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  • Locked thread
Spun Dog
Sep 21, 2004


Smellrose

Duke Igthorn posted:

Read ANY comment section on the topic and there'll be that one person with the "Yeah, but what about all the other people he DIDN'T investigate? He only went after this one guy because he's the least biased and he's just ignoring all the other far more biased people so it will LOOK like there's no more bias left!"

Pass, thanks

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Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Dimebags Brain posted:

A Good Cartoon.

Discendo Vox posted:

This is your periodic reminder that Mike Flugennock works for Russian propaganda agencies.

Murdstone
Jun 14, 2005

I'm feeling Jimmy


I honestly can't understand how anyone can be on the side against net neutrality. Like, what is their actual argument? Is there actually one or is it just complete misinformation and rambles about "Freedom!" from people paid by telecom giants?

World Famous W
May 25, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 11 hours!
EDIT: On second though this might be threat worthy? Not sure, edited out anyways.

World Famous W fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Dec 19, 2017

MrUnderbridge
Jun 25, 2011

Johnny Walker posted:

I honestly can't understand how anyone can be on the side against net neutrality. Like, what is their actual argument? Is there actually one or is it just complete misinformation and rambles about "Freedom!" from people paid by telecom giants?

Pretty much the latter.

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.

Johnny Walker posted:

I honestly can't understand how anyone can be on the side against net neutrality. Like, what is their actual argument? Is there actually one or is it just complete misinformation and rambles about "Freedom!" from people paid by telecom giants?

They literally think the market will save them from ISPs that throttle.

Spiffster
Oct 7, 2009

I'm good... I Haven't slept for a solid 83 hours, but yeah... I'm good...


Lipstick Apathy

wyoming posted:

They literally think the market will save them from ISPs that throttle.

If you don’t like one provider go to the next!

... what? Some markets are exclusively one provider in non compete claused areas?

Boy is my face red.

Crain
Jun 27, 2007

I had a beer once with Stephen Miller and now I like him.

I also tried to ban someone from a Discord for pointing out what an unrelenting shithead I am! I'm even dumb enough to think it worked!

Johnny Walker posted:

I honestly can't understand how anyone can be on the side against net neutrality. Like, what is their actual argument? Is there actually one or is it just complete misinformation and rambles about "Freedom!" from people paid by telecom giants?

50% of the time anti-NN comments are from people who have been convinced it's basically the Fairness Doctrine and think it's been/being used to make conservative media do...something that they don't like.

40% of the time anti-NN comments are making the same bad "some companies are just sucking up too much bandwidth" arguments that gave us "The internet is a series of tubes" way back in 2006

10% of the time anti-NN comments are just from craven corporate shills who are totally down with being able get all fucky again.

TheOneAndOnlyT
Dec 18, 2005

Well well, mister fancy-pants, I hope you're wearing your matching sweater today, or you'll be cut down like the ugly tree you are.

Johnny Walker posted:

I honestly can't understand how anyone can be on the side against net neutrality. Like, what is their actual argument? Is there actually one or is it just complete misinformation and rambles about "Freedom!" from people paid by telecom giants?
The argument is that under NN the government has control over what you can and cannot view on the internet, which is Bad because Government Bad. Except that's basically the exact opposite of what net neutrality is.

King Superman
Nov 14, 2016

Crain posted:

5% of the time anti-NN comments are from people who have been convinced it's basically the Fairness Doctrine and think it's been/being used to make conservative media do...something that they don't like.

4% of the time anti-NN comments are making the same bad "some companies are just sucking up too much bandwidth" arguments that gave us "The internet is a series of tubes" way back in 2006

1% of the time anti-NN comments are just from craven corporate shills who are totally down with being able get all fucky again.

90% of the time anti-NN comments are from bots posting under stolen identities

Mister Mind
Mar 20, 2009

I'm not a real doctor,
But I am a real worm;
I am an actual worm
Expect a happy First Dog on the Moon cartoon soon.

https://twitter.com/firstdogonmoon/status/942910927149527040

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/19/eaten-fish-manus-islands-refugee-cartoonist-moves-to-northern-europe

Technowolf
Nov 4, 2009




1

2

Dimebags Brain
Feb 18, 2013






and?

World Famous W
May 25, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 11 hours!
I guess I ain't got to read any more Tom Tomorrow comics till 2021. At least till the mass shooting one becomes inevitably relevant again.

D O R K Y
Sep 1, 2001


ENHANCE

King Possum III
Feb 15, 2016

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2


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8

ScentOfAnOtaku
Aug 25, 2006

I have no control, I just keep eating, and eating.

Johnny Walker posted:

I honestly can't understand how anyone can be on the side against net neutrality. Like, what is their actual argument? Is there actually one or is it just complete misinformation and rambles about "Freedom!" from people paid by telecom giants?

I'd say one of the biggest factors is the usual conservative cry of "the Government controls our lives too much", which of course is hilarious considering they are also the ones against legal abortions, and various other things. As per usual, it's the everything about Government control is bad, unless its something we want to control.

Tarezax
Sep 12, 2009

MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT
The gently caress is that Kirschen? "Jews Christians will not replace us"?

Regalingualius
Jan 7, 2012

We gazed into the eyes of madness... And all we found was horny.





And I’d very likely be willing to put money down that he’s a part of Russian propaganda efforts to further internally destabilize the US.

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART

What's this one trying to say, that mass shootings will stop in 2018?

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

Johnny Walker posted:

I honestly can't understand how anyone can be on the side against net neutrality. Like, what is their actual argument? Is there actually one or is it just complete misinformation and rambles about "Freedom!" from people paid by telecom giants?

The most rational argument I heard about it is this:
With Net Neutrality, ISPs cannot charge separately for access to certain websites. Let's say that under this system, All Access Internet costs $100 for ease of comparison.
Without Net Neutrality, ISPs will likely break out access or services into "optional" bundles. This could look something like this (again, numbers are just for comparison, and are not meant to be exact):
Basic Internet: $75
Fast Social Media: $10 per site
Fast Streaming: $15 per site

And so for people who don't use social media and maybe use 1 streaming site at most, this will be a price cut. After all, basically everyone complains that they have to get a big bundle when they get TV, so why shouldn't the same rules apply to Net Neutrality?


Now, I'm pretty sure that this is possibly right. Repealing Net Neutrality does have a potential upside in allowing ISPs to provide more customized - and possibly cheaper - services for people. However, A) they probably won't actually be cheaper and B) There are a fuckton of downsides to it as well. Something doesn't have to have literally no possible advantages in order to be Really Bad.

D.N. Nation
Feb 1, 2012


The Cartoonist Doesn't Understand The Republican Tax Bill

Dimebags Brain
Feb 18, 2013





Regalingualius posted:

And I’d very likely be willing to put money down that he’s a part of Russian propaganda efforts to further internally destabilize the US.

K. And?

ryonguy
Jun 27, 2013

We just need to stay calm and vote for centrist Democrats, none of this "fight the actual problem in a literal effective sense" craziness. People who sabotage capital are no better than literal nazi's marching in the streets.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

ryonguy posted:

We just need to stay calm and vote for centrist Democrats, none of this "fight the actual problem in a literal effective sense" craziness. People who sabotage capital are no better than literal nazi's marching in the streets.

We oppose extremists on the right who want to murder all non-whites, ground their bones into dust and build a perfect Aryan union fueled by a hatred unimaginably pure. We also oppose equally extreme movements on the left who want a higher tax rate on incomes over $200,000.

ryonguy
Jun 27, 2013
Honestly though, really impressed that "The russians are destabilizing our country through these crazy leftists!" is coming back in fashion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG6taS9R1KM

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused

Kaza42 posted:

The most rational argument I heard about it is this:
With Net Neutrality, ISPs cannot charge separately for access to certain websites. Let's say that under this system, All Access Internet costs $100 for ease of comparison.
Without Net Neutrality, ISPs will likely break out access or services into "optional" bundles. This could look something like this (again, numbers are just for comparison, and are not meant to be exact):
Basic Internet: $75
Fast Social Media: $10 per site
Fast Streaming: $15 per site

And so for people who don't use social media and maybe use 1 streaming site at most, this will be a price cut. After all, basically everyone complains that they have to get a big bundle when they get TV, so why shouldn't the same rules apply to Net Neutrality?


Now, I'm pretty sure that this is possibly right. Repealing Net Neutrality does have a potential upside in allowing ISPs to provide more customized - and possibly cheaper - services for people. However, A) they probably won't actually be cheaper and B) There are a fuckton of downsides to it as well. Something doesn't have to have literally no possible advantages in order to be Really Bad.

You are correct. The issue is that ISPs have zero incentive to actually make things cheaper rather than just charge us all more. There's not enough competition to force them to do this, so no "free market" solution is going to work.

ScentOfAnOtaku
Aug 25, 2006

I have no control, I just keep eating, and eating.

Internet Kraken posted:

You are correct. The issue is that ISPs have zero incentive to actually make things cheaper rather than just charge us all more. There's not enough competition to force them to do this, so no "free market" solution is going to work.

Canada is a good example of this I think. The CRTC (Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission) made a ruling that our big cable/telecom companies had to make a basic cable package, at an affordable price, and also offer channels without being put in bundles. Their reasoning for this was that Canadians are supposed to have access to the the information on TV, so of course it was seen as a measure to help lower income families get access. It also came from people complaining that the only way they could get a channel like AMC, would be to play for a bundle of around 5 channels, which most would not watch any of the other channels.

So they role out the new rules, and the first thing the companies do is put out a basic bundle which costs as much as it already did for basic cable (my bill actually went up). When people called to ask their cable companies for the new basic package, they would be fed misinformation on what they would be getting, or that they had to bundle all their services together to get access. The singular channels just rose in price to get those channels, to make up for the lost money on the bundled channels. HBO alone up here is $10 just for the channel, which of course does not offer everything that the states gets on their HBO, plus no HBO Go to go with it.

The lesson, as usual, is that a company will never willingly cut a price on anything, and people assuming they will are so naive, I don't know how they made it this far in life.

Our companies were basically told you have to lower prices straight up, and they found every loophole they could to make sure they didn't lose a single dollar.

That said, the CRTC is trash too, so I mean it's pretty much just like the FCC at the moment.

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

Inside those presents are food, shelter, heat, and other incredibly important necessities for the poor.

They both walk to their Abrams tank to drive over to Boeing to give them another Trillion dollars for a plane that doesn't fly.

FlapYoJacks fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Dec 19, 2017

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


Once the poor evolve to properly digest lead bullets and lead water all the problems will be solved!

chairface
Oct 28, 2007

No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.


both sides though, c'mon bro, both sidesssssssssssssssssssssssss

Murdstone
Jun 14, 2005

I'm feeling Jimmy


Kaza42 posted:

The most rational argument I heard about it is this:
With Net Neutrality, ISPs cannot charge separately for access to certain websites. Let's say that under this system, All Access Internet costs $100 for ease of comparison.
Without Net Neutrality, ISPs will likely break out access or services into "optional" bundles. This could look something like this (again, numbers are just for comparison, and are not meant to be exact):
Basic Internet: $75
Fast Social Media: $10 per site
Fast Streaming: $15 per site

And so for people who don't use social media and maybe use 1 streaming site at most, this will be a price cut. After all, basically everyone complains that they have to get a big bundle when they get TV, so why shouldn't the same rules apply to Net Neutrality?


Now, I'm pretty sure that this is possibly right. Repealing Net Neutrality does have a potential upside in allowing ISPs to provide more customized - and possibly cheaper - services for people. However, A) they probably won't actually be cheaper and B) There are a fuckton of downsides to it as well. Something doesn't have to have literally no possible advantages in order to be Really Bad.
Well thanks! That's actually a reasonable if flawed premise.

BlueBlazer
Apr 1, 2010

Internet Kraken posted:

You are correct. The issue is that ISPs have zero incentive to actually make things cheaper rather than just charge us all more. There's not enough competition to force them to do this, so no "free market" solution is going to work.

A reminder the free market believes in data caps.

Another round of "This Cartoonist doesn't understand Net Neutrality" might be appropriate.

Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

Making learning fun!

ScentOfAnOtaku posted:

Canada is a good example of this I think. The CRTC (Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission) made a ruling that our big cable/telecom companies had to make a basic cable package, at an affordable price, and also offer channels without being put in bundles. Their reasoning for this was that Canadians are supposed to have access to the the information on TV, so of course it was seen as a measure to help lower income families get access. It also came from people complaining that the only way they could get a channel like AMC, would be to play for a bundle of around 5 channels, which most would not watch any of the other channels.

So they role out the new rules, and the first thing the companies do is put out a basic bundle which costs as much as it already did for basic cable (my bill actually went up). When people called to ask their cable companies for the new basic package, they would be fed misinformation on what they would be getting, or that they had to bundle all their services together to get access. The singular channels just rose in price to get those channels, to make up for the lost money on the bundled channels. HBO alone up here is $10 just for the channel, which of course does not offer everything that the states gets on their HBO, plus no HBO Go to go with it.

The lesson, as usual, is that a company will never willingly cut a price on anything, and people assuming they will are so naive, I don't know how they made it this far in life.

Our companies were basically told you have to lower prices straight up, and they found every loophole they could to make sure they didn't lose a single dollar.

That said, the CRTC is trash too, so I mean it's pretty much just like the FCC at the moment.

It's more or less the same in the USA. Cable providers have to have a basic package (so local broadcast, maybe a couple extra channels and a whole bunch of home shopping BS). However they are under no pressure to promote or even inform people of it so they just hustle you on the most bloated bundle they can manage. So many people wind up with a bunch of poo poo they never watch, unaware that the basic package would give them what they want (local channels) at a fraction of the price.

ryonguy
Jun 27, 2013

ratbert90 posted:

Inside those presents are food, shelter, heat, and other incredibly important necessities for the poor.

They both walk to their Abrams tank to drive over to Boeing to give them another Trillion dollars for a plane that doesn't fly.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

ryonguy posted:

Honestly though, really impressed that "The russians are destabilizing our country through these crazy leftists!" is coming back in fashion.

Thanks, Ted.

Sandpuppy
Jun 16, 2012

Social Abscess
of the
Universe

Wait...you mean this one might not be real??
https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filing/1051157755251



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I'm hoping we get some good cartoons about the new animatronic Trump at Disney's Hall of Presidents.

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Johnny Walker posted:

I honestly can't understand how anyone can be on the side against net neutrality. Like, what is their actual argument? Is there actually one or is it just complete misinformation and rambles about "Freedom!" from people paid by telecom giants?

Some authority told them to hate NN and they are boot lickers to the core so heck YES Net Neutrality is BAD!
It's as easy as that. The majority of humanity just wants to be led.

World Famous W
May 25, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 11 hours!
That was clearly a Hillary animatronic hastily changed to be Trump. It haunts my dreams and thoughts now.

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Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

World Famous W posted:

That was clearly a Hillary animatronic hastily changed to be Trump. It haunts my dreams and thoughts now.

I thought the exact same thing :hf:

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