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Karl Barks posted:i've mentioned it in this thread before, the 3 trotsky people are on our steering committee and tried to convince us to not incorporate, and to instead open up a book store or newspaper front group to embezzle money. which is the insanely stupid, and led me to believe the entryist stuff i read about might actually be true yeah and fair dues, I recognize there are plenty of groups like world socialist web site which I guess are trotskyist and continuously publish pieces on how roman polasnki is innocent and the lacrosse player that raped that woman didnt deserve all the media attention  like there are actual orgs and individuals that its dangerous to ignore and not come out openly and say "these people are not us and they are bad" I guess its just a trend I see where people, usually online, just say like "gently caress tankies" or "lol maoists" or whatever and it just breeds sectarianism and leads to more infighting. its one thing if youre criticizing an org for giving cover to pedophiles and engaging in sexual assault, its another to mock them cause you think they had an awkward convention or event or something
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Dec 27, 2017 17:59
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https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/946034626123923456
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Dec 27, 2017 18:00
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GalacticAcid posted:The tail light thing is a good program There are chapters moving on that: https://twitter.com/SuffolkDSA/status/939827641347080192 GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 18:00
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Oh how about that! I was just texting my friend about this the other day after a relative’s death from heroin. I am glad to learn it is in the works.
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Dec 27, 2017 18:18
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That Frost article is really funny, but she defines "tankie" like liberals do: "Soviet apologist" without further qualifiers and says "tankies" don't help advance socialism. Overlooking, say, Lenin.R. Guyovich posted:a big problem in left recruitment is that there's so much preemptive surrendering of rhetorical ground you look like a dissembling coward to people who haven't even voiced any doubts platzapS fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 18:18
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apropos to nothing posted:I hear what you're saying and yeah, its not about one person or group of people coming in and "organizing" people. workers have to organize themselves and the working class is always the subject of organizing, not the object. that being said, its difficult to organize and educate without help from those who have been there before. again, planning events can be boring sometimes but it's absolutely necessary for them to be successfull. anecdotally, I've seen socialist orgs in our area that have come together quickly, helped form up a union and lead a strike, only to not adequately do the boring planning and the strike failed because they didnt have enough in a strike fund, the business shut down, all the workers lost their job, and the org fell apart because people left or blamed each other for the failure. you absolutely have to lay the groundwork for the exciting stuff to work and translate into wins. I think it's a habit of people on the left to look back at the last 20-30 years and see the tactics and strategy used by people as a failure because the left was so miniscule, but I think it's also important to step back and realize that the current level of activity and organization that's occurring right now wouldn't necessarily be happening if they hadn't been doing the work they did during that time. I've learned a lot from activists and organizers who are older than me and were around for much leaner times. You do good work and I do nothing political. I'm just a worker who sees these small efforts with small numbers of socialists and who knows that we can do better because I can see the frustration with our situation in life (my coworkers dream of being rich or running their own businesses to escape wage slavery, our lives are ruled by our work and the oppression is palpable) and the inability to imagine a way out for everyone. While doing good work in the community is great, people need to hear a message of liberation and see a path to that liberation. If the foreseeable future you're offering is typical political organizing work then that isn't there.
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Dec 27, 2017 18:40
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I'm jealous of anyone whose local DSA has insane trotskyites pushing the ol' bookstore routine; mine is mostly democrats whose leftism does not extend far beyond meme format
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Dec 27, 2017 19:21
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remind the Trotskyites that no one, let alone yourself, will ever read a goddamn book
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Dec 27, 2017 19:26
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the dismissal of learning and research from a lot of liberal DSA types disgusts me, tbh
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Dec 27, 2017 19:28
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walgreenslatino posted:I'm jealous of anyone whose local DSA has insane trotskyites pushing the ol' bookstore routine; mine is mostly democrats whose leftism does not extend far beyond meme format lol trust me that those democrats will be easier to work with and educate on socialism
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Dec 27, 2017 19:41
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Karl Barks posted:i want a shirt that says "got juche?" 
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Dec 27, 2017 20:05
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there was an article in the guardian back before the 2010 world cup about the North Korean team and they stopped to use the toilets somewhere in switzerland and had to pay 20c or whatever to use them and one of the footballers commented "So this is capitalism" and i can't find it ffs
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Dec 27, 2017 20:10
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apropos to nothing posted:yeah and fair dues, I recognize there are plenty of groups like world socialist web site which I guess are trotskyist and continuously publish pieces on how roman polasnki is innocent and the lacrosse player that raped that woman didnt deserve all the media attention But for the record, gently caress tankies and lol maoists.
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Dec 27, 2017 20:12
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Jose posted:there was an article in the guardian back before the 2010 world cup about the North Korean team and they stopped to use the toilets somewhere in switzerland and had to pay 20c or whatever to use them and one of the footballers commented "So this is capitalism" and i can't find it ffs The first time I had to pay to piss was in Israel, fwiw
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Dec 27, 2017 20:24
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Jeb! Repetition posted:But for the record, gently caress tankies and lol maoists. shoo, fly
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Dec 27, 2017 20:25
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yeah I'm not trying to be a spoil sport and ruin everyones fun, its just a lot of people it seems increasingly are being radicalized online and in joke/meme pages and groups and stuff. as a result, I feel like there is kind of a responsibility to even in those kind of environments have a certain level of nuance and legit discussion. I've met a lot of people recently who I can tell have been radicalized in those environments cause they can tell you all about how this group or that group is revisionist or trash or too far left etc. and know all the jokes about icepicks and who killed rosa luxembourg but dont know the first thing about how to form a labor union or even how to run stack
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Dec 27, 2017 20:35
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GalacticAcid posted:the dismissal of learning and research from a lot of liberal DSA types disgusts me, tbh strongly agreed edit: apropos to nothing posted:I've met a lot of people recently who I can tell have been radicalized in those environments cause they can tell you all about how this group or that group is revisionist or trash or too far left etc. and know all the jokes about icepicks and who killed rosa luxembourg but dont know the first thing about how to form a labor union or even how to run stack same except they also don't know anything about the literature or theory, let alone anything practical. it's hard to have that nuance and discussion walgreenslatino fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 20:46
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walgreenslatino posted:strongly agreed yeah, I think theres also a significant minority of people of late who see being a socialist or a leftist as more of a cool identity than an actual set of beliefs and actions. like I see people post their political tendency or spectrum online all the time like "what am i? i think im an anarcho-syndicalist with hoxhaist tendencies" and i can just tell this person has never been a member of a party or org and never will be cause when people ask me or anyone i know irl we just say im a socialist
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Dec 27, 2017 21:00
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Anybody who knows what Hoxhaism is either spends too much time on the internet, or is old enough to remember the Cold War.
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Dec 27, 2017 21:02
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Some day the left will accept the reality that most people are dumb as hell and don't give a poo poo about anything outside their bubbles unless they're being manipulated into it like the right wing does to great success. If your opponent is willing to do anything to win, including embracing ideological enemies to use as tools, and you aren't, you're probably gonna lose.
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Dec 27, 2017 21:03
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Anybody who knows what Hoxhaism is either spends too much time on the internet, or is old enough to remember the Cold War. on that note, Posadism does make for a good punchline the Trump thread aligns Posadist for the most part 
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Dec 27, 2017 21:08
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apropos to nothing posted:yeah, I think theres also a significant minority of people of late who see being a socialist or a leftist as more of a cool identity than an actual set of beliefs and actions. like I see people post their political tendency or spectrum online all the time like "what am i? i think im an anarcho-syndicalist with hoxhaist tendencies" and i can just tell this person has never been a member of a party or org and never will be cause when people ask me or anyone i know irl we just say im a socialist tumblr socialism
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Dec 27, 2017 21:08
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im an OG socialist not like these posers
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Dec 27, 2017 21:14
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I was into Marxism before it was cool. *continues failing to organise the masses*
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Dec 27, 2017 21:15
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Im worried the international workingmens association stopped returning my letters a while ago
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Dec 27, 2017 21:20
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Wheeee posted:Some day the left will accept the reality that most people are dumb as hell and don't give a poo poo about anything outside their bubbles unless they're being manipulated into it like the right wing does to great success. Agreed. It's terrible, but I agree. This is even more important in the US where politics rarely ends up being anything more than bipolar and where it isn't, it's largely just unipolar, but by degrees. Converting Democrats to the cause and coopting their tools to enter into seats of power is far and away more effective than trying to forge a new seat to try and wrest control from the other two parties. This, of course, means having to sit next to a Third Way Lib and not punch them in the mouth as soon as they open it, by that's a small price to pay if it means being able to dominate the party. The reality of America's bipolar party nature is that pushing one party too far to one side without making reassurances to the center is that it opens up an opportunity for the other side to appeal to that disenfranchised and shore up their own base. The most recent example is the Right basically taking advantage of the weakening Labor environment in the US and then reframing those issues into something that working class white people probably already believe (racism/illegal immigration/globalism) and pointing to that as the problem.
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Dec 27, 2017 21:32
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Finicums Wake posted:here's a nice longform article http://www.oxfordamerican.org/item/1296-the-socialist-experiment Hey wanted to say thanks again for linking this. I read it during my time off, and forwarded it to a couple of left wing friends. Excellent read, I highly recommend it.
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Dec 27, 2017 21:40
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Anybody who knows what Hoxhaism is either spends too much time on the internet, or is old enough to remember the Cold War. enver hoxha's birthplace. so the hoxhaists are among us.
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Dec 27, 2017 21:44
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story i heard from an ex-trot: back when they were doing ISO stuff they'd head to the town square to sell newspapers. pro-trip: not a great recruitment tool if the headline on socialist worker is something like "Message to U.S. Imperialists: Hands off the DPRK!" yes, we all agree with the sentiment but you're gonna get punched.
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Dec 27, 2017 22:05
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my trot story is an ancient trembling trot dipshit granddad standing up on the middle of a momentum meeting to tell us all we should be following the example of bernie sanders for some reason. I did not buy his trot newspaper on the way out
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Dec 27, 2017 22:24
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GalacticAcid posted:lol just ran across this trots.txt letter to the LRB bemoaning Hobsbawm's failure to sell his party newspaper
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Dec 27, 2017 22:27
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R. Guyovich posted:sorry i forgot punching left is bad when democrats do it but extremely good when dsa socdems do it  Sorry Amber's large friend kicked you out of that panel, mate
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Dec 27, 2017 22:29
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Jizz Festival posted:It's fun. Sometimes people do things and read things for fun. Home Ex's is like Plankton from that one episode of SpongeBob, where SpongeBob tries to teach Plankton the concept of fun
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Dec 27, 2017 22:34
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let's just say the truth is in the middle and that Amber is overrated
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Dec 27, 2017 22:41
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Dreddout posted:Home Ex's is like Plankton from that one episode of SpongeBob, where SpongeBob tries to teach Plankton the concept of fun even Dr. McCaine likes to have fun!
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Dec 27, 2017 23:35
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:let's just say the truth is in the middle and that Amber is overrated She's middle tier Chapo, good tier cumboy
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Dec 28, 2017 00:12
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in 2018 i pledge to be nicer to ALL the tendencies namaste
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Dec 28, 2017 01:11
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Karl Barks posted:in 2018 i pledge to be nicer to ALL the tendencies namaste a good strategy for an undercover cop
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Dec 28, 2017 01:13
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Dreddout posted:She's middle tier Chapo, good tier cumboy Big Titty Amber
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Dec 28, 2017 01:13
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Dreddout posted:Home Ex's is like Plankton from that one episode of SpongeBob, where SpongeBob tries to teach Plankton the concept of fun *really long discussion of how snide online dismissals do nothing for no one* Aha, time to do that exact thing now.
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Dec 28, 2017 02:05
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