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the existence of this conflict is disproof of the idea that the working class is in control btw, because this represents just one out-growth of class conflict inside china, between the workers, you could say the proletariat, and the combined class of party officials and private company owners
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Dec 20, 2017 08:20
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you're equating the government and the party with management and expecting everyone to nod and say "yes, that is how it works" when that is not at all the primary group represented in government
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Dec 20, 2017 08:50
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Dec 20, 2017 09:05
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R. Guyovich posted:you're equating the government and the party with management and expecting everyone to nod and say "yes, that is how it works" when that is not at all the primary group represented in government Their interests are represented in the government thought. Do you think labour representation in the halls of power just happens without a struggle just because you have red flag?
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Dec 20, 2017 09:06
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R. Guyovich posted:you're equating the government and the party with management and expecting everyone to nod and say "yes, that is how it works" when that is not at all the primary group represented in government
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Dec 20, 2017 09:41
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R. Guyovich posted:we're also back to this bullshit separation between socialist states and the working class. what exactly do you think communist parties do yossarian. plug their ears and sing "la la la" when people bring up problems they're facing? idk, ask the kronstadt working class in 1921. or the hungarian working class in 1956. or the workers in PRC's strikes totalling around 3,000 per year. love too equate party bureaucrats with proletarians
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Dec 20, 2017 09:51
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death to all tyrants
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Dec 20, 2017 09:52
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R. Guyovich posted:oh, sure. they pull this poo poo with all socialist states though. some of the particulars may (rarely) change but the song stays the same lmao, beyond using mean income as opposed to median, which includes billionaire wealth, you're deceptively using five figure numbers which are obviously yuan not USD. when some chinese people accumulate hundreds of billions of yuan, of course the mean will go up friendo yeah, china is an east asian success story but that's no different from south korea, singapore, hong kong, taiwan, etc.
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Dec 20, 2017 10:00
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my kid just got hired by nike in my quest to own the means of production, ama
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Dec 20, 2017 10:03
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Yossarian-22 posted:my kid just got hired by nike in my quest to own the means of production, ama Look forward to seeing their "help me" messages written on the inside
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Dec 20, 2017 10:18
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lollontee posted:death to all tyrants death to all who stand in the way of freedom for working people
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Dec 20, 2017 11:03
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rudatron posted:there wouldn't be any need for illegal strikes if what you're saying is true. the fact that chinese workers think differently, and have to engage in workplace agitation for even things like companies not paying their wages, is itself disproof of your idea: no workplace action would be necessary, if you were correct. when you do a deep dive on the strikes you learn an overwhelming majority are demands for pay increases and most of the time the workers win
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Dec 20, 2017 11:53
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Yossarian-22 posted:lmao, beyond using mean income as opposed to median, which includes billionaire wealth, you're deceptively using five figure numbers which are obviously yuan not USD. when some chinese people accumulate hundreds of billions of yuan, of course the mean will go up friendo minimum wages have also tripled and it doesn't matter what currency is used for analysis as long as it's constant. i'm on my phone so can't post but you can check the site yourself. wanna try again?
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Dec 20, 2017 11:56
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weird, china sort of sounds like a one party social democracy
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Dec 20, 2017 15:40
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Karl Barks posted:weird, china sort of sounds like a one party social democracy turns out state capitalism owns?
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Dec 20, 2017 16:18
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*is fed to ravenous hordes in GBS who tear at his flesh* ... the party bureaucrats did nothing wrong *dies*
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Dec 20, 2017 16:21
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https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/status/943515178779467776 the people were astonished at his doctrine
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Dec 20, 2017 17:18
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phil greaves is correct about pop culture
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Dec 20, 2017 17:24
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Old man yells at old man yells at cloud.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:08
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Work Friend Keven posted:Old man yells at old man yells at cloud.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:17
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R. Guyovich posted:minimum wages have also tripled and it doesn't matter what currency is used for analysis as long as it's constant. i'm on my phone so can't post but you can check the site yourself. wanna try again? south korea had the wages of mozambique and became a first world democracy in 25 years. development isn't exclusively a socialist thing (although always necessitates vast state intervention contrary to what neolibs say)
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Dec 20, 2017 19:32
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lol uh oh
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Dec 20, 2017 19:35
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Yossarian-22 posted:south korea had the wages of mozambique and became a first world democracy in 25 years. development isn't exclusively a socialist thing (although always necessitates vast state intervention contrary to what neolibs say) South Korea also didn't really develop until a massive injection of American capital after our failure in Vietnam. It'd also be possible for me to found a business if I got a low interest multimillion dollar loan from my rich Uncle Pennybags.
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Dec 20, 2017 19:35
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:South Korea also didn't really develop until a massive injection of American capital after our failure in Vietnam. It'd also be possible for me to found a business if I got a low interest multimillion dollar loan from my rich Uncle Pennybags. I mean, I can both sides this pretty easily by pointing out that the USSR did the same with its proxies. The point is that the rise in the global standard of living was essentially universal and was done successfully by both "socialist" and capitalist regimes. Hell, there's also that fact of American capital going into China after Nixon's road to Beijing moment Saying "muh living standards" is a weird thing I've noticed tankies do with Stalin and Mao when one could just point anywhere on a globe and get a similar result somewhere nearby. Of course having the American empire on your side post-WWII is no joke
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Dec 20, 2017 20:03
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Yossarian-22 posted:I mean, I can both sides this pretty easily by pointing out that the USSR did the same with its proxies. The point is that the rise in the global standard of living was essentially universal and was done successfully by both "socialist" and capitalist regimes. Development in the capitalist world was also driven primarily by geopolitical motives, is the point. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the vast bulk of global poverty reduction has occurred in China.
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Dec 20, 2017 20:05
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Yossarian-22 posted:when the state owns most of the means of production and not the working class, I mean strictly speaking state ownership under a truly democratic system is EFFECTIVELY worker control of the means of production, indirectly. By my understanding applies better to Cuba than a lot of other socialist states as despite being one party that party membership is fairly open and said membership has considerable influence over the party.
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Dec 20, 2017 20:35
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but in a more egalitarian, less dynamic form
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https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/943626407619579904
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Dec 21, 2017 14:40
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https://twitter.com/SteveKopack/status/943622661753761793 Fifth-Third and Wells Fargo are going to pay their employees $15 minimum lmao
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Dec 21, 2017 14:47
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Congratulations to Matt Yglesias, new Commissar of the Wonks' and Peasants' Inspectorate.
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Dec 21, 2017 14:50
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that's cool but he has to go into the gulag after the revolution
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Dec 21, 2017 14:54
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but who am i kidding. so do i.
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Dec 21, 2017 14:54
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This but unironically
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Dec 21, 2017 14:58
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Can anyone actually explain the dialectic in anything but the vaguest of terms?
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Dec 21, 2017 15:46
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Jizz Festival posted:Can anyone actually explain the dialectic in anything but the vaguest of terms? yes
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Dec 21, 2017 15:49
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I've heard, from those "in the know" about dialectics that Stalin didn't get it right somehow. I'll give it a read though.
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Dec 21, 2017 15:52
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hmm so i wonder what's up with the maoist third-worldists these days, specifically the leading light communist organization (LLCO) *cue the music* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WShMzwT-nM their leader went to prison (possibly a drug arrest) leader hands off the reins to a local cadre named uzi. from what i can tell, uzi expels the incarcerated leader. infighting erupts between the three-member uzi faction (who call themselves the central directorate) and a rival faction called the commanders committee. uzi becomes the "central director" of the central directorate. the commanders committee pejoratively refers to the central directorate as the "teacup committee" or the "teacups." the commanders committee attack the teacups for being "stuck in extreme liberal identity politics" and for not "turning resources over to our third world, non-white, real leadership as instructed." (my question: isn't emphasis on needing non-white leadership also a form of identity politics? well, in any case...) jason unruhe of maoist rebel news seems to have been part of the teacups along with other "mentally ill, gender and social weirdos" according to the commanders committee. unruhe resigned from the LLCO this month for unknown reasons. there was also a dispute over resources going to the "ghana zone," as the commanders committee felt the "bangla zone" should be prioritized. there are now two different websites calling themselves the LLCO. oh and the commanders committee wants to establish an alliance with the alt-right, or something.
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Dec 21, 2017 17:18
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Jizz Festival posted:Can anyone actually explain the dialectic in anything but the vaguest of terms? http://home.igc.org/~venceremos/whatheck.htm
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Dec 21, 2017 17:19
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:hmm so i wonder what's up with the maoist third-worldists these days, specifically the leading light communist organization (LLCO) lol thank you for this post
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Dec 21, 2017 17:21
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It’s a shAme to see this kind of infighting preventing llco from finally reviewing Shrek 3.
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Dec 21, 2017 17:48
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https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/943829664597925888
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Dec 21, 2017 19:24
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