to tell Holdo, Poe discouraged it. So Finn and Rose concocted the plan, took it to Poe (or does Poe stumble upon them? I honestly don't remember), he said, "nah I don't trust her" or some such and then connected them to Maz. I think we're losing the plot a bit though, what I can't reconcile is why Poe is to blame for BDT's turning traitor. Is it simply because they went on the mission at all?
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Dec 18, 2017 22:13
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Basebf555 posted:I think the third act of this movie rivals Rogue One, but they're similar in that they have sloppy pacing with fairly long stretches of boredom in the first two thirds. This film doesn't even have the best space collision in Star Wars. Rogue One had the awesome and brave sacrifice of the crew of the hammerhead corvette!
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Dec 18, 2017 22:17
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I would be really looking forward to the next movie if Johnson was doing it, because yeah there's no clear path forward but I'm sure it would be interesting. The combination of Abrams being back, losing Carrie Fisher who was apparently a big part of their plan for IX, and the fan backlash so far has me worried they're going to play it super safe and it's going to be a straightforward "get to Kylo and win" story.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:17
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Adams worked on this film and was a big fan in it so. I mean don't give up all hope.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:18
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Tender Bender posted:I would be really looking forward to the next movie if Johnson was doing it, because yeah there's no clear path forward but I'm sure it would be interesting. The combination of Abrams being back, losing Carrie Fisher who was apparently a big part of their plan for IX, and the fan backlash so far has me worried they're going to play it super safe and it's going to be a straightforward "get to Kylo and win" story. Luckily I think Johnson left almost no threads for someone to be a hack with, if that makes any sense. There's no way to rehash RotJ, for instance. It needs a AotC -> RotS length time jump I think
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Dec 18, 2017 22:19
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In which there's a 20+ year jump and Rey is played by Kate Beckinsale or something.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:20
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Waffles Inc. posted:So Finn and Rose concocted the plan, took it to Poe (or does Poe stumble upon them? I honestly don't remember), he said, "nah I don't trust her" or some such and then connected them to Maz. Poe isn't to blame for BDT turning traitor. The point is that Holdo felt Poe wasn't to be trusted with sensitive information because he's reckless and insubordinate, and the movie shows us that his reckless and insubordinate actions result in the intel getting leaked to the enemy. It's not that Poe is a total bastard who sucks, it's that he overvalues his own abilities and ideas, to the point of ignoring and not listening to others, and this results in tragedy.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:21
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Star Trek 2009 had Hemsworth's segment which was a hell of a way to open a film. Episode 3 opened with a spectacular space battle with capital ships being torn apart. Hell First Contact had, "prepare...for ramming speed!' If we want to compare averted space collisions like FN's. God episode 8 suckssss
Sinding Johansson fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 22:21
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Deadulus posted:I think TLJ would have set up much greater potential for IX if Rey had accepted Kylo's offer. The problem with Kylo's offer was that dude went full tyrant immediately. Like maybe y'know he could have called for a temporary cease fire on the transports, a pitch to your new partner probably shouldn't START with "Let's kill literally everyone you know and care about". Leave that for the second date. Deadulus posted:
I agree completely, especially because they keep killing the characters they do interact with.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:23
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Hey, was Po originally supposed to die in TFA? It's kinda setup for that to be the case since he doesn't really do anything noteworthy after he and Finn crash at the beginning. If so, I wonder if his whole deal of not trusting rebel leadership and eventually learning to be a team player was meant for Finn instead, who basically gets a dumber version of the same character arc. It would even make more sense with Finn's backstory versus Po just being an rear end in a top hat 
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Dec 18, 2017 22:25
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Waffles Inc. posted:So Finn and Rose concocted the plan, took it to Poe (or does Poe stumble upon them? I honestly don't remember), he said, "nah I don't trust her" or some such and then connected them to Maz. It's not "his fault" in a direct way. Like, he couldn't have accounted for the things that went wrong. But his actions and decisions, along with Finn, rose, holdo and others, are what led to the disasters in the movie. And Luke, Rey, leia, kylo and basically everyone in the movie hosed up in some way that they couldn't really have foreseen entirely, or like taken account of. There's no way, as far as I can tell, to make some kind of thesis that says some given character was totally completely right and if only everyone else had gone along with them. They all had ideas that were maybe kind of good, maybe real bad. They couldn't tell everybody their plan because of various reasons. Like Finn when he gets caught by rose. He's not trying to desert, he believes he needs to find Rey and help her, and that that's his plan.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:26
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Sinding Johansson posted:Star Trek 2009 had Hemsworth's segment which was a hell of a way to open a film. Episode 3 opened with a spectacular space battle with capital ships being torn apart. Hell First Contact had, "prepare...for ramming speed!' If we want to compare averted space collisions like FN's. God episode 8 suckssss The little personal scene in the bomber is great.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:26
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Tender Bender posted:The problem with Kylo's offer was that dude went full tyrant immediately. Like maybe y'know he could have called for a temporary cease fire on the transports, a pitch to your new partner probably shouldn't START with "Let's kill literally everyone you know and care about". Leave that for the second date. Yeah he went straight Tyrant and Rey hadn't been brought close enough to him yet from their link. So it doesn't work as written in the TLJ. Also, part of the friendship story could have been fixed with TLJ being Finn and Poe going on the side quest together instead of Finn and Rose. Could have been shown as bonding time, but instead we get Rose who is killed off at the end of the movie so...
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Dec 18, 2017 22:28
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euphronius posted:Adams worked on this film and was a big fan in it so. I mean don't give up all hope. Waffles Inc. posted:Luckily I think Johnson left almost no threads for someone to be a hack with, if that makes any sense. There's no way to rehash RotJ, for instance. It needs a AotC -> RotS length time jump I think Yea, true. And to be honest I'm a fan of most of TFA. I just would be more excited to see this unconventional plot given room to really grow instead of being a sorta weird blip in the middle. I do think TLJ is heavily flawed and messy but it's also interesting, has some great scenes, and overall I really like it.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:30
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Wolfsheim posted:Hey, was Po originally supposed to die in TFA? It's kinda setup for that to be the case since he doesn't really do anything noteworthy after he and Finn crash at the beginning. Poe wasn't supposed to survive the crash. IIRC before reshoots Finn's character arcs was supposed to go from realizing what he was doing was wrong -> trying to run away -> feeling guilty about his knowledge of the SKB (which he knew a lot about) -> redemption by sacrificing himself for Rey. Then he was made into a janitor with no obvious guilt. It kinda deflates TFA when getting slashed across the back had no obvious repercussions. Finn, Rey, and Poe all have good moments on their own, but their interactions are weird and their character arcs are stunted as gently caress, with Finn essentially re-running his arc from the first film.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:30
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Z. Autobahn posted:Poe isn't to blame for BDT turning traitor. The point is that Holdo felt Poe wasn't to be trusted with sensitive information because he's reckless and insubordinate, and the movie shows us that his reckless and insubordinate actions result in the intel getting leaked to the enemy. It's not that Poe is a total bastard who sucks, it's that he overvalues his own abilities and ideas, to the point of ignoring and not listening to others, and this results in tragedy. I'm probably coming across like I'm defending Poe out of some need for him to be a Virtuous and Unimpeachable Man(tm) when really I think it would be great if this was a deconstruction of him. So at the core I see exactly how you mean, but I just don't think the movie communicates it well enough. There's a glimmer of full indictment of him but I think it's too messy, especially with how it deals with Holdo's fake cloaking device Sinding Johansson posted:Star Trek 2009 had Hemsworth's segment which was a hell of a way to open a film. Episode 3 opened with a spectacular space battle with capital ships being torn apart. Hell First Contact had, "prepare...for ramming speed!' If we want to compare averted space collisions like FN's. God episode 8 suckssss The space bombing sequence was loving dope imvho Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 22:30
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Nates Helvetica posted:Can't see Luke trying to kill a kid. Guy went solo into the Death Star to save Vader. Vader had already committed his genocide, there was nothing Luke could have done about it and Alderann isn't coming back. Ben was going to commit genocide, and Luke thought for a second he could stop it before it could happen.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:38
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Tender Bender posted:People using the force as a tool and a weapon for their own ends but not actually being in tune with it, the galaxy, or with the people around them is a major element of this franchise. Its hammered home again and again. It's how the Emperor was defeated, not because Vader used the Lift Old Man power against him. Luke couldn't have done that, it would not have fit in-universe and would have missed the main theme of the entire trilogy. That you think it would have been better for Rey and Kylo to just beat Snoke in a fight by being more powerful is baffling. They do the same thing against the Royal Guards v.2 and they only have slightly less character than Snoke. There could have been tons of ways to take it, I was just listing one. The Emperor being defeated served as redemption for Vader via his own sacrifice, there was depth there culminating in the end of Luke and Vader's story lines while severing the head of the Empire and bringing an end to it (but lol not really it just came back for this trilogy without explanation!) The death of Snoke just reinforced that Kylo Ren is... drum roll please... bad! To no one's surprise, Kylo Ren seemingly has a change of heart only to become even more eviler than before! Remember when he did this exact same thing in TFA when he killed his father? The whole scene is just an exact retread of Return of the Jedi with no payoff because it happens in the middle of the film and they still need to tack on another 45 minutes to the already overly long film and keep a villain because, welp, this is a trilogy. Everyone keeps praising this film for "throwing out the old" and doing risky poo poo but the more you think about it you realize it's just the same poo poo as all of the other films with little to nothing new about it.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:45
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Basebf555 posted:Luke is gonna still be around, I bet more than we'd expect. He's gonna be constantly looking over Kylo's shoulder harassing him and Hamill will be amazing in that role. I hope he goes full Joker in Arkham Knight, just randomly appearing and constantly loving with him.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:45
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KaptainKrunk posted:Poe wasn't supposed to survive the crash. See, that makes sense, because the plot arc for Finn that goes desertion -> coward on the run -> finds courage to save Rey, but gets hosed up -> learns humility after loving up trying to play hero again in TLJ would fit way more cohesively. Instead its kinda like if suddenly in ROTJ Wedge had his own plotline crammed right in the middle that featured him being an rear end in a top hat to Mon Mothma for some reason and added thirty minutes to the movie (but overall didn't actually change the beginning or end).
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Dec 18, 2017 22:47
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Nates Helvetica posted:Titty milk was odd but not the worst. Most succinct summary of The Last Jedi I've seen yet tbh.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:52
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Waffles Inc. posted:The space bombing sequence was loving dope imvho Ehh it was okay and it was all downhill from there. It couldn't help deflate itself with hokey moments like Rose's actually cool sis catching the the detonator at the very last possible moment. I'm not sure what to think of Poe clowning on Hux.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:53
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s.i.r.e. posted:Everyone keeps praising this film for "throwing out the old" and doing risky poo poo but the more you think about it you realize it's just the same poo poo as all of the other films with little to nothing new about it. The throne room scene in this movie is an alternate reality take where Vader kills the Emperor in RotJ In TFA Kyle tells Vader he'll finish what he started. And he does.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:53
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It would have been so much more interesting if Rey had joined Kylo; it would have turned the trilogy upside down in the best way. Rey joins Kylo in the hopes of reforming him, while he hopes he can turn her to his way of thinking; an uneasy alliance has been struck. Luke and Leia proceed to freak the gently caress out. Hux freaks the gently caress out. Will the FO fragment in two? Suddenly you have all of this narrative tension between light and dark, old and new, ambiguity and absolutism. Holy crap, I can’t wait to see episode 9! But nope, instead, one of the main characters of the trilogy simply disappears and then later reappears on the Millenium Falcon with no explanation, and we are left with a retread set piece from Empire’s first act. There was just so much wasted potential in this movie. I think that’s what upsets me the most.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:54
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Hobo Clown posted:I hope he goes full Joker in Arkham Knight, just randomly appearing and constantly loving with him. I'd be down for this. Waffles Inc. posted:The throne room scene in this movie is an alternate reality take where Vader kills the Emperor in RotJ You mean when he does and when he throws him down the shaft? That alternate reality?
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Dec 18, 2017 23:00
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Given the sequels' dedication to breakneck pacing and everything being immediate and tense, the first two movies take place over the course of...what? 72 hours? Is there a time-jump at the end of TFA between when Rey goes looking for Luke and when she finds him?
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Dec 18, 2017 23:03
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Shitshow posted:It would have been so much more interesting if Rey had joined Kylo; it would have turned the trilogy upside down in the best way. This bugged me too because the build up and payoff of their entire relationship is great up through killing all emperor's guards, but then when you realize his 'new way' is just taking control of the Empire and letting the rebels die it loses its lustre. It's like the movie kept wanting to flirt with subverting Star Wars but then instead of going full KOTOR2 retreated back to its comfortable status quo again.
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Dec 18, 2017 23:05
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Crion posted:Given the sequels' dedication to breakneck pacing and everything being immediate and tense Are you taking the piss
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Dec 18, 2017 23:09
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Waffles Inc. posted:Which of these thing is evidence to you that Poe is a sexist? Poe loves Leia, but he doesn't respect her. It's why he ignores her orders and why he gives the substitute teacher she sends in such absolute hell.
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Dec 18, 2017 23:11
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Z. Autobahn posted:Poe blabbed on an unsecure line about the details of Holdo's secret plan, which let Del Toro hear them and tell the empire. - it was sufficient for the First Order to just look out the window/at a monitor and press the fire button to hit these stealthed ships - there was no stealth at all In either case, it means Poe had a point when he accused Holdo of sending everyone to their deaths by moving them onto transports. Waffles Inc. posted:The throne room scene in this movie is an alternate reality take where Vader kills the Emperor in RotJ Shitshow posted:It would have been so much more interesting if Rey had joined Kylo; it would have turned the trilogy upside down in the best way. Also, on a different subject, I don't know if anyone noticed, but the defining confrontation between Luke and Ben (not the one at the end of TLJ) is clearly TLJ's reference to Han shooting/not shooting first in ANH.
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Dec 18, 2017 23:11
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This movie literally took the wonderful finale of Rogue One and did everything backwards. Its like what if Sinding Johansson fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 23:13
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