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look, we knew this might happen *loads gold into boat* but we need to see this thing through *ushers family below deck* the revolution depends on you! *casts off and sets course for ibriz*
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Dec 20, 2017 01:32
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| # ? May 15, 2024 17:34 |
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MERCHANTS!!! 
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Dec 20, 2017 01:41
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You can take the Merchants out of Al-Andalus, but you can’t take the utter failure of their every cause out of the Merchants
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Dec 20, 2017 01:47
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Soup du Jour posted:You can take the Merchants out of Al-Andalus, but you can’t take the utter failure of their every cause out of the Merchants You say that like every cause of the Taifas hasn't also ended in failure. The only people actually getting what they want are the Ulema, who never got to set policy in the first place. It's actually kinda elegant, really. 
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Dec 20, 2017 01:50
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Hashim posted:We'll have the chance to become a great power before Vicky starts, yes. I knew we'd be switching to Mahdiyyah! God IS great!
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Dec 20, 2017 01:55
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paragon1 posted:You say that like every cause of the Taifas hasn't also ended in failure. The only people actually getting what they want are the Ulema, who never got to set policy in the first place. We successfully toppled the Jizrunids.  Sure, it had side effects, but by Allah, we did it
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Dec 20, 2017 01:55
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Man when I first started reading this LP in the CK2 days I had no idea it could fall so low. There's still further to go, 
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Dec 20, 2017 02:00
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Erwin the German posted:I knew we'd be switching to Mahdiyyah! God IS great!
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Dec 20, 2017 02:01
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paragon1 posted:You say that like every cause of the Taifas hasn't also ended in failure. The only people actually getting what they want are the Ulema, who never got to set policy in the first place. Ulema coalitions were successful at getting on the board quite a few times, but yes, we remain untainted by the utter failures that reduced the rest of you to this tiny nation beneath glorious Madhiyya.
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Dec 20, 2017 02:03
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ZearothK posted:I take it that's only slightly slimmer chance than the one we have for starting it as a OPM. Ibblebibble posted:Man when I first started reading this LP in the CK2 days I had no idea it could fall so low. Iberia in 1836:   Al Andalus is at it's peak, obviously. Before anyone panics, this is obviously a joke. The Majlis is gonna be wiped out long before 1836.
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Dec 20, 2017 02:04
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The Majlis did this
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Dec 20, 2017 02:04
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AJ_Impy posted:Ulema coalitions were successful at getting on the board quite a few times, but yes, we remain untainted by the utter failures that reduced the rest of you to this tiny nation beneath glorious Madhiyya. The death of the Dalai Ullama was not a tragedy, but was self-inflicted martyrdom. His death brought the true faithful to their rightful place of power.
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Dec 20, 2017 02:07
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Hashim posted:Iberia in 1836: We still own the Baleares. We're still up from CK2 and we've got some room to go downward.
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Dec 20, 2017 02:08
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put the merchants in charge again and i'm suuuuuure that things will go different this time.
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Dec 20, 2017 02:20
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QuoProQuid posted:put the merchants in charge again and i'm suuuuuure that things will go different this time. gonna be rad as gently caress when the folks in this thread learn what Lazzie faire economics do in vicky 2 the hard way
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Dec 20, 2017 02:36
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The Congress of Vienna equivalent will resurrect a unified Iberia under a Jizrunid as a buffer state between France and Morocco, and as a way of dealing with the pesky Catalan revolutionaries/Mahdi fundamentalists/Majlis fuckery.
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Dec 20, 2017 03:15
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QuoProQuid posted:put the merchants in charge again and i'm suuuuuure that things will go different this time. We did real well when the Taifas and the Merchants were 1st and 2nd, and cooperated. Plus the Merchants were great after the big wars where we needed to keep things together. Edit: vv Did it? Weren't they around for only a single session? I had high hopes for them when I joined, but I don't remember them actually getting a chance to do anything. catlord fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 03:24
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I'll have you know that the Diwan was the only faction that was nothing but a positive influence on Al-Andalus.
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Dec 20, 2017 03:34
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:We successfully toppled the Jizrunids. Well if that's your standard then the Merchant's colonization initiatives were an almost unbelievably massive, unqualified success. 
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Dec 20, 2017 03:51
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paragon1 posted:Well if that's your standard then the Merchant's colonization initiatives were an almost unbelievably massive, unqualified success. To be fair, an Al-Andalus colony is no 1. in the new world and basically poised to become an unholy combination of the USA, Mexico and the USCA.
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Dec 20, 2017 06:37
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So if you could pinpoint one field battle where losing was backbreaking enough to start this downward spiral into international implosion which battle would it be?
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Dec 20, 2017 07:02
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paragon1 posted:Well if that's your standard then the Merchant's colonization initiatives were an almost unbelievably massive, unqualified success. it's all about setting the right goalposts (  )
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Dec 20, 2017 07:24
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Agean90 posted:gonna be rad as gently caress when the folks in this thread learn what Lazzie faire economics do in vicky 2 the hard way "For gently caress's sake, stop reopening the same Fertilizer factory only for it to go broke two months later over and over again!"
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Dec 20, 2017 07:32
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Realtalk we needed either to stay merchants or stay Taifas because the projects we were interested in the actions were allowed to do were diametrically opposed from one another.
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Dec 20, 2017 08:18
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Rodyle posted:Realtalk we needed either to stay merchants or stay Taifas because the projects we were interested in the actions were allowed to do were diametrically opposed from one another. Both paths led to ruin. The real trick is to vote for a party allowed to do both without limit, owing to being limited in another direction.
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Dec 20, 2017 11:29
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Hashim posted:We'll have the chance to become a great power before Vicky starts, yes. So what you're saying is you're gonna kill the goon voting aspect of the LP?
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Dec 20, 2017 12:22
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Cerebral Bore posted:So what you're saying is you're gonna kill the goon voting aspect of the LP? Nah, assuming the Majlis stays in power, then the thread will still have a role to play in vicky2 (although with a lot less power than in EU4). I'll explain exactly what's going to happen once I get the next update (the last EU4 update) out.
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Dec 20, 2017 12:40
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Super Jay Mann posted:So if you could pinpoint one field battle where losing was backbreaking enough to start this downward spiral into international implosion which battle would it be? it wasn't any field battle, it was when Hashim kept clicking the "gain 15% autonomy" option in the time of troubles event to RP the continued focus on the war against France. So I blame the Taifas
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Dec 20, 2017 14:12
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Zikan posted:Option C lol
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Dec 20, 2017 16:55
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NewMars posted:To be fair, an Al-Andalus colony is no 1. in the new world and basically poised to become an unholy combination of the USA, Mexico and the USCA. That's Mazula basically
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Dec 20, 2017 17:57
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In the end I'd actually say it was all of us who hosed up! Most of this was really a cock-up cascade of things going to bits rather simultaneously. The Merchants went full oligarchy and took out massive amounts of loans in order to just utterly tank everything. I'd call it spite, but some actually had plans of opening the doors for revolutionaries a long time ago. The Ulema hosed us by selling off all of our Mosques in order to "sponsor the war-effort", which in no easy terms is also just code for "just out of spite" Speaking of spite, our Taifa agenda against both the Merchants and the Ulema - not to mention our northern and southern enemies - caused us to go full Umayyad and cost what it will do our best to succeed where [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusuf_ibn_%27Abd_al-Rahman_al-Fihri]Yusuf ibn 'Abd al-Rahman al-Fihri[/link] failed, which just like him we also failed. Our current allies Bavaria hosed us up by having the audacity to become a Revolutionary government before us, thus stealing our shot at becoming Napoleon and instead ushering in the second great sundering of Andalusia. People will talk about splitting up as "Iberianising" for years to come! Even Paradox hosed us up by having the Times of Trouble event firing several times almost simultaneously, tanking our Autonomy something fierce.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:58
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We were hosed long before that by systematically aligning a number of great powers against us, two of which were done for almost no gain (okay we got some new world territory off the Celts but then they turned the oceans off and set that territory on fire like, 50 times).
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Dec 21, 2017 00:40
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To be fair, the Celts hosed us first. I remember that because we had a notable faction pushing for breaking our alliance with them, and we only barely managed to keep it. Then they broke he alliance the very next update.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:53
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catlord posted:To be fair, the Celts hosed us first. I remember that because we had a notable faction pushing for breaking our alliance with them, and we only barely managed to keep it. Then they broke he alliance the very next update. Yeah, but I'm referring to much later when we outright declared war on them. That took them from unreliable friend/ neutral to enemy when we already had France and Morocco to deal with. We consistently antagonized people we had absolutely no business making blood enemies with France on our doorstep. At no point I can think of did the Majlis ever suggest rapprochement with another power, great or otherwise. We just kept piling up enemies and that pile eventually became a mountain that crushed us at the first sign of weakness. paragon1 fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Dec 21, 2017 |
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Dec 21, 2017 01:41
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catlord posted:To be fair, the Celts hosed us first. I remember that because we had a notable faction pushing for breaking our alliance with them, and we only barely managed to keep it. Then they broke he alliance the very next update. This actually interested me, so I went back and checked the first couple updates, and it turns out that the Ulema were the first to start breaking alliances by using one of their first policies to break our alliance with the Celtic Empire. The Taifas overrode them, and preserved the alliance for a bit longer. Then we got into a war with France, and the Celts refused our call to arms, resulting in Al Andalus getting overrun and losing the war - nobody in the Majlis really wanted them as an ally after that, and they rivalled us a few decades later anyways. Speaking of what could've been, Italy was another potential (and very powerful) ally, with a huge development base at the game's start. But the Majlis ruined any chances of that by insisting we ally with Palermo, who then dragged us into multiple wars against the Italians, and we ended up basically causing their downfall. There's always a lot of argument about the Almoravids as well, so I looked into that a bit. As it turns out, I started EU4 by allying with them in the very first update, and we were actually strong allies for the first few years. We began expanding quickly in Iberia and accumulating a lot of aggressive expansion, so our alliance with them came to an end soon afterwards, but the Almoravids were still very eager to revive the pact within a couple years. The Majlis was getting a bit too big for its breeches by then though, and in this update someone put forth a proposal to begin countering Morocco, and so when Morocco sent us another request for an alliance in that same update, I was forced to refuse it. Furthermore, in accordance with the policy, I ended up insulting and rivalling them too. So I guess that's where the Andalusi-Moroccan rivalry stems from.
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Dec 21, 2017 07:05
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 I think this is the guilty post right here. Here was the beginning of our isolation and downfall!
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Dec 21, 2017 07:26
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Mr.Morgenstern posted:
Wait, what? If we had attacked Morocco early on, then we would have killed their colonial ambitions in the crib. We waited too long.
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Dec 21, 2017 08:10
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Mr.Morgenstern posted:
Taifas!
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Dec 21, 2017 12:10
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Snipee posted:Wait, what? If we had attacked Morocco early on, then we would have killed their colonial ambitions in the crib. We waited too long. Lol no we wouldn't. It'd have killed OUR colonial ambitions by drawing all our resources into eternal hell war with Morocco. And then France would take all our poo poo.
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Dec 21, 2017 15:50
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a common thing in all paradox lps with goon participation is vastly overestimating our military might and playing down the value of a good ally
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Dec 21, 2017 17:06
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