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Under the vegetable posted:It's much smarter than Crash and I've yet to be convinced that anyone who sees this movie as racist is correct, rather than having racism so deeply ingrained into them that they see everything colored through their own stereotyping The thing is, David Ayer is like an otaku but for MS-13.
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Dec 28, 2017 06:32
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After reading some more criticism of this film I think there are a lot of head up their rear end nerds huffing their own farts, who can't actually enjoy anything anymore because they got to find the hot take and be the next red letter media. Also VV Under the vegetable posted:It's much smarter than Crash and I've yet to be convinced that anyone who sees this movie as racist is correct, rather than having racism so deeply ingrained into them that they see everything colored through their own stereotyping Yeah, its like Sing where you could tell who was racist because they thought the gorillas were supposed to be "black" because in their mind "Ape = black." Same thing here, as there was nothing to code the Orcs as black unless you think that "tribal ugly dudes in football jerseys = black."
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Dec 28, 2017 06:54
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Yikes
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Dec 28, 2017 07:00
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Under the vegetable posted:It's much smarter than Crash and I've yet to be convinced that anyone who sees this movie as racist is correct, rather than having racism so deeply ingrained into them that they see everything colored through their own stereotyping The movie uses an all lives matter meme and has orcs reenacting scenes from the wire, but yes, it's just us seeing the mirrored racism from our hearts in this piece of art about orcs and elves. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Dec 28, 2017 |
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Dec 28, 2017 07:11
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bushisms.txt posted:The movie uses an all lives matter cliche and has orcs reenacting scenes from the wire, but yes, it's just us seeing the mirrored racism from our hearts in this piece of art about orcs and elves. Yeah, it seems like it. This reminds me of the Cornel West/Ta-Nehisi Coates thing all over again, with an argument for awareness of the intersectionality of race and class butting heads with a shallow dependence on conflict. I don't know how productive it is to tell people who come out of a work with positive messages like racial harmony is good, the police are bad, the rich disproportionately influence our lives, etc, that actually the great thing they just watched is racist and they should feel like poo poo, especially when these criticisms are rooted in such shallow, halfhearted, occasionally dishonest readings of the source material.
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Dec 28, 2017 07:22
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Those black guys who were joking about Ward taking out the fairy "LAPD style" didn't seem so happy that he actually did it for real, mind.
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Dec 28, 2017 07:55
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I don’t really know what Landis has done in his personal life ( not great things if the rumors are true), but I really, really liked the script that he wrote for this. Like a modernized Shadowrun with some of the dumber stuff minimized . Does the finished product reflect his script at all or nah? I’ve heard they changed things.
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Dec 28, 2017 09:43
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themrguy posted:I don’t really know what Landis has done in his personal life ( not great things if the rumors are true), but I really, really liked the script that he wrote for this. Like a modernized Shadowrun with some of the dumber stuff minimized . Does the finished product reflect his script at all or nah? I’ve heard they changed things. I think the orc gang leader's speech was his, but apparently enough was changed that Max did not feel like talking about it much. The fairy lives lines was improvised by Smith, for example.
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Dec 28, 2017 09:58
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Yeah I’m finishing watching it now, and yikes they changed a lot from the script. Almost all of the changes are bad too. Say what you want about Landis, but a lot of the stuff people are bagging on is not stuff that was in the script I read at least. I really thought that it was dumb that they changed the main bad guys from being a team of shadowy black-ops mercenaries opportunistically trying to grab the wand because a corrupt cop reached out to them, to being worshippers of the dark lord. It was really dumb and made the story less “fantasy kilo of coke” to more hackneyed ‘stop the evildoers’. What I liked about the original script was that they were basically a runner team. I don’t know how I like the whole ‘elves rule the world’ thing either. In the original script it’s kind of implied that elves are, like in shadowrun, a minority that faces some prejudice, although not nearly as much as Orcs obviously, no one is really surprised to see a elven federal agent. Also, why is LA depicted as being on the brink of war in some scenes, with APCs standing on guard outside of police station and elven district? Despite all this, I did kinda like it. I really liked the way magic was presented as being really loving dangerous and rare.
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Dec 28, 2017 10:21
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themrguy posted:Yeah I’m finishing watching it now, and yikes they changed a lot from the script. Almost all of the changes are bad too. Say what you want about Landis, but a lot of the stuff people are bagging on is not stuff that was in the script I read at least. I overall enjoyed Bright and had no idea about these changes from the script, and what you point out there are probably my biggest issues about the film. It really shouldn't have had the whole dark lord "plot", it does not mesh well with the rest of the movie, and it's way too clichèd. It seemed a bit weird to me that despite apparently being very numerous, both Orcs and Elves have one language each (conveniently called "Orc" and "Elf", while humanity speaks a lot more than just "Human"), and they are presented as being very uniform culturally (although we don't actually get a look outside the US). I get that they're stand-ins for human minorities, but it does not really scale well up to whole species comparable to humans. It does not do a lot to avoid the "All orcs/elves are the same" thing.
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Dec 28, 2017 11:37
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This movie isn't fantastic but it would have a hard time breaching top 20 for worst movies of the year. I am not sure why Noomi Rapace agreed to be in it though, but from what you guys are saying she originally agreed to a part that had something to do in the script.Numlock posted:After reading some more criticism of this film I think there are a lot of head up their rear end nerds huffing their own farts, who can't actually enjoy anything anymore because they got to find the hot take and be the next red letter media. I would say the negative reception is due to: - The perception of Will Smith starring as Will Smith, doing another Will Smith vehicle set in the 90's, and people can't wait to tell you how sick they are of that. - A racist main character says and does racist things. - David Ayer is easy to make fun of after Suicide Squad. I think maybe the strongest idea in the movie is its somewhat-coherent theory that any society will organize itself into social classes, with the availability of post-scarcity power only exacerbating this effect, not eliminating it--but offsetting that is that the savior is real, and strong, and Will Smith's friend. But this really felt like a movie that would have been better served by Neil Blomkamp's attention to detail and skill at more seamlessly weaving in setting details, as opposed to "HEY YOU KNOW THE ORCS KILLED JESUS RIGHT?" just blurted outright five or seventeen times at the characters, and hey also occasionally there's a Tolkien creature doing things that humans do. In a winter movie season with Justice League in it, the faults in this movie are quite unremarkable, and dragging it through the mud comes off like an attempt at trying to get clicks. Audience reception has been considerably better than critical reception.
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Dec 28, 2017 11:43
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Under the vegetable posted:Sometimes it's nice to see a movie just be an entertaining movie that lets you piece things together in a fun way from context clues, instead of wasting huge amounts of time with exposition and quips Bright is not one of those movies though. We have no idea why the elves are the bad guys or why one elf decided to leave the evil gang for example.
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Dec 28, 2017 12:31
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Bright is the best movie of 2017
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Dec 28, 2017 14:16
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Under the vegetable posted:Yeah, it seems like it. This reminds me of the Cornel West/Ta-Nehisi Coates thing all over again, with an argument for awareness of the intersectionality of race and class butting heads with a shallow dependence on conflict. I don't know how productive it is to tell people who come out of a work with positive messages like racial harmony is good, the police are bad, the rich disproportionately influence our lives, etc, that actually the great thing they just watched is racist and they should feel like poo poo, especially when these criticisms are rooted in such shallow, halfhearted, occasionally dishonest readings of the source material. Productive? Telling people to feel bad? What a childish view of art. Oh no, what you like might be problematic, it's bad for me to bring that up because it might reflect on your own racism? Is it just scary you didn't see what we saw and now you don't want to be a bigot? Because trying to toss in cornel West anything into this discussion of race and class makes you look incredible ignorant, especially when class is only part of the problem in this country that was built on the enslavement and genocide of the other. But it's fine, revel in your half assed allegorical movies about race as they're the only way you would engage "honestly" in the actual discussion of struggle we black folks have. Side question, do you think we want to see racism in this film? That we're just stringing stuff together to dunk on people who say sjw and pc sincerely? If i could watch a rad movie about orcs and elves in the future without being reminded that the US thinks my people should still be slaves in some states, I'd never post here again. Unfortunately, Landis is a privileged white guy who lives in a city that demonized black folks since celluloid made it to the West. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Dec 28, 2017 |
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Dec 28, 2017 14:21
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themrguy posted:Also, why is LA depicted as being on the brink of war in some scenes, with APCs standing on guard outside of police station and elven district? In real life LA had an extreme burst of gang violence between like ~1988 to like ~1992 where the homicide rate rose by 800% from what it was a decade ago then went back down a few years later. It hasn't been real for two decades now but it made such a striking image that is kinda just how people show LA in fiction even now where the homicide rate is what it is everywhere else in the US.
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Dec 28, 2017 14:58
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:In real life LA had an extreme burst of gang violence between like ~1988 to like ~1992 where the homicide rate rose by 800% from what it was a decade ago then went back down a few years later. It hasn't been real for two decades now but it made such a striking image that is kinda just how people show LA in fiction even now where the homicide rate is what it is everywhere else in the US. That's how the near future L.A. in Predator 2 became so ridiculous, they actually thought that was a reasonable idea of what the future might look like there.
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Dec 28, 2017 15:10
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themrguy posted:Yeah I’m finishing watching it now, and yikes they changed a lot from the script. Almost all of the changes are bad too. Say what you want about Landis, but a lot of the stuff people are bagging on is not stuff that was in the script I read at least. Is there a detailed breakdown of what was changed from Landis' script somewhere? Because I'm legit curious.
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Dec 28, 2017 15:57
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Basebf555 posted:That's how the near future L.A. in Predator 2 became so ridiculous, they actually thought that was a reasonable idea of what the future might look like there. Yeah, the murder rate in LA rose by more than 8x in less than a decade and also SWAT teams are seen as a normal thing everyone has now but were basically an LA invention in the 1970s and when they got visibility it looked like "I guess LA just has an army now?"
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Dec 28, 2017 16:18
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Fart City posted:Is there a detailed breakdown of what was changed from Landis' script somewhere? Because I'm legit curious. I wouldn't be surprised if the latino gang was added by Ayer.
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Dec 28, 2017 16:39
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Hispanic gangs in Los Angeles? Wow. Racist and sexist much?
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Dec 28, 2017 16:51
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strong bird posted:Hispanic gangs in Los Angeles? Wow. Racist and sexist much? Like usually when you have a racism metaphor with fantasy stuff as stand in for real stuff you either have the fantasy stuff instead of the stuff it's being a metaphor for OR you have the fantasy stuff and the real stuff then make some comment on how they are different or the same or something.
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Dec 28, 2017 16:54
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like usually when you have a racism metaphor with fantasy stuff as stand in for real stuff you either have the fantasy stuff instead of the stuff it's being a metaphor for OR you have the fantasy stuff and the real stuff then make some comment on how they are different or the same or something. Not if the director have huge boner for latino gangs.
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Dec 28, 2017 17:04
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Fart City posted:Is there a detailed breakdown of what was changed from Landis' script somewhere? Because I'm legit curious. I'm looking for a copy of the original 2015 spec screenplay but here's a copy of the 02/29/16 version of the script after it had been revised by Ayer: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o7h1yix9tlg1w6l/BRIGHT_1.pdf?dl=0 A brief list of differences from the filmed version: Will Smith's character is a white dude. His wife is a stripper, the daughter isn't his but he's raising her anyway Elftown isn't mentioned at all We briefly see a bunch of other races (ogre, dwarf, lizardman) but no centaurs or dragon The guys hunting them down are paramilitary humans and not evil elves The leader of the Latino gang isn't in a wheelchair The dirty cops "know a guy" who can use the wand The wand's "owner" is a freaky human witch and not an elf. There's no "They need 3 wands to bring back the Dark Lord" stuff. Anyone can touch the wand without it exploding. The hobo with the sword makes a prediction to Ward that "33 seconds will be your reward", in the end the Feds get a 33 second recording that exonerates Ward and proves that the cops he shot were dirty. The hobo isn't a member of the Shield Of Light Racism between humans still exists, Rodriguez says "Mexicans still get poo poo for the Alamo" Regular humans can also use wands if they've studied for years. Ward isn't a Bright. There's no titty bar shootout Jakoby realises that it's an insane coincidence that the Orc he helped escape just happened to be in the right place to save their lives, he guesses that this is evidence that they're in a prophecy Jakoby doesn't die and get resurrected by the wand, he just gets hosed up really badly and healed Ward actually chose to have Jakoby as a partner, there's no "look of pure hatred" scene Tikka (elf girl) was being trained to fight the Dark Lord, the witch attacks their secret base and accidentally leaves the wand behind Edit: okay, apparently this was the original script: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8f8GCZAhRX_WVBGXy1XSkdJZ1U/view It's pretty much the same as the 02/29/16 Ayer revisions except the two protagonists leave the Sherrif's deputy to deal with the hobo with the sword instead of arresting him themselves and the Feds had a lizardman agent called Louis Lapaglia they speak to on the phone and a few other minor changes. Jakoby chose Alvins/Ward as his partner and not the other way around. Alhazred posted:I wouldn't be surprised if the latino gang was added by Ayer. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Dec 28, 2017 |
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Dec 28, 2017 18:07
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That Alamo line made it in, though.
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Dec 28, 2017 18:15
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The premise of this movie is that someone in the LAPD was ordered "we've gotta get a token minority in the department" and misheard it as "we've gotta get a Tolkien minority in the department."
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Dec 28, 2017 18:20
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Pretty funny that they used basically that same scene from Training Day where Hawke is saved because he protected some girl that just happens to be the niece of the dude about to kill him. I rolled my eyes then and rolled them again watching this.
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Dec 28, 2017 18:20
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Basebf555 posted:Pretty funny that they used basically that same scene from Training Day where Hawke is saved because he protected some girl that just happens to be the niece of the dude about to kill him. I rolled my eyes then and rolled them again watching this. This also happens in Bright's alternate universe prequel, Zootopia
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Dec 28, 2017 18:22
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josh04 posted:That Alamo line made it in, though. Oh yeah it did, I thought they changed it
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Dec 28, 2017 18:27
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josh04 posted:That Alamo line made it in, though. I guess they remembered it after all.
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Dec 28, 2017 18:28
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Too much cops not enough shadowrunner.
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Dec 28, 2017 18:34
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The parts where cops were being killed kicked rear end
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Dec 28, 2017 18:41
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The dumbest part about the alamo line is that the Mexicans were trying to get rid of slavery and the Texans didn't even want to pay the token property tax Mexico was trying to work out with them to look the other way.
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Dec 28, 2017 18:45
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bushisms.txt posted:The dumbest part about the alamo line is that the Mexicans were trying to get rid of slavery and the Texans didn't even want to pay the token property tax Mexico was trying to work out with them to look the other way. Please don't highlight the irony of Texas.
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Dec 28, 2017 18:46
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:I'm looking for a copy of the original 2015 spec screenplay but here's a copy of the 02/29/16 version of the script after it had been revised by Ayer: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o7h1yix9tlg1w6l/BRIGHT_1.pdf?dl=0 Holy poo poo, that's like a completely different movie. And actually answers a lot of the criticisms about how magic is handled in the world of the movie.
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Dec 28, 2017 19:02
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I really like the idea of throwing out the Dark Lord and having the wand just be a piece of expensive equipment used by a witch. The whole prophecy of the Dark Lord's return thing really dragged the movie down.
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Dec 28, 2017 19:04
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Basebf555 posted:I really like the idea of throwing out the Dark Lord and having the wand just be a piece of expensive equipment used by a witch. The whole prophecy of the Dark Lord's return thing really dragged the movie down. Yeah he's only tangentially involved in the plot in the earlier scripts: 
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Dec 28, 2017 19:23
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Also, maybe it's just me because I've been trying to perfect my curries recently, but every time they say Tikka I just think Tikka Masala. It didn't help me take the character seriously.
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Dec 28, 2017 19:32
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themrguy posted:Also, why is LA depicted as being on the brink of war in some scenes, with APCs standing on guard outside of police station and elven district? That's just LA.
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Dec 28, 2017 20:31
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bushisms.txt posted:Productive? Telling people to feel bad? What a childish view of art. Oh no, what you like might be problematic, it's bad for me to bring that up because it might reflect on your own racism? Is it just scary you didn't see what we saw and now you don't want to be a bigot? Because trying to toss in cornel West anything into this discussion of race and class makes you look incredible ignorant, especially when class is only part of the problem in this country that was built on the enslavement and genocide of the other. But it's fine, revel in your half assed allegorical movies about race as they're the only way you would engage "honestly" in the actual discussion of struggle we black folks have. You don't speak for every black person you insane racist. Your entire first paragraph might as well be spoken into a mirror. I'm really sick of people who live on fomenting hatred and violence and try to shout down everyone working for peace. Maybe if you gave a single poo poo you'd know that the US doesn't just THINK black people should still be slaves, they're literally in robes in historically unprecedented numbers picking cotton for private individual's profits right now. The 13th only abolished slavery "except as punishment for a crime" and then America just doubled down since. And you're talking about how an anti-racist loving movie hurts. Under the vegetable fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Dec 28, 2017 |
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Dec 28, 2017 20:33
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Alhazred posted:Bright is not one of those movies though. We have no idea why the elves are the bad guys or why one elf decided to leave the evil gang for example. Yes we do. There's a cult of elvish dark lord worshipers, but a member of the cult fell in with a competing, opposed cult instead.
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Dec 28, 2017 20:37
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