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H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Toast Museum posted:

That makes sense. I couldn't put my finger on a problem beyond aesthetics, but I don't want to make any more assumptions than I have to. Hypothetically, what if it were wired that way with the break-off fins removed?

This is where you hope there is a gfci.

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glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014


Huxley posted:

What is a normal amount of water for my pressure release valve pipe to be putting out? Is anything more than zero a problem? I'm currently losing about a quart every 2 days.

Do you mean the t&p valve on a water heater? You don't want any water coming out of that. Either it's a bad valve or your heater is malfunctioning.

Huxley
Oct 10, 2012



Grimey Drawer

glynnenstein posted:

Do you mean the t&p valve on a water heater? You don't want any water coming out of that. Either it's a bad valve or your heater is malfunctioning.

Thanks, just wanted to make sure I was outside normal before I called the man.

eddiewalker
Apr 28, 2004

Arrrr ye landlubber

Toast Museum posted:

That makes sense. I couldn't put my finger on a problem beyond aesthetics, but I don't want to make any more assumptions than I have to. Hypothetically, what if it were wired that way with the break-off fins removed?

The break offs are for situations like having one socket live all the time, and one controlled by a wall switch for a lamp.

In that case they’re treated like separate outlets.

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005


Huxley posted:

What is a normal amount of water for my pressure release valve pipe to be putting out? Is anything more than zero a problem? I'm currently losing about a quart every 2 days.
Either the valve is bad or the pressure regulator on the inlet line is bad. I don't know water heaters well, but on a furnace the pressure relief valve is an easy DIY, just shut off the furnace, shut off the water inlet, use the old valve to relieve pressure, screw a new one in, and swap the pipe coming off of it from the old one to the new one. If it's the pressure regulator on a furnace, you'll have to shut off a couple of valves and do some soldering.

From a quick search, it looks like a water heater is the same with the addition of draining it to below the level of the valve if it's on the side.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Huxley posted:

What is a normal amount of water for my pressure release valve pipe to be putting out? Is anything more than zero a problem? I'm currently losing about a quart every 2 days.

Are you talking about on a domestic hat water heater? If so and if you don't have excessive water pressure your PRV is broken and needs to be replaced.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Huxley posted:

What is a normal amount of water for my pressure release valve pipe to be putting out? Is anything more than zero a problem? I'm currently losing about a quart every 2 days.

Or potentially (but unlikely) your expansion tank is too small.

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran


Toast Museum posted:

That makes sense. I couldn't put my finger on a problem beyond aesthetics, but I don't want to make any more assumptions than I have to. Hypothetically, what if it were wired that way with the break-off fins removed?

Regardless, wire your new outlet up with pigtails and wire nuts. You don't want an outlet going bad to ruin all your downstream power.

Hypothetically, if it were wired the second way with the breakoff fins removed, then neither that outlet nor any outlet downstream would work. That outlet would test hot in one plug but show "open neutral" and test dead in the other plug.

babyeatingpsychopath fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Dec 27, 2017

Toast Museum
Dec 3, 2005

30% Iron Chef

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Regardless, wire your new outlet up with pigtails and wire nuts. You don't want an outlet going bad to ruin all your downstream power.

Hypothetically, if it were wired the second way with the breakoff fins removed, then neither that outlet nor any outlet downstream would work. That outlet would test hot in one plug but show "open neutral" and test dead in the other plug.

Cool, thanks for breaking that down. I put in a pigtail, and the new switch/outlet seems to be working as intended.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
My 1950's house has a sun room which is a cheap, probably kit-built aluminum-frame thing with single-paned windows and some cheap sheet material for siding, which was added around 20 years ago. I'm vaguely considering tearing it down and re-framing it with 2x4s, insulation, and at least double-paned windows, with the hope of being able to add it to the conditioned space of the house, and effective add a bunch of space to the adjacent kitchen.

Any recommendations for resources/materials I should check out to learn more about how to approach this kind of project? I'm comfortable with general construction work, including windows and roofs. The main unknowns for me would be a) how plausible it would be to have a conditioned space that has a bunch of windows in it, and/or how many windows it'd make sense to have in such a room. And b) how to handle the interface between the new room and the existing building, particularly around the roof area. The existing sun room has a very nearly flat roof, which results in a low ceiling; it also leaks, despite multiple efforts to find and fix seams. I'd like to have a more traditional roof with rafters, but that would create some kind of awkward valley with the roof of the rest of the house.

Top-down and side sketches of the sun room and rest of house, not to scale:



I guess the super-overbuilding approach would be to expand the second floor of the house by making its roof slope more shallow (we don't get snow here, so the roof is way steeper than it needs to be). That in turn would let me raise the height of the sun room roof and give it a more normal slope. That'd be a huge project though, and I don't really need more space on the second floor; I just want a sun room that I wouldn't feel guilty keeping warm in the winter.

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

:) EVERYWHERE :)
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!

:kheldragar:

Wiring chat -- I switched from an electric stove to a gas stove a couple years ago. With that, I've got a 220v breaker unused in my panel. I am planning on abandoning the wires going to the stove and running a new circuit to my garage to go to a 220v outlet so I can run a heater or welder. Heater is primary reason, welder is secondary, down-the-road device.

I took a look at the panel just now and saw something that I think is kinda sketchy -- the existing wiring for the stove is not 12/4, but two 12/3 wires, with one of them just using the black and white wires to go to the breaker (with the last 6" of the white wire painted black where it goes into the breaker). The other wire has the white and ground going to the common bus.

Is this an acceptable way to wire the circuit? It doesn't look right to me.

Anyway, I'm going to be using a 10/3 going to a 30A breaker, with the white going to the neutral/ground bus, is this correct?

Secondary question -- the first 25' of the run will be above finished ceiling. I know code says that it must be secured where possible, but I don't like having that amount of wire laying unsecured, so I was just going to do the whole run in 1/2" EMT, but that's a no-no with a jacketed cable... so should I go with an armored cable run and call it good?

meatpimp fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Dec 28, 2017

PremiumSupport
Aug 17, 2015

Seminal Flu posted:

Wiring chat -- I switched from an electric stove to a gas stove a couple years ago. With that, I've got a 220v breaker unused in my panel. I am planning on abandoning the wires going to the stove and running a new circuit to my garage to go to a 220v outlet so I can run a heater or welder. Heater is primary reason, welder is secondary, down-the-road device.

I took a look at the panel just now and saw something that I think is kinda sketchy -- the existing wiring for the stove is not 12/4, but two 12/3 wires, with one of them just using the black and white wires to go to the breaker (with the last 6" of the white wire painted black where it goes into the breaker). The other wire has the white and ground going to the common bus.

Is this an acceptable way to wire the circuit? It doesn't look right to me.

Anyway, I'm going to be using a 10/4 (or should it just be 10/3?) going to a 30A breaker.

Secondary question -- the first 25' of the run will be above finished ceiling. I know code says that it must be secured where possible, but I don't like having that amount of wire laying unsecured, so I was just going to do the whole run in 1/2" EMT, but that's a no-no with a jacketed cable... so should I go with an armored cable run and call it good?

For the first question I'm guessing that they're actually 12/2 wires (Black wire & White wire, bare ground is not counted) and that whomever wired the house didn't want to bother bringing out an additional spool of 12/3 (Black wire, White wire, Red Wire & bare ground) just to run a couple 240v circuits. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong about wiring it that way, even though it is a little odd. As long as your local code allows it they could have used a single 12/2 run, made both the Black and White wires hot and marked the ends of the white wire using a black marker. It sounds like the second wire is a Neutral run of some kind. Can you tell if/where the ground wire in the first (hot) set is connected?

For the second part, assuming that you're running standard Romex the NEC has no issues with you putting it in EMT conduit. Is there a local code stopping you?
The main issue with putting Romex in conduit is that you often need to step up the conduit size to maintain code compliance. 1/2" might not be large enough to be up to code with a 12/3 run, 12/2 is probably pushing the upper limits of what code allows for number and size of conductors in a 1/2" EMT.

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

:) EVERYWHERE :)
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!

:kheldragar:

PremiumSupport posted:

Can you tell if/where the ground wire in the first (hot) set is connected?
Hot set ground is clipped off. Neutral/ground set has black wire clipped off.

quote:

For the second part, assuming that you're running standard Romex the NEC has no issues with you putting it in EMT conduit. Is there a local code stopping you?
The main issue with putting Romex in conduit is that you often need to step up the conduit size to maintain code compliance. 1/2" might not be large enough to be up to code with a 12/3 run, 12/2 is probably pushing the upper limits of what code allows for number and size of conductors in a 1/2" EMT.

I thought Romex inside EMT was a no-no for heat?

I definitely want to use 10 gauge for a 30 amp breaker, right?

My primary concern is the wire, in whatever form, laying above the ceiling. Should I even be concerned with it? The options as I see them:

a) 10/3 Romex laying above the 25' enclosed ceiling section, stapled everywhere else.

b) 10/3 Armored cable laying above the 25' enclosed ceiling section, secured everywhere else.

c) 10/3 Romex inside 1/2" EMT (this was just a wild rear end guess to sizing, would this have any benefit at all over choice (b)?)

Is there any benefit in going with (b) over (a)?

meatpimp fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Dec 28, 2017

PremiumSupport
Aug 17, 2015
My understanding is that the requirement to have the cable secure is to prevent damage due to wear if the cable somehow starts moving in the space. Given that, option a) would certainly violate code, but both b) and c) should be acceptable, though you may have to go up to 3/4" conduit for c).

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

:) EVERYWHERE :)
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!

:kheldragar:

PremiumSupport posted:

My understanding is that the requirement to have the cable secure is to prevent damage due to wear if the cable somehow starts moving in the space. Given that, option a) would certainly violate code, but both b) and c) should be acceptable, though you may have to go up to 3/4" conduit for c).

That sounds good to me. Looks like I can drop down to 10/2 armored and have all the bases covered. Thanks!

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.
I've got a forced hot air furnace, a Trane XR95. It's pretty new (3 years old, so installed about a year before I bought the house.)

There's no zones at all, 1 single thermostat in the "main floor" hallway (raised ranch, so main floor is basically the first floor, and half of the ground floor is finished, two room, the other half is unfinished basement.)

We have three rooms that don't see a lot of use. The spare bedroom and office upstairs, and the craft room downstairs. Does it make sense to close the registers in those rooms when we're not in there? I know it's hard to tell without detailed info on the unit (CFM, BTUs, etc...) but, generally, aren't furnaces sized appropriately so their return air amount will equal the amount the output? And with the registers being closed, some hot air still gets pushed through the ducts until it hits the closed register, potentially wasting it, and then maybe creating backpressure on the furnace and affecting how well it heats the rest of the house?

The office in particular gets VERY warm, since it's relatively small and has only 1 outside wall (vs the master bedroom and spare bedroom that are corner rooms.) So it almost feels like a waste of heat in that room. The craft room downstairs also gets pretty warm if the register is open because it's small, and being half below grade is well insulated.( I think?)

But if I close the register to the craft room, it gets VERY cold. Like...50's. Probably because of the wall it shares with the unfinished basement behind it (I think it has R-19 insulation, but it's only a 2x4 frame, so it might be stuffed in too much and is compressed.)

We keep the thermostat at 68 most of the time when we're home, but the craft room is probably upper 70's, and office mid 70's. The craft room is mostly below the living room, so I'm also wondering if keeping it heated helps maintain the living room at a better temp?

Edit: I'll post over in the HVAC thread, too.

DrBouvenstein fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Dec 28, 2017

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran


Seminal Flu posted:

Some questions.

It's sketchy to run a 240 (with neutral) that way, but it doesn't appear to be illegal per the 2014 code book (ch200). However, if there's a ground wire in the cable, it's required to be used, so that part is illegal, at least.

You can run type NM cable in an enclosed area without stapling it to anything. See the Code Ch334. You have to secure it where possible, but across the top of an inacessible ceiling space will be fine.

You're right that 30A needs #10 minimum, and possibly #8 depending on how far it is to the garage.

10/3(with ground) is going to require 3/4" EMT at a minimum, and I'd recommend 1". Pulling NM through EMT is a bitch. As far as heat goes, there's a bunch of math and stuff detailed in the code book about amapacity and whatnot, but you'll be fine for that 25'.

Head over to the library and take a look at the code book. It's pretty readable. Head over to the wiring thread if you've got any more questions. Most of us are electricians and use the code book instead of relying on "from what I understand" and "I think it's ok."

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002

Seminal Flu posted:

Wiring chat -- I switched from an electric stove to a gas stove a couple years ago. With that, I've got a 220v breaker unused in my panel. I am planning on abandoning the wires going to the stove and running a new circuit to my garage to go to a 220v outlet so I can run a heater or welder. Heater is primary reason, welder is secondary, down-the-road device.

I took a look at the panel just now and saw something that I think is kinda sketchy -- the existing wiring for the stove is not 12/4, but two 12/3 wires, with one of them just using the black and white wires to go to the breaker (with the last 6" of the white wire painted black where it goes into the breaker). The other wire has the white and ground going to the common bus.

Is this an acceptable way to wire the circuit? It doesn't look right to me.

Anyway, I'm going to be using a 10/3 going to a 30A breaker, with the white going to the neutral/ground bus, is this correct?

Secondary question -- the first 25' of the run will be above finished ceiling. I know code says that it must be secured where possible, but I don't like having that amount of wire laying unsecured, so I was just going to do the whole run in 1/2" EMT, but that's a no-no with a jacketed cable... so should I go with an armored cable run and call it good?

That's not 12/3. First off, 12 gauge is too thin for a range. If your breaker was 30A, then you should have a minimum of 10 gauge wire. As for the wire numbers in structural wiring, ground wires were never included in the numbering. Instead, they would add "with ground" on the end, and at this point, it's just assumed. So your wiring is most likely two runs of 10/2wG, or just 10/2. Note: ground wires for cords are included in numbering. As for looking right, taping white wire with black tape or painting it is actually the preferred way of repurposing a neutral wire to show that it's no longer being used as a neutral. As for why the installer ran 2 runs of 10/2 and not use 2 wires in it, my guess is that the installer didn't have enough 10/3 left on his truck and didn't feel like running to the store.

You can run jacketed cable in conduit, it's just a bitch to turn corners with unless the conduit is cartoonishly oversized.


Seminal Flu posted:

Hot set ground is clipped off. Neutral/ground set has black wire clipped off.


I thought Romex inside EMT was a no-no for heat?

I definitely want to use 10 gauge for a 30 amp breaker, right?

My primary concern is the wire, in whatever form, laying above the ceiling. Should I even be concerned with it? The options as I see them:

a) 10/3 Romex laying above the 25' enclosed ceiling section, stapled everywhere else.

b) 10/3 Armored cable laying above the 25' enclosed ceiling section, secured everywhere else.

c) 10/3 Romex inside 1/2" EMT (this was just a wild rear end guess to sizing, would this have any benefit at all over choice (b)?)

Is there any benefit in going with (b) over (a)?

Define "heat". Now there is code for running cable in plenums, which are places where air moves, like ducts and drop ceiling spaces if there's no dedicated cold air returns and just grates in place of some ceiling tiles. If this was a drop ceiling however, you could just move tiles and staple the cable up anyway.

Running cable through stud and joist cavities without any support is fine according to code, but I would still support it wherever I could. The real question is which way the joists run.

Where is this outlet going anyway? If this is going in a garage, maybe think of stepping up to a 50A circuit. 50A welders are better and it would be good future proofing for a car charger as well.

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Head over to the library and take a look at the code book. It's pretty readable. Head over to the wiring thread if you've got any more questions. Most of us are electricians and use the code book instead of relying on "from what I understand" and "I think it's ok."

Seminal Flu, the most recent code book is available online at the NFPA's website. You have to register to view it though and you can't print from it. Give them a fake address too, they will send you junk mail. Also, in situations where the code book fails and you have to rely on "I think it's OK", it's ultimately your local inspector's "OK" that matters.

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Dec 28, 2017

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

:) EVERYWHERE :)
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!

:kheldragar:

kid sinister posted:


Define "heat". Now there is code for running cable in plenums, which are places where air moves, like ducts and drop ceiling spaces if there's no dedicated cold air returns and just grates in place of some ceiling tiles. If this was a drop ceiling however, you could just move tiles and staple the cable up anyway.

Running cable through stud and joist cavities without any support is fine according to code, but I would still support it wherever I could. The real question is which way the joists run.

Where is this outlet going anyway? If this is going in a garage, maybe think of stepping up to a 50A circuit. 50A welders are better and it would be good future proofing for a car charger as well.


Seminal Flu, the most recent code book is available online at the NFPA's website. You have to register to view it though and you can't print from it. Give them a fake address too, they will send you junk mail. Also, in situations where the code book fails and you have to rely on "I think it's OK", it's ultimately your local inspector's "OK" that matters.
It's being run ~25' perpendicular to floor trusses (I can cradle it in the V of the trusses, away from any other wiring and ~3" above the drywall ceiling). Outlet is definitely going to a garage. I'm okay with 30A for now and changing later... the only part of the run that isn't purely simple is the area over the finished section. I'll take a look at the web site, especially for the run length, because going with 2 straight runs and a 90* turn in the middle is the easiest, but it'll be ~70' in length (edit: from the charts, it looks like I need to go to 8ga with that length). I could go 25' straight, then a 45* turn to go straight to the termination point, but I'd still be over 50' going that way.


babyeatingpsychopath posted:

It's sketchy to run a 240 (with neutral) that way, but it doesn't appear to be illegal per the 2014 code book (ch200). However, if there's a ground wire in the cable, it's required to be used, so that part is illegal, at least.

You can run type NM cable in an enclosed area without stapling it to anything. See the Code Ch334. You have to secure it where possible, but across the top of an inacessible ceiling space will be fine.

You're right that 30A needs #10 minimum, and possibly #8 depending on how far it is to the garage.

10/3(with ground) is going to require 3/4" EMT at a minimum, and I'd recommend 1". Pulling NM through EMT is a bitch. As far as heat goes, there's a bunch of math and stuff detailed in the code book about amapacity and whatnot, but you'll be fine for that 25'.

Head over to the library and take a look at the code book. It's pretty readable. Head over to the wiring thread if you've got any more questions. Most of us are electricians and use the code book instead of relying on "from what I understand" and "I think it's ok."

I'll take a look at the code book, then pop over the the web site, this was largely sounding ideas off the wall and totally helped me see what I need to do. I'll post after I have the details down. Thanks!

meatpimp fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Dec 28, 2017

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014


DrBouvenstein posted:

I've got a forced hot air furnace, a Trane XR95. It's pretty new (3 years old, so installed about a year before I bought the house.)

There's no zones at all, 1 single thermostat in the "main floor" hallway (raised ranch, so main floor is basically the first floor, and half of the ground floor is finished, two room, the other half is unfinished basement.)

We have three rooms that don't see a lot of use. The spare bedroom and office upstairs, and the craft room downstairs. Does it make sense to close the registers in those rooms when we're not in there? I know it's hard to tell without detailed info on the unit (CFM, BTUs, etc...) but, generally, aren't furnaces sized appropriately so their return air amount will equal the amount the output? And with the registers being closed, some hot air still gets pushed through the ducts until it hits the closed register, potentially wasting it, and then maybe creating backpressure on the furnace and affecting how well it heats the rest of the house?

The office in particular gets VERY warm, since it's relatively small and has only 1 outside wall (vs the master bedroom and spare bedroom that are corner rooms.) So it almost feels like a waste of heat in that room. The craft room downstairs also gets pretty warm if the register is open because it's small, and being half below grade is well insulated.( I think?)

But if I close the register to the craft room, it gets VERY cold. Like...50's. Probably because of the wall it shares with the unfinished basement behind it (I think it has R-19 insulation, but it's only a 2x4 frame, so it might be stuffed in too much and is compressed.)

We keep the thermostat at 68 most of the time when we're home, but the craft room is probably upper 70's, and office mid 70's. The craft room is mostly below the living room, so I'm also wondering if keeping it heated helps maintain the living room at a better temp?

Edit: I'll post over in the HVAC thread, too.

To some extent you can close registers, but you have to be careful not to overdo it by reducing air throughput and increasing static pressure. The heat exchanger has a minimum airflow requirement below which you may overheat it which can trip the safety and cause damage. Air balancing can be hard to get right, but making relatively conservative adjustments is safer than blocking things completely. Also, make sure the spaces you want heat are fully open first.

FogHelmut
Dec 18, 2003

The previous owners painted the garage door, and it's chipping and bubbling everywhere. Is it worth repainting correctly? Can it even be done correctly? Like I don't want to have to repaint every two years. Should I just get a new door in the color I want?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

FogHelmut posted:

The previous owners painted the garage door, and it's chipping and bubbling everywhere. Is it worth repainting correctly? Can it even be done correctly? Like I don't want to have to repaint every two years. Should I just get a new door in the color I want?

I'd bet they just didn't prep the surface properly before painting, and the old paint underneath is peeling, causing the bubbling. The fix would be to strip off the paint wherever it's not adhering properly, sand, TSP, and paint.

FogHelmut
Dec 18, 2003

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I'd bet they just didn't prep the surface properly before painting, and the old paint underneath is peeling, causing the bubbling. The fix would be to strip off the paint wherever it's not adhering properly, sand, TSP, and paint.

How long does that last? I mean, realistically I'm looking at around $100 or so in paint/supplies, maybe less, maybe more - all of the weather stripping is bad.

A new door is like $600-$1000. This isn't a fancy door to begin with. Just trying to figure how much effort is worth my time vs just popping in a new door.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
How long does a paint job last? It depends on a lot of factors, but generally on the order of 10-15 years, I guess? But a new door would also need to be protected from the elements, unless I guess it's made out of metal. The new door would be easier to prep for painting since it wouldn't need to be stripped and sanded, and might even come pre-primered.

fyallm
Feb 27, 2007



College Slice
I bought my house 2 years ago and it was built in the 40s (2k square feet & 2 story). I am assuming it had a coal furnace at one point and time but now it just has a heat pump..

But during winter months my electric bill get's to be insane (last month was $320, this month it's going to be even higher) so I am looking for ways to lower this..

And that brings me to this thread, I just had my basement waterproofed and while working down there I noticed there is still the coal chute which doesn't close all of the way and so cold air is just coming straight through:





Is there an easy way to insulate or close off this coal chute so cold air doesn't just flow right into my basement?

Also there is this hole which I have no idea what it was for but I am guessing it isn't needed now. I have a wood burning fireplace on the first floor that I believe has a hole in the bottom that leads down to this hole...





It also just has cold air shooting through it... How can I close it up / make it so cold air doesn't come straight in.

FogHelmut
Dec 18, 2003

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

How long does a paint job last? It depends on a lot of factors, but generally on the order of 10-15 years, I guess? But a new door would also need to be protected from the elements, unless I guess it's made out of metal. The new door would be easier to prep for painting since it wouldn't need to be stripped and sanded, and might even come pre-primered.

Oh yeah, this door is metal, does that make a difference to the prep?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

FogHelmut posted:

Oh yeah, this door is metal, does that make a difference to the prep?

I'm not super-familiar with the stripping and sanding process, but my guess is it mostly just means that you can be more aggressive with any power tools you might want to use. Normal paint doesn't adhere to metal very well either, so you'd absolutely need a good layer of primer first. In fact, if the PO didn't use primer before painting the metal, that could explain why it's coming off now. You're always supposed to use primer when painting something for the first time, but it's especially important on smooth materials like metal. You can buy paint that includes primer in itself, which supposedly means you don't need a primer coat. I don't know how effective that would necessarily be on metal. Just buy normal primer and put that on after you've stripped the peeling paint off and cleaned the metal.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

fyallm posted:

I bought my house 2 years ago and it was built in the 40s (2k square feet & 2 story). I am assuming it had a coal furnace at one point and time but now it just has a heat pump..

But during winter months my electric bill get's to be insane (last month was $320, this month it's going to be even higher) so I am looking for ways to lower this..

And that brings me to this thread, I just had my basement waterproofed and while working down there I noticed there is still the coal chute which doesn't close all of the way and so cold air is just coming straight through:





Is there an easy way to insulate or close off this coal chute so cold air doesn't just flow right into my basement?

Cut a piece of rigid insulation board to fit, and affix it in place with some spray foam. Not pretty, but should work. I'd also caulk the door shut from the outside.

Same process with the other hole. I bet that was exhaust for whatever the old furnace was.

While you've got the spray foam, go and look for any other places air is leaking in in the basement. The cans are generally one time use unless you clean them really well, so might as well do as much as possible with it.

devicenull fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Dec 31, 2017

effika
Jun 19, 2005
Birds do not want you to know any more than you already do.
So there's a ceiling with a crack running most of its length:





Is there anything that can be done to help it? Or is replacing the drywall the answer?

The crack is not stable and grows a bit each year in length and width.

House is from either the mid 60's or early 70's.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
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Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

effika posted:

So there's a ceiling with a crack running most of its length:

Is there anything that can be done to help it? Or is replacing the drywall the answer?

The crack is not stable and grows a bit each year in length and width.

House is from either the mid 60's or early 70's.

I'm not remotely an expert on this stuff, but the drywall's not gonna move on its own; if it's cracking, that means that the ceiling joists are moving. That might indicate a serious problem. The only way to know is to take the drywall down, open up the ceiling, and take a look. Fortunately this isn't a whole lot more work than just repairing the drywall would be in the first place. Movement of the joists might be because someone did a lovely job of notching them to install something, and they're weak enough to flex under load. The fix would be to jack up the ceiling and install new joists alongside the compromised ones. Movement could also be due to degradation (i.e. rot) at the points where the joists are supported, which is a much more serious problem, but I'd guess that's less likely.

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005



effika posted:

So there's a ceiling with a crack running most of its length:





Is there anything that can be done to help it? Or is replacing the drywall the answer?

The crack is not stable and grows a bit each year in length and width.

House is from either the mid 60's or early 70's.

Can you access the roof of this room from an attic space? If so you can look at it from there for the cause of the crack and it's continued growth.

Possibly your foundation is settling on one side, are there any cracks or stressed areas in your walls? If you look outside your house is the foundation wall consistent the whole way around or has one wall sunken into the ground?

I would suspect one or more walls that are parallel to the crack are the problem walls if indeed you have any settling.

I just recently sold a 1960s house with $10K worth of foundation issues (disclosed), so I hope your cause is not as pricey.

effika
Jun 19, 2005
Birds do not want you to know any more than you already do.

tangy yet delightful posted:

Can you access the roof of this room from an attic space? If so you can look at it from there for the cause of the crack and it's continued growth.

Possibly your foundation is settling on one side, are there any cracks or stressed areas in your walls? If you look outside your house is the foundation wall consistent the whole way around or has one wall sunken into the ground?

I would suspect one or more walls that are parallel to the crack are the problem walls if indeed you have any settling.

I just recently sold a 1960s house with $10K worth of foundation issues (disclosed), so I hope your cause is not as pricey.

We can get into the attic to check.

The house definitely has foundation issues-- I wouldn't be surprised if the last "fix" wasn't much of a fix. It's sitting on clay. People here cheap out a lot and put concrete piers in that don't go very deep.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I'm not remotely an expert on this stuff, but the drywall's not gonna move on its own; if it's cracking, that means that the ceiling joists are moving. That might indicate a serious problem. The only way to know is to take the drywall down, open up the ceiling, and take a look. Fortunately this isn't a whole lot more work than just repairing the drywall would be in the first place. Movement of the joists might be because someone did a lovely job of notching them to install something, and they're weak enough to flex under load. The fix would be to jack up the ceiling and install new joists alongside the compromised ones. Movement could also be due to degradation (i.e. rot) at the points where the joists are supported, which is a much more serious problem, but I'd guess that's less likely.

I bet when we get into the attic we'll find there's a few joists that aren't great and a combo of foundation issues simply pulling things apart.

Thanks thread!

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.



effika posted:

So there's a ceiling with a crack running most of its length:





Is there anything that can be done to help it? Or is replacing the drywall the answer?

The crack is not stable and grows a bit each year in length and width.

House is from either the mid 60's or early 70's.

That's a typical issue of houses that age, they settle. Idk that replacing the drywall is where you want to go, that's a big loving mess. Taking a look up there, sometimes cross-bracing trusses will independently add more stability to the structure. You may then be able to run some web tape along the crack and mud it without tearing any drywall down*, but matching that texture will probably require redoing the texture entire room. Still better than tearing out all the drywall ceiling, redoing it, re-taping and mudding, re-texturing by a long mile.

When you're in the attic, you may find you need more insulation at the end of whatever you do. Mid-60's wasn't all that energy conscious.

*edit- and add some drywall screws to the joists anywhere near the crack or where the drywall seems loose. It's going to be literally dried out, so don't just randomly punch them in.

Mr. Mambold fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Dec 31, 2017

effika
Jun 19, 2005
Birds do not want you to know any more than you already do.

Mr. Mambold posted:

That's a typical issue of houses that age, they settle. Idk that replacing the drywall is where you want to go, that's a big loving mess. Taking a look up there, sometimes cross-bracing trusses will independently add more stability to the structure. You may then be able to run some web tape along the crack and mud it without tearing any drywall down*, but matching that texture will probably require redoing the texture entire room. Still better than tearing out all the drywall ceiling, redoing it, re-taping and mudding, re-texturing by a long mile.

When you're in the attic, you may find you need more insulation at the end of whatever you do. Mid-60's wasn't all that energy conscious.

*edit- and add some drywall screws to the joists anywhere near the crack or where the drywall seems loose. It's going to be literally dried out, so don't just randomly punch them in.

Some cross-braces and extra screws sound like a good idea, too!

This ceiling has so many mis-matched patch jobs on it that it probably just needs to have the texture removed/redone at some point, so getting a close match isn't high on the list.

I'm mostly just wanting the ceiling to not fall down on us while we assess what's up with it and find somebody to do the work, if it turns out the joists are rotted or something dire like that.

If we can avoid tearing out the ceiling all the better! That sounds like a huge hassle.

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002
What's up with those ceiling outlet boxes? Single gang boxes like that are used for switches and outlets on walls. Ceiling fixtures use their own boxes. What's worrying is that there's 2 of them and they're in line. Did a previous owner knock out a load bearing wall there and patch up the wires from the removed wall boxes at the ceiling with the cheap boxes?

edit: If that's a standard 4' wide sheet of drywall, then judging by the right angle of that crack, it looks like a sheet ends along those blank outlet boxes. Now the drywaller could have started the ceiling along a wall that's no longer there, or it could just be the normal spacing of the drywall across a larger room.

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Dec 31, 2017

effika
Jun 19, 2005
Birds do not want you to know any more than you already do.

kid sinister posted:

What's up with those ceiling outlet boxes? Gang boxes like that are used for switches and outlets on walls. Ceiling fixtures use their own boxes. What's worrying is that there's 2 of them and they're in line. Did a previous owner knock out a load bearing wall there and patch up the wires from the removed wall boxes at the ceiling with the cheap boxes?

A previous owner installed 4 speakers in the ceiling, and did not get them where they wanted them on the first attempt as far as we can tell (there's two more out of shot). There's nothing behind those outlet boxes except missing sheetrock. The room isn't big enough for a wall to make sense there, and it would be blocking the fireplace into a room that's really skinny, so I'm pretty confident it's just a lazy and bad speaker install job.

Hence why getting the whole ceiling re-textured at some point is on The List. :sigh:

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.



effika posted:

Some cross-braces and extra screws sound like a good idea, too!

This ceiling has so many mis-matched patch jobs on it that it probably just needs to have the texture removed/redone at some point, so getting a close match isn't high on the list.

I'm mostly just wanting the ceiling to not fall down on us while we assess what's up with it and find somebody to do the work, if it turns out the joists are rotted or something dire like that.

If we can avoid tearing out the ceiling all the better! That sounds like a huge hassle.

Rotting in ceiling joists is like a never event.

PainterofCrap
Oct 17, 2002

hey bebe



FogHelmut posted:

The previous owners painted the garage door, and it's chipping and bubbling everywhere. Is it worth repainting correctly? Can it even be done correctly? Like I don't want to have to repaint every two years. Should I just get a new door in the color I want?

Is it an overhead sectional (assume so)
Is it wood or metal? If metal, does it have a pebbled finish (oh such fun to strip)
is it panelled (if so, it's a pain in the rear end to strip)
does it have windows
Is the door completely sound in every other way (except the afore-mentioned weatherstripping)?

PainterofCrap
Oct 17, 2002

hey bebe



fyallm posted:

I bought my house 2 years ago and it was built in the 40s (2k square feet & 2 story). I am assuming it had a coal furnace at one point and time but now it just has a heat pump..

But during winter months my electric bill get's to be insane (last month was $320, this month it's going to be even higher) so I am looking for ways to lower this..

And that brings me to this thread, I just had my basement waterproofed and while working down there I noticed there is still the coal chute which doesn't close all of the way and so cold air is just coming straight through:





Is there an easy way to insulate or close off this coal chute so cold air doesn't just flow right into my basement?

Short term: Cut a piece of 1" rigid foam board & wedge it carefully in the hole.
Long term (next summer): CMU & mortar it up

fyallm posted:

Also there is this hole which I have no idea what it was for but I am guessing it isn't needed now. I have a wood burning fireplace on the first floor that I believe has a hole in the bottom that leads down to this hole...





It also just has cold air shooting through it... How can I close it up / make it so cold air doesn't come straight in

That is the old coal furnace flue. They make caps for them. Lowe's, HD or a plumbing HVAC supply place should have them. Looks like a 6" opening.

Short term: stuff it with batt insulation or newspaper & put a cap over it.

Long term: Mortar it up. You could probably fill it to within a couple inches of the wall surface with expanding foam, them cap it with quick-set mortar. I have a burning hatred for Great Stuff, though, so I hate to recommend it.

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brugroffil
Nov 30, 2015


Great time for furnace problems!

Three times in the past 24 hours, we've had the four-blink limit switch error code on our furnace. The furnace is running pretty heavily because it's so cold. Filter is only a couple weeks old so I'm not sure what's triggering it. The switch doesn't seem to be resetting unless I go turn power to the furnace off and then on, then it'll heat right up like normal.

It's a guardian 95% efficiency furnace, if that makes any difference

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