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Yeah hey, I'm gonna go and expose my ignorance here but... A superhero movie with a predominantly black cast and culture comes out. What is the expectation? 1. Should people look at it like just another movie, perhaps another bland by the numbers Marvel movie and shrug and move on after consuming it? Is this equal footing? Is that what's desired? 2. This is a landmark moment for black culture and the hope that something shifts in Hollywood? To what end and goal? Casting? Themes explored? Culture explored? Was the goal to get some kind of equal footing as white flicks/status? The goal is to match that? 3. Should these movies go in a different direction than everything else and make its own way? Explore its own ground without any reference or connection to white culture or some comparison or such? Would this be the goal? 4. What about the other movies before it that had black leads, cast, women leads, cast, etc. What about history? That it excites is good, but what is going on that this is the exciting/landmark one? Black Panther is one of my favorite heroes since Priest's run and I consider him to be a complete mature man and King, worthy of some one to look up to. He's not broken like a Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne. Although I suppose that it had trouble being made struck a chord, because he was a black hero and it did create the narrative, like women heroes for Wonder Woman, so there may have been an undercurrent of overcoming something. I'm also a brown man so most of the things I get are "lol terrorism. lol poor muslim dude being prejduiced against. lol asian funny brown man inept and silly chasing white women." but I'm not sure if I think of it as "Awesome, an all brown cast doing the same thing as white people treated the same way." Plus I have Bollywood at least. EDIT: Though Bollywood has its own tremendous bullshit. Gatts fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 18:01
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| # ? May 26, 2024 13:42 |
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:By comparison, Set It Off is so revolutionary it might as well star Assata Shakur (and it also made a hell of a lot of money). Girl's Trip is simply a return to something that was fairly commonplace 10 or 20 years ago. What are we talking about, exactly? Can you imagine someone talking about Drumline or Roll Bounce as if they were some watershed moment? What seems to have happened is that Hollywood got way whiter after the early 2000s but now we have PR agencies for the studios patting themselves on the back for allowing Chadwick Boseman to play every famous black man that's ever lived. Just absurd and ahistorical. So it really does come down to the fact that you have judged the movie before you’ve seen it and aren’t a fan of the genre. When a lot of black folks in Hollywood (and most definitely aware of the trends you’re talking about) are getting hype for this movie I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt and side with them, rather than assume they’re all bought out or desperate to settle for poo poo. I mean a lot of your points are even valid in terms of trends and needing to tear down white supremacy, etc. but most of this specific argument seems to be your general hatred and lack of faith in marvel movies. And if we’re going the it’s bad because a conglomerate helped make it route, I can’t help you there. It’s like saying Coco wasn’t a Good Thing for Mexicans and Mexican culture because b-but, can’t you see Disney funded it?
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Dec 24, 2017 18:38
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I admit that it is colored by the fact that people didn't even seem to blink at Disney acquiring Fox, yeah. Now we're talking about how a Pixar movie is important to Mexican culture? Dark times. In a hundred years you're gonna have people forcefully arguing that Toyotathon is and always has been an integral part of Christmas.
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Dec 24, 2017 18:53
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I admit that it is colored by the fact that people didn't even seem to blink at Disney acquiring Fox, yeah. Now we're talking about how a Pixar movie is important to Mexican culture? Dark times. In a hundred years you're gonna have people forcefully arguing that Toyotathon is and always has been an integral part of Christmas. Okay so the line in the sand is really drawn there, got it. Edit: http://remezcla.com/lists/film/latino-film-critics-review-pixar-coco/ Stooges. All of them! Aladdin fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 19:00
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coco and black panther are both disney-backed kid's movies with a largely PoC cast but strangely only one is getting propped up as this big revolution again, it's just wonder woman redux: there are plenty of female-led movies out there and an increasing number of female-led action movies but PR and nerd solipsism dictates that no this is the movie that is bursting open doors and changing everything and then it actually comes out and it's a tepid yawn of a film
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Dec 24, 2017 19:04
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I guess what I don't understand is how that's even controversial, it's not like Disney is some unknown entity. edit: oof quote:As a Mexican-Salvadoran-American who grew up on a steady diet of Hollywood Anglo films and the “Hispanic Hollywood” movies of the eighties (La Bamba, Born in East LA, Stand and Deliver), there may never be a more important production than Pixar’s Coco. It’s a blissful hug of acceptance in a time when the very existence of Latinos in this country is criminalized. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 19:07
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I guess what I don't understand is how that's even controversial, it's not like Disney is some unknown entity. "Trump bad, so coco must be good" It is a pretty good movie but being mexican-themed is just the top coat of paint, structurally its a pretty standard pixar movie
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Dec 24, 2017 19:13
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Farg posted:I did a double take at "after earth is really good" but then remembered what subforum this is K. Waste posted:Movie fight!
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Dec 24, 2017 19:28
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As Mexican born, raised and living in Mexico. I have to say I find all the praise Coco is receiving to be overblown. Is not really an accurate depiction of the mexican society (unless people thinks we're still living like we did back in the 30s), it takes so many liberties with the lore of Day of Dead to be an accurate depiction and the story itself is nothing truly revolutionary nor something that can't be told without the mexican backdrop. People are also quick to forget the whole debacle of Disney having the gall to try and trademark the loving Holiday as theirs, the lack of actual mexicans within the staff beyond the cast for the dub (and that is something that we do for nearly every movie now so isn't a huge plus either). In general it just seems that people just got swept by the very effective ad campaign Disney bombarded us for weeks leading to the film's release than actual achievements from the film.
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Dec 24, 2017 19:29
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:As Mexican born, raised and living in Mexico. I have to say I find all the praise Coco is receiving to be overblown. Is not really an accurate depiction of the mexican society (unless people thinks we're still living like we did back in the 30s), it takes so many liberties with the lore of Day of Dead to be an accurate depiction and the story itself is nothing truly revolutionary nor something that can't be told without the mexican backdrop. It's almost like Disney is all about the image they project and nothing about whatever substance they may or may not have. I loving loath Disney as a company. I really do. Rarely do they make a Bad Movie like Sony, but they often do something worse. They make a Nothing Movie. They make a movie that pays lip service to the idea of progression or whatever, if they even go that far, but instead it's just a safe bland edges filed off piece of fluff with nothing much to say or do. Hunchback of Notre Dame is likely the last movie they actually tried with and you can see, QUITE vividly, how scared they were and how much they tried to pull back on it
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Dec 24, 2017 19:40
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If there was a cut of Hunchback without the gargoyles i'd watch it
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Dec 24, 2017 19:43
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It is a movie that is pathologically afraid of itself. It's kind of fascinating.
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Dec 24, 2017 19:48
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It's going to mean a lot more to a 12 year old with a camera shooting something on a street in Mexico City to remind him of how the Three Amigos have managed to achieve massive success making whatever the hell they feel like making (while pulling up DPs like Emmanuel Lubezki and Guillermo Navarro, and actors like Gael Garcia Bernal and Diego Luna and the loaded loving cast and crew of Cuaron's upcoming Roma along the way) than to tell them "you can get a movie made with Disney if you're willing to let your cultural heritage be used as cheap exoticism over a standard, lily-white narrative structure". It's like telling a young black kid with a gift for rhyming that he should be aiming to be MC Hammer and not Kendrick Lamar.
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Dec 24, 2017 19:51
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Aladdin posted:Alright, so we’re gonna take the cynical “all superhero movies are poo poo for sheeple, and nothing ever changes” route, so this argument was never going to get anywhere. We need more people like you to convince the black community that any hope or excitement they’ll ever have is a lie. As a member of the black community, I'd like what is ostensibly representing us to actually be good outside of aesthetic. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I guess what I don't understand is how that's even controversial, it's not like Disney is some unknown entity. Book of Life came out like a couple years ago and is actually produced mainly by the people representing it, unlike coco who has a Latino writer for cred much like Taika on moana, these kind of comments are bizarre.
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Dec 24, 2017 19:55
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Burkion posted:It's almost like Disney is all about the image they project and nothing about whatever substance they may or may not have. Yeah, Coco it feels like they just filled a checklist with all the needed elements to do a Good feeling film. It does tug at your heartstrings but it never tries to do anything more. The Cameo posted:It's going to mean a lot more to a 12 year old with a camera shooting something on a street in Mexico City to remind him of how the Three Amigos have managed to achieve massive success making whatever the hell they feel like making (while pulling up DPs like Emmanuel Lubezki and Guillermo Navarro, and actors like Gael Garcia Bernal and Diego Luna and the loaded loving cast and crew of Cuaron's upcoming Roma along the way) than to tell them "you can get a movie made with Disney if you're willing to let your cultural heritage be used as cheap exoticism over a standard, lily-white narrative structure". That is a good way to put it and to be honest, I think that Book of Life is the film that should've received the praise Coco is getting when it comes to be a breakthrough for Mexican representation in the US. They got actual mexican staff there and making it a period piece give them enough leeway to take liberties with the setting while also remain sincere on their depiction.
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Dec 24, 2017 19:57
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Coco lost a lot of balls when it was revealed that Ernesto De La Cruz was revealed not to be Miguel's great great grandfather after all.
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Dec 24, 2017 20:03
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I just started Spider-Man Homecoming. You guys weren't kidding about Michael Keaton being the unironic hero. And since when was 2012 eight years ago?
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Dec 24, 2017 20:29
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Speaking of Spider-Man Homecoming can someone explain the timeline of where Stark is from the Airport battle to the start of the movie when he is taking Peter home? It doesn't work for him to be doing the last part of Civil War and the first part of Homecoming at the same time.
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Dec 24, 2017 20:34
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Brother Entropy posted:coco and black panther are both disney-backed kid's movies with a largely PoC cast but strangely only one is getting propped up as this big revolution I guess all those women and girls that made WW such a success were... what? Wrong about their own sense of empowerment and representation? Idiot dupes for the corporate profit gristmill? Traitors to the cause?  "PR and nerd solipsism" just lol at this narrative that THOSE DASTARDLY NERDS pulled the wool over everyones' eyes
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Dec 24, 2017 22:58
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McSpanky posted:I guess all those women and girls that made WW such a success were... what? Wrong about their own sense of empowerment and representation? Idiot dupes for the corporate profit gristmill? Traitors to the cause? "they just have really lovely taste in movies" is an equally valid explanation
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Dec 24, 2017 23:15
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I like how minorities becoming close to, if not as or more profitable as white men is not empowering because capitalism is bad.
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Dec 24, 2017 23:19
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Hire more woman guards!
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Dec 24, 2017 23:21
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Nasgate posted:I like how minorities becoming close to, if not as or more profitable as white men is not empowering because capitalism is bad. Being "empowered" doesn't put food on the table nor does it pay the rent. It doesn't help you raise the kids or look after elderly relatives. It doesn't protect you from assault, verbal or physical. It's just empty marketing speak. It's a shame the other female-led superhero movie this year, Ghost in the Shell, didn't get such a positive reception. Mira Killian was a far better role-model.
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Dec 24, 2017 23:28
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My wallpaper folder has pretty images too but it's still a bad movie starring will smiths kid
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Dec 24, 2017 23:36
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My perspective on a white gay dude on the wonder woman movie is that while she may not have been the first female heroine in movies, or even first superheroine, she still holds a special place in our culture. Superheroes do in general I'd argue. Kids read about these paragons of humanity that show us what we could be if we shed our neuroses and transcended our selfish desires, and Wonder Woman is the premiere female Superhero, the closest equivalent to Superman. She's, I think, a unique feminist icon, and I think seeing her on the screen in a well made movie means a lot for women. Yeah, the PR thing went overboard by calling it groundbreaking and revolutionary, and the movie itself was your standard fare superhero movie, but it still means something to all those young girls that went to see it. I can't help but feel the situation will be the same for black people and Black Panther. Calling this revolutionary and groundbreaking is PR spin gone wild yes, and the movie itself will no doubt be a competently done movie with the same tepid themes and ideas Disney always shits out, but it will still mean a lot for black kids to see him up there on the screen. Then again, I'm just a white dude, so what do I know.
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Dec 24, 2017 23:41
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McSpanky posted:I guess all those women and girls that made WW such a success were... what? Wrong about their own sense of empowerment and representation? Idiot dupes for the corporate profit gristmill? Traitors to the cause? People can feel personally empowered by something while it also does very little to actually help the group they represent in any tangible way. Women also aren’t a homogenous, singular entity. Some thought Wonder Woman was good for women and some didn’t think it did much at all for them. Which women get to represent their gender?
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Dec 24, 2017 23:44
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Mechafunkzilla posted:"they just have really lovely taste in movies" is an equally valid explanation Except not because WW was pretty good. Sassbot Alpha posted:the other female-led superhero movie this year, Ghost in the Shell Speaking of lovely taste in movies. McCloud posted:Then again, I'm just a white dude, so what do I know. Me too, but I'm taking my cues from what actually happened instead of trying to mansplain it away with defeatist revisionism. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 23:47
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McSpanky posted:Except not because WW was pretty good. 
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Dec 24, 2017 23:48
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Colossal was a better feminist superhero movie than Wonder Woman. And a better movie.
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Dec 25, 2017 00:12
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McSpanky posted:I guess all those women and girls that made WW such a success were... what? Wrong about their own sense of empowerment and representation? Idiot dupes for the corporate profit gristmill? Traitors to the cause? Would you extend this same indignant defense to the women and girls that helped make recent superhero blockbusters starring Harley Quinn, Katniss Everdeen, and Bella Swan the runaway successes that they were? I'm honestly not trying to do any gotcha stuff here, I just think it'd legitimately rule if male feminist allies were also dedicated to protecting the honor of Team Edward. You can make this happen my guy
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Dec 25, 2017 00:17
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Nasgate posted:I like how minorities becoming close to, if not as or more profitable as white men is not empowering because capitalism is bad. Finish your thought there.
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Dec 25, 2017 00:22
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Colossal was a better feminist superhero movie than Wonder Woman. And a better movie. Hell yeah!
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Dec 25, 2017 00:36
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Jenny Angel posted:Would you extend this same indignant defense to the women and girls that helped make recent superhero blockbusters starring Harley Quinn, Katniss Everdeen, and Bella Swan the runaway successes that they were? I'm honestly not trying to do any gotcha stuff here, I just think it'd legitimately rule if male feminist allies were also dedicated to protecting the honor of Team Edward. You can make this happen my guy Edward was a brainwashing rapist. Team Jacob are the feminist allies.
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Dec 25, 2017 00:36
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It's really important for autistic children to see Ben Affleck assassinating people to know that they, too, can dream. Oh, is it bad all of a sudden that, in this day and age, just by checking their email, everyone can save up to three thousand dollars on a used or pre-owned Mazda?
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Dec 25, 2017 00:40
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The Accountant owns a ton, are they still working on a sequel?
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Dec 25, 2017 00:47
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Brother Entropy posted:coco and black panther are both disney-backed kid's movies with a largely PoC cast but strangely only one is getting propped up as this big revolution Coco has been a huge thing in hispanic media and the like and AFAIK is the top grossing animated movie in Mexican history. Twitter is full of hispanic ppl exvited about it. Your experience is not determinative of what it means for other ppl.
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Dec 25, 2017 00:54
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got any sevens posted:The Accountant owns a ton, are they still working on a sequel? Yeah but I don't think it's the same director. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Dec 25, 2017 |
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Dec 25, 2017 01:06
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got any sevens posted:The Accountant owns a ton, are they still working on a sequel? Yes EDIT: oops afflec dropped out of starring EDIT2: nvm hes back but not directing EDIT3: nvm he says he is back if the script is good and will co direct EDIT4: nvm
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Dec 25, 2017 01:14
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bring back old gbs posted:Yes Look he's just a mess right now.
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Dec 25, 2017 01:17
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Hey guys...I’m going to do this. Kylo Ren is what happens if Pa Kent falters when raising Clark. If makes one singular massive misstep succumbing to fear like Luke, it’s over.
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Dec 25, 2017 01:34
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