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HEY NONG MAN posted:Uh that's why we have all these fires now I thought. Well yeah. If the state were turned into end-to-end dry desert than power companies wouldnt be able to start wildfires and the problem would be solved! http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-utility-wildfires-20171017-story.html quote:Power lines and electrical equipment are a leading cause of California wildfires http://www.marinij.com/article/NO/20171021/NEWS/171029951 quote:PG&E helped stall effort to map risky power lines prone to wildfires Southern California Edison is already wringing their hands about their stock plummeting because of the Ventura fires. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-edison-stock-fires-20171207-story.html quote:As wildfires spread through the Southland this week, Southern California Edison’s parent company saw its stock price plummet on investors’ fears that the utility could be forced to pay costs related to the blazes. So basically clearcutting old complicated ecosystems is not necessarily the needed step to stop "wild" fires when most of them are not "wild" in the sense that people imply.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 05:21 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 13:09 |
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Libs love talking about the importance of contributing to society, but when a bunch of righties see an industry dry up it's Uhaul + bootstraps time.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 05:26 |
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What's a lib
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 05:29 |
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cheetah7071 posted:Well it's complicated and there's multiple causes but putting out every fire leads to fuel accumulation which means that the next time lightning strikes during mega fire conditions, the spark has the fuel it needs to actually form that mega fire. There's multiple ways to attempt to combat this and thinning is one and has the nice side effect of allowing you to sell the lumber. The issue isn't thinning but clear-cutting, ultimately thinning probably isn't profitable for most companies to be interested. Also, as far as the gorge fire goes, most of the land up there was parkland and clear-cutting wouldn't have gone over well. Also, another the big issue with thinning isn't losing the trees but the type of roads and the erosion they would cause in order to access those trees which probably means completely devastating the area anyway. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Dec 26, 2017 |
# ? Dec 26, 2017 05:37 |
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That is also why the timber industry dried up here. We have plenty of trees but the cheapest, easiest ones to log are already clearcut and will take a while to grow back. With the competition from Canadian softwoods that the Canadian government changes basically nothing to log off, it has been a losing proposition to log what is left that is not protected. With the new 20% tariff on Canadian wood, we may see a little action now, but I am not sure any mills will be re-opening. I don't think that we should log any more pre-columbian forrest, but second and third growth should be open for logging as long as it isn't just a bunch of big clear cuts and is properly buffer to provide through-ways for wildlife. A balance needs to be struck where humans can benefit economically from the resource but we don't allow Georgia Pacific or Boise Cascade to just destroy everything.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 05:58 |
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Tree farming got big in the south north Florida and south Georgia and alot moved down there think of Rayonier as an example. Just grow em in lines on flat land.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 06:03 |
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Even if logging came back, there would be almost no jobs. Robots and machines cut trees now days.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 06:08 |
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I went to one of thier shareholder meetings once, Jeb! was there.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 06:09 |
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Peachfart posted:Even if logging came back, there would be almost no jobs. Robots and machines cut trees now days. Not if we make them horse log individual trees from the center of roadless forrests. (I wish.)
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 06:40 |
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Javid posted:Counterpoint: "your jobs are gone and never coming back" appeals to nobody. And there is nothing that will change this, regardless of politics. porkface posted:Libs love talking about the importance of contributing to society, but when a bunch of righties see an industry dry up it's Uhaul + bootstraps time. I mean, we're talking about mincome, which is hardly "bootstrap your way up." But like Peachfarts pointed out, even if we wanted to clear cut every tree in the Oregon wilderness (which, y'know, probably isn't a great idea), it wouldn't create all that many jobs due to automation. So, if people need to be "given something to do," aside from presumably having their rent/food paid for with a mincome, what you're talking about there is a fundamental reworking of the nature of our capitalist society; either some sort of full employment from the government, or doing away with the 40-hour work week, in favor of something that requires substantially more employees (like a 25-hour work week). Either of which seems to me to be roughly as possible as "your jobs are gone and never coming back" line. And what industry are we transitioning them to that they can work from rural Oregon? Or is "just casually uproot your entire family and move" still the line we're giving them? Alternatively, adopting the Trump strategy of straight-up lying to them seems effective. "All of your logging jobs are coming back, this time with hookers, and blackjack!"
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 08:05 |
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Thanatosian posted:I mean, we're talking about mincome, which is hardly "bootstrap your way up." But like Peachfarts pointed out, even if we wanted to clear cut every tree in the Oregon wilderness (which, y'know, probably isn't a great idea), it wouldn't create all that many jobs due to automation. Fair, I just think there should have been muuuuch greater investment in retraining and a marketing campaign to raise awareness of it. I think Obama did a lot of great things, but kind of petered out when it came to investment in retraining. Maybe there's only so much political capital that can be spent in 2 terms. Or maybe he got stung by the failure of his investment in solar. But it's why so many people felt disenfranchised, and Libs online and in the media weren't showing enough sympathy or drive to help.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 08:09 |
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porkface posted:Fair, I just think there should have been muuuuch greater investment in retraining and a marketing campaign to raise awareness of it. What are you going to train people in distant rural suburbs to even do? It isn't like there is a desperate need for computer programmers in their town of 2000 people.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 08:20 |
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Not all remote jobs need to be programming. There are companies that will create virtual call centers in small towns, provided they decide to not go to India / Philippines for that kind of labor. That's one example. There's other things you could do. I mean, the ideal answer is reworking the fundamental capitalist idea that everyone needs to work 40 hours, but that won't happen overnight. In the meantime a stopgap needs to be in place while we try to raise the social safety net at the same time.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 08:49 |
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Javid posted:E E: a real solution would be like, to actually pay for the above stuff. Not some means-tested reimbursement six months down the line. Straight up pay people's expenses to transition to a new, gainful location.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 16:08 |
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I think it's a mix of leaving town and investing in jobs that can either fit in small town USA or be done remotely. And you can't catch everyone, but there needs to be a program that folks in these places can turn for real retraining as industries dry up so it's not such a complete shock to the system. It's not even that every small town should survive. But the people need somewhere to turn without having to fund retraining entirely on their own. It's just like unemployment, only with significant investment in retraining. It not only would help individuals and families, but it would be good for the economy if there wasn't such a "figure it out yourself" attitude from society.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 18:53 |
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seiferguy posted:Not all remote jobs need to be programming. There are companies that will create virtual call centers in small towns, provided they decide to not go to India / Philippines for that kind of labor. That's one example. There's other things you could do. This is big in Utah, they target stay at home mothers. It's seems like it works pretty well when they give them flexibility.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 19:08 |
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True. My buddy who is habitually unemployed worked a call center in Utah to help people navigate the ACA. Something tells me that is a job anymore, though.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 19:30 |
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Several airlines and a couple of telecoms still doing it. Utah really aggressively goes after it.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 19:46 |
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There's only one thing that can revitalize rural Oregon, http://www.pamplinmedia.com/mop/157-news/382122-270193-taco-bell-to-spice-up-molalla
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 20:16 |
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Mission Accomplished
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 21:38 |
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Peachfart posted:What are you going to train people in distant rural suburbs to even do? It isn't like there is a desperate need for computer programmers in their town of 2000 people. Also I need to point out that even when folks get “the correct training”, they’re still hosed getting hired due to poo poo like age discrimination and “culture fit”.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 22:05 |
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Solkanar512 posted:Also I need to point out that even when folks get “the correct training”, they’re still hosed getting hired due to poo poo like age discrimination and “culture fit”. They need to follow the strategies used by the trades, use internships/apprenticeships to give people a foot in the door. I'm a big fan of ADA because they use this model, though I imagine it could work for any industry.
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 23:18 |
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Solkanar512 posted:Also I need to point out that even when folks get “the correct training”, they’re still hosed getting hired due to poo poo like age discrimination and “culture fit”. Good thing we outlawed those things!
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# ? Dec 26, 2017 23:24 |
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ElCondemn posted:They need to follow the strategies used by the trades, use internships/apprenticeships to give people a foot in the door. I'm a big fan of ADA because they use this model, though I imagine it could work for any industry. Maybe your industry could just quit assuming that the only good candidates are 30 yr old white men?
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# ? Dec 27, 2017 16:47 |
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ElCondemn posted:They need to follow the strategies used by the trades, use internships/apprenticeships to give people a foot in the door. I'm a big fan of ADA because they use this model, though I imagine it could work for any industry. There are some good things about apprenticeship programs - like making employers assume some of the cost and risk of training an employee in their specialized field - but it won't solve discriminatory hiring practices. It just puts another gateway in place, and if there's racist bias there (like there is in a lot of trade unions, unfortunately) then people who are a bad "culture fit" won't ever get in to the apprenticeship program.
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# ? Dec 27, 2017 17:09 |
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Solkanar512 posted:Maybe your industry could just quit assuming that the only good candidates are 30 yr old white men? Oh boy if I were in charge we would be more diverse but man there's just nothing I can do about it, sorry.
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# ? Dec 27, 2017 18:01 |
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porkface posted:Oh boy if I were in charge we would be more diverse but man there's just nothing I can do about it, sorry. Programs like ADA are designed to combat this exact problem. I've been working to introduce more companies to their program and others like it, not sure what else I can do other than promote diversity (especially women and people of color like myself) through hiring reform in the city I live. Not that I have much say but I am part of the hiring cycle so it's the best I can do.
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# ? Dec 27, 2017 19:00 |
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Turns out we don't have to spend any money on infrastructure, https://twitter.com/OregonGovBrown/status/946431020558991361
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# ? Dec 28, 2017 18:31 |
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anthonypants posted:Turns out we don't have to spend any money on infrastructure, https://twitter.com/OregonGovBrown/status/946431020558991361 She is the most tone deaf of idiots.
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# ? Dec 28, 2017 18:38 |
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Oregon: the best of the worst.
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# ? Dec 28, 2017 18:50 |
We do have the smoothest interstate road surfaces. A lot of other states just don't give a gently caress and their highways look a munitions testing range. Doesn't mean we're not deficient in other ways.
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# ? Dec 28, 2017 18:58 |
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The drive over Hood down to Bend is pretty smooth sailing, however a trip up 82nd avenue risks trashing your suspension and blowing out a tire, so where you are in the state probably colors things. #3 in transportation sounds impossible - I wonder what their methodology is. Doing great!
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# ? Dec 28, 2017 19:22 |
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#36 in crime what the hell
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# ? Dec 28, 2017 19:27 |
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Before you laugh at the education ranking I encourage you to remember the deep south and the midwest exist.
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# ? Dec 28, 2017 19:28 |
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I have a hard time believing that 95% of the population in Washington has > 100mbps internet connections now, let alone in 2014.
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# ? Dec 28, 2017 19:33 |
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The Unlife Aquatic posted:Before you laugh at the education ranking I encourage you to remember the deep south and the midwest exist.
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# ? Dec 28, 2017 19:39 |
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tk posted:I have a hard time believing that 95% of the population in Washington has > 100mbps internet connections now, let alone in 2014. Is that "could have 100mbps+ if money were no object"? As in you could have it should you elect to build a fiber line to your home?
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# ? Dec 28, 2017 19:51 |
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JohnnySavs posted:Is that "could have 100mbps+ if money were no object"? As in you could have it should you elect to build a fiber line to your home?
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# ? Dec 28, 2017 19:57 |
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I don't buy the number for education. We are nearly the worst in the country for high school graduation rates.
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# ? Dec 28, 2017 20:04 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 13:09 |
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therobit posted:I don't buy the number for education. We are nearly the worst in the country for high school graduation rates. We also have some of the largest class sizes in the country (almost certainly the two are linked). Maybe it is simply from test scores where Oregon is usually fairly middling, but there are plenty of ways to game those statistics. Also, parts of the 26 and the 205 are pretty much gravel at this point, and congestion is very clearly out of control (26/217/405/5/84 etc are jammed on weekdays).
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# ? Dec 28, 2017 20:14 |