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Bohemian Nights posted:The opposite of all of the above, actually 
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Dec 23, 2017 05:01
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The biggest problem with Discovery is them continually trying to reinvent the wheel. The idea of really exploring Klingons perspective on the war with the Federation is great, but it suffers from the fact that they have made the Klingons far more 2 dimensional than they ever were. The good: The ship. Spinny shot excluded, the design of the ship looks like it belongs in the time period. Simple geometric shapes, smooth pulled, smaller chunky windows. Make it as a physical model with overexposed lighting and it would fit right alongside the TOS Conny. Same with the interior sets, make the lighting flatter and paint everything grey and the sets are actually quite basic while still looking as if they belong in our future. The spore drive is wacky, but that fits in with crazy stuff like the Traveller. The arc of the tardigrade was a great dilemma with a very Star trek resolution. The Vulcan characterizations. The reveal of how Sarek sabotaged Michael's chances to be in the Vulcan fleet was good character development and managed to fit in well with the existing facts we know of the Spock/Sarek relationship.
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Dec 23, 2017 06:29
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I'm just enjoying Discovery, period. I don't think the season is too rough by any stretch. I'm enjoying it more than the stretches of blandness seen in VOY and ENT. Like, I won't even make the excuse for an awful show that it might improve until it actually improves. What matters is if I'm entertained with what I'm given now. I was entertained with what we've got up to this point.
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Dec 23, 2017 06:39
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Echo Chamber posted:I'm just enjoying Discovery, period. I don't think the season is too rough by any stretch. I'm enjoying it more than the stretches of blandness seen in VOY and ENT. Pretty much me too. There’s only been one truly “bad” episode in my opinion, and that was more because it was bizarrely incoherent (Si Vis Pacem...). The rest has ranged from ok to great. It’s made some...bold decisions, but I’d much rather it try to do something weird and fail than rehash the TNG formula once again. Like I can see what they were trying to do with the Klingon stuff, but I can’t say it’s been entirely successful. But something like the spore drive has been super cool, imo.
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Dec 23, 2017 07:09
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The Klingons were much better in the episode where they were allowed to speak English and act, and also knife fights. I hope they do not go back to the boring plodding bullshit.
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Dec 23, 2017 07:12
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DIS hasn't lived up to the premise about T'Kuvma's point of view of the Federation. They briefly state in dialogue about how the Federation was encroaching on the Klingon way of life and will eventually assimilate the Klingon culture, but they don't really make the case in the show so far. There's parallels to be made with people in certain parts of the country feeling 'left behind', whose way of life is being threatened by migrants and refugees. ISIS can also be similarly seen as a strong reaction against the cultural/influence of the West. As far as we know, the only disciples of T'Kuvma left are in L'rell and Voq. When Voq finally reawakens in Tyler and integrates, he'll symbolically be the child of two cultures. Maybe that's how this Klingon war ends for now. I'm generally enjoying Discovery, but some parts feel under-cooked to me. It's also interesting that there's a not dissimilar backlash against both Discovery and The Last Jedi. Impossible to please all the fans. There's a reason they're called 'fanatics'.
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Dec 23, 2017 07:50
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Mark Hamill is correct when he says that TLJ Luke's characterization is driven by the needs of the plot. There's no way the suicidally earnest paladin from RotJ would behave the way he does in TLJ but they needed to make a movie set 30 years later with new stars so Luke's character has to change. Maybe the reason fans don't like new entries in 40+ year old series is that they're bad.
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Dec 23, 2017 08:05
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It doesn't help that those new entries continue to draw from the same era. The events in Discovery are ten years before TOS, but they are just two years before JJ Trek. It would be nice to get out of the mid 23rd century sometime. Other fun timeline stuff. JJPrise launched 13 years later than the original timeline's Enterprise and was destroyed 2 years before Kirk originally started his command. JJPrise was only in service for 5 years and one year of that was a refit after the events of Into Darkness. The original Enterprise lasted something like 40 years and underwent at least 3 refits. Alt timeline crew are poo poo at their jobs. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Dec 23, 2017 |
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Dec 23, 2017 08:23
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Arglebargle III posted:Mark Hamill is correct when he says that TLJ Luke's characterization is driven by the needs of the plot. There's no way the suicidally earnest paladin from RotJ would behave the way he does in TLJ but they needed to make a movie set 30 years later with new stars so Luke's character has to change. Are you trying to say resuscitating elderly brands isn't a good artistic decision?????????????
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Dec 23, 2017 08:39
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Arglebargle III posted:Mark Hamill is correct when he says that TLJ Luke's characterization is driven by the needs of the plot. There's no way the suicidally earnest paladin from RotJ would behave the way he does in TLJ but they needed to make a movie set 30 years later with new stars so Luke's character has to change. He’s had 30 years to read up on the failures of the Jedi Order and then experience it firsthand with his nephew. I love the guy, but Mark Hamill is wrong about Luke and The Last Jedi is a great movie that provides the kick in the pants the franchise needed. Unfortunately, bitter fans who didn’t get the toothless revelations they expected are going to tank the possibilities Rian Johnson gave the franchise and 9 will be another gutless risk-averse homage to the OT. Fans of aging franchises don’t want growth anymore, they want familiarity and nostalgia.
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Dec 23, 2017 08:52
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"Fans" are not a monolithic bloc and it is entirely possible to think that a new version of an old thing loving sucks all on it's own; I haven't seen the new Star Wars but my main impression of STD is of a show too ashamed of it's roots to appeal to nostalgia or familiarity effectively and too ineptly put together to grow anywhere compelling
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Dec 23, 2017 09:28
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Do they celebrate Christmas on the Enterprise? :thinkingface:
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Dec 23, 2017 10:46
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so I could say that I finally figured out what this god damned cube is doing. Get well Lowtax.
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xerxus posted:DIS hasn't lived up to the premise about T'Kuvma's point of view of the Federation. They briefly state in dialogue about how the Federation was encroaching on the Klingon way of life and will eventually assimilate the Klingon culture, but they don't really make the case in the show so far. There's parallels to be made with people in certain parts of the country feeling 'left behind', whose way of life is being threatened by migrants and refugees. ISIS can also be similarly seen as a strong reaction against the cultural/influence of the West. As far as we know, the only disciples of T'Kuvma left are in L'rell and Voq. When Voq finally reawakens in Tyler and integrates, he'll symbolically be the child of two cultures. Maybe that's how this Klingon war ends for now. Yeah, I think under-realizing this stuff is personally the show's biggest shortcoming. As with a lot of Treks, I'd overlook a lot of the show's flaws if it were actually making a point about something. And it's really fertile ground to explore in a Trekkian way.
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Dec 23, 2017 11:00
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spincube posted:Do they celebrate Christmas on the Enterprise? :thinkingface: Captain Picard Day is celebration enough. All the good parties are probably on the Hood. Friends of DeSoto don't mess around.
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Dec 23, 2017 11:14
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Dec 23, 2017 12:22
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spincube posted:Do they celebrate Christmas on the Enterprise? :thinkingface: I remember the spirit of Santa turning up in one of those weird early TNG comics where everyone is thrusting about in dynamic poses. Fake Edit: Ah yeah, here. And with the Grinch, apparently. 
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Dec 23, 2017 12:33
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Big Mean Jerk posted:He’s had 30 years to read up on the failures of the Jedi Order and then experience it firsthand with his nephew. I love the guy, but Mark Hamill is wrong about Luke and The Last Jedi is a great movie that provides the kick in the pants the franchise needed. Unfortunately, bitter fans who didn’t get the toothless revelations they expected are going to tank the possibilities Rian Johnson gave the franchise and 9 will be another gutless risk-averse homage to the OT.
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Dec 23, 2017 12:40
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HIJK posted:Are you trying to say resuscitating elderly brands isn't a good artistic decision????????????? No, it's definitely good and interesting to recycle the same properties over and over with as little substantial variation (but as many new coats of paint) as possible for decades on end, gotta maximize those profits baby!
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Dec 23, 2017 12:43
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Nessus posted:Personally, I wanted porgs. Porgs are far better than tribbles.
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Dec 23, 2017 13:09
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spincube posted:Do they celebrate Christmas on the Enterprise? :thinkingface: They do! In the episode where Kirk gets brainwashed by mad scientist looking to cure wrongthink, there’s a running gag/side plot about how Kirk thinks he behaved a bit inappropriately towards Dr Noel at the Enterprise science Christmas party.
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Dec 23, 2017 13:54
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Big Mean Jerk posted:He’s had 30 years to read up on the failures of the Jedi Order and then experience it firsthand with his nephew. I love the guy, but Mark Hamill is wrong about Luke and The Last Jedi is a great movie that provides the kick in the pants the franchise needed. Agree 100%
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Dec 23, 2017 16:11
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Big Mean Jerk posted:He’s had 30 years to read up on the failures of the Jedi Order and then experience it firsthand with his nephew. I love the guy, but Mark Hamill is wrong about Luke and The Last Jedi is a great movie that provides the kick in the pants the franchise needed. So basically you agree Luke has to be a different person. Does Luke strike you as someone who feels limited by the advice of his elders or someone who would retreat in the face of a moral test? Who would leave his sister out to dry? That's certainly not in his character as of RotJ. Luke needs to withdraw from the world for 30 years in order for the plot to happen. This isn't even a Ryan Johnson choice, btw this was established last movie. Whether the last Jedi is a good movie or not, it is a bad sequel, like pretty much ever movie that has an aging main character show up to pass the franchise on to the new guys. Generations, Blade Runner 2, both new Star Wars, Indiana Jones and the Curse of the Hollywood Franchise, they're all at their worst with a graying old man indelicately shoehorned into the story. Also lol at thinking Mark Hamill is wrong about Luke Skywalker's characterization drat dude.
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Dec 23, 2017 17:12
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Tighclops posted:my main impression of STD is of a show too ashamed of it's roots to appeal to nostalgia or familiarity effectively and too ineptly put together to grow anywhere compelling Well stated. I haven't seen any of Discovery, but very little that I've read or seen here is prompting me to change my mind. As someone who got into Star Trek through TOS, I don't appreciate how the writers of Discovery seem to want TOS to disappear down the memory hole, and the show itself seems too...CW-like for me. I don't necessarily have anything CW shows, but they all look and sound alike to me, and I'm not a huge fan of that particular...style, I guess. I'd rather just stick with classic Trek, like TOS/TNG/DS9. Anything after that generally isn't that good, in my opinion.
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Dec 23, 2017 17:18
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Y'all heard it here, people don't change over decades, even when everything they built implodes.
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Dec 23, 2017 17:19
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Arglebargle III posted:So basically you agree Luke has to be a different person. Does Luke strike you as someone who feels limited by the advice of his elders or someone who would retreat in the face of a moral test? Who would leave his sister out to dry? That's certainly not in his character as of RotJ. He only needs to be a "different person" if you subscribe to the idea that people can't change substantially over 20+ years (which include great trauma) and remain the "same" person. He took it upon himself to train new Jedi, a group that can apparently very easily fall to darkness and be a great force for evil. One of these pupils is the son of his best friend and his sister. He, at some point, suddenly realizes that his star pupil has fallen to darkness and, if we are to believe his version of events (which is the most charitable version), nearly executes him in his sleep - essentially cementing his fall to the dark side. That's going to gently caress a person up, not even getting into the fact that he can feel evil and poo poo in a way the audience can't. He wasn't some trained knight of balance and moral certitude, he got an extremely truncated set of lessons far too late in life (according to Jedi tradition). There were other legit ways it could have gone, for sure, but I don't think TLJ was problematic characterization given the events. Also, giving actors the final say on the characterization of the parts they play give us the last few TNG movies.
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Dec 23, 2017 17:36
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Arglebargle III posted:So basically you agree Luke has to be a different person. Does Luke strike you as someone who feels limited by the advice of his elders or someone who would retreat in the face of a moral test? Who would leave his sister out to dry? That's certainly not in his character as of RotJ. I am a different person at 27 than I was at, say, 14 because the events in the years since have shaped my personality and way of thinking. That’s how life and aging work and the same goes for Luke. You say Luke retreated from a moral test, but the reality is that he failed one. He knew from Yoda and Obi-Wan how the Jedi Order had failed as a whole and failed his family personally with the fall of Anakin. He knew this and he still insisted on creating his own Jedi Order and attempting to train his nephew because stubbornness and impulsivity have been two of Luke’s defining characteristics since day one. So when everything he built was literally burned to the ground at the hands of the nephew he personally failed, then yes, I do believe the Luke of the OT would have hosed off on a self-exile and left the galaxy to fend for itself. And this isn’t the first time he’s hosed off to do his own thing and left his friends when they needed him. He did it in Empire when he went to find Yoda instead of heading to the rendezvous, and he did it again in ROTJ when he left to confront Vader the night before they attacked the shield bunker.
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Dec 23, 2017 17:40
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I'm so tired of all these star wars
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Dec 23, 2017 17:51
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Tighclops posted:I'm so tired of all these star wars We can go back to discussing the pros and cons of funding a Jeb Patreon so that he can post slightly more screenshots if you'd like.
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Dec 23, 2017 18:35
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I dunno about Luke's characterization but what I do know is thisHIJK posted:Are you trying to say resuscitating elderly brands isn't a good artistic decision?????????????
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Dec 23, 2017 18:48
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Big Mean Jerk posted:We can go back to discussing the pros and cons of funding a Jeb Patreon so that he can post slightly more screenshots if you'd like. This is preferable to another star wars movie e: all these properties whose original owners are either dead or have long since made their fortunes and moved on need to be public domain, the problem is ultimately capitalism smash the rich etc etc;
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Dec 23, 2017 19:17
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Tighclops posted:This is preferable to another star wars movie Lol you care that other people enjoy things you can simply not pay to see
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Dec 23, 2017 19:18
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And you goons, you're all... astronauts... in some kind of... star war....
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Dec 23, 2017 19:20
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The Bloop posted:Lol you care that other people enjoy things you can simply not pay to see Honestly I probably would enjoy Star Wars on some level if it weren't for a lifetime of marketing going HEY KID YOU LIKE THIS DON'T YOU? THIS IS WHAT ALL THE OTHER KIDS LIKE WHY DON'T YOU JEDI TOO AAAAA Any mention of it now that I'm 30 just inspires an automatic "gently caress off" reaction that I can't shake and I won't apologize for that
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Dec 23, 2017 19:24
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Windows 98 posted:Ok Discovery isn’t so bad. It’s not amazing though. Yeah, this is where I am too. It's watchable. I... enjoy it? I kind of wish it was just some generic sci-fi show since that's what it feels like, but it's also not like I care about the franchise so much that it bothers me to have the "Star Trek" title attached to something like Discovery. I like it more now that the characters aren't being lovely to each other at every available opportunity. The spore drive is really, incredibly dumb, though. Especially since nothing would be different if they just went with an experimental jump drive and a brief, bog standard technobabble explanation.
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Dec 23, 2017 19:28
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https://propstore.com/product/star-trek-the-next-generation/uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-d-model-miniature-saucer/ Anyone want to lend me $7,000?
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Dec 23, 2017 19:31
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Windows 98 posted:https://propstore.com/product/star-trek-the-next-generation/uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-d-model-miniature-saucer/ Hahaha quote:The piece shows wear to the paint and fiberglass due to production use and age but remains overall in fair condition.
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Dec 23, 2017 19:41
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Tighclops posted:Honestly I probably would enjoy Star Wars on some level if it weren't for a lifetime of marketing going HEY KID YOU LIKE THIS DON'T YOU? THIS IS WHAT ALL THE OTHER KIDS LIKE WHY DON'T YOU JEDI TOO AAAAA It's funny what difference a few years can make. You would have been ten when the Special Editions hit and the Machine was turned up to "max" again, but when I was ten, the Zahn books hadn't come out and it was a 100% dead franchise, especially compared to the juggernaut that was Star Trek's 25th anniversary. Finding any mention of Star Wars was like stumbling across nerd gold - I actually clipped out cartoons or articles when I came across if they mentioned Star Wars. There were remnants of the 77-84 mania around, but it was pretty far from the public consciousness. The irony, of course, being that this is what saved Star Wars - West End Games getting the license super cheap (in 1987, during the ten year anniversary!) and building up the universe, which became the canon Zahn and the Lucasarts game teams were given to work from, which became huge hits and revitalized the franchise. The success of TNG probably helped, too, by putting SF in the public eye again.
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Dec 23, 2017 19:55
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Windows 98 posted:https://propstore.com/product/star-trek-the-next-generation/uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-d-model-miniature-saucer/ Just start a patreon. I'll throw you $5.
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Dec 23, 2017 19:59
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After The War posted:It's funny what difference a few years can make. You would have been ten when the Special Editions hit and the Machine was turned up to "max" again, but when I was ten, the Zahn books hadn't come out and it was a 100% dead franchise, especially compared to the juggernaut that was Star Trek's 25th anniversary. Finding any mention of Star Wars was like stumbling across nerd gold - I actually clipped out cartoons or articles when I came across if they mentioned Star Wars. There were remnants of the 77-84 mania around, but it was pretty far from the public consciousness. I used to love the Lego space subthemes, then one year everything became loving Star Wars. It was like no matter where I turned I couldn't escape it bleeding into every little nook and cranny. I wanted a new super soaker, oh but wait the only ones we have in stock are queen amidalo's laser pistol, oh hey my buddy has a new game for his n64 ITS loving PODRACING its just a stupid hero's journey luke isn't even likable until the third film fuckkkkk FUUUCKkk
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Dec 23, 2017 20:04
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Tighclops posted:I used to love the Lego space subthemes, then one year everything became loving Star Wars. It was like no matter where I turned I couldn't escape it bleeding into every little nook and cranny. I wanted a new super soaker, oh but wait the only ones we have in stock are queen amidalo's laser pistol, oh hey my buddy has a new game for his n64 ITS loving PODRACING Star Wars pod racer is a genuinely good game though. Like F-Zero with more strategy.
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Dec 23, 2017 20:10
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