Star Trek: *hits blunt* The higher, the fewerrrrrr

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Star Trek: *hits blunt* The higher, the fewerrrrrr

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

I don't have quite the same loathing for NX-Refit, but it definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It reeks of the wish that the people involved in making the show had that they were working on a different show. For some of them it was "TOS 2" and for others it was "TNG 2" (or "TNG 3" if you count Voyager as TNG 2).

I wonder how long it's been since Star Trek had a producer working on the show that actually wanted to be working on a Star Trek. I'm not counting Bryan Fuller because he got canned before actual production and also because it's arguable how much work he actually put into it before he got fired. Fuller said when he was writing for Voyager it felt like nearly everyone on the writing staff hated their jobs.

Timby posted:

Also, Enterprise-J: Another Drexler masterwork.

God, the texturing on that is so heinously bad.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 01:39

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# ? May 20, 2024 00:43

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

The Bloop posted:

I never made the Ent-J to DISCO connection until you made me look at that again.

I wonder if the J has a spore drive

Discovery is inspired by Ralph McQuarrie's rejected design from Planet of the Titans back in 1975:

dont even fink about it posted:

lol what in the figgety gently caress is this high school deviant art bullshit.

The Enterprise-J, as seen in the Azati Prime episode of Enterprise. Again, a Doug Drexler masterwork.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 01:40

Windows 98: Nov 13, 2005; HTTP 400: Bad post

Update: they boned

# ? Dec 29, 2017 01:56

Big Mean Jerk: Jan 27, 2009; Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

Timby posted:

Discovery is inspired by Ralph McQuarrie's rejected design from Planet of the Titans back in 1975:

I�m a huge McQuarrie fan and I�m familiar with nearly everything he did for Star Wars, but it still boggles my mind that he turned in something this poor for Star Trek. It isn�t even close to being acceptable.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 02:18

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

I'm not counting Bryan Fuller because he got canned before actual production and also because it's arguable how much work he actually put into it before he got fired.

No, it's pretty clear, from various interviews. Fuller:

- Wanted a single-season-story / anthology show
- Came up with the Klingon War concept and a broad arc for the series, which may or may not have been thrown out
- Went with the McQuarrie design
- Wrote the first two episodes
- Edit: Got loving fired because all he could come up with in more than a year was two scripts

And that's about it. Berg and Harberts were quoted in interviews saying that they saw the third episode as "their" pilot. And that language really further explains the 15, instead of 13, episode order.

Timby fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Dec 29, 2017

# ? Dec 29, 2017 02:24

HIJK: Nov 25, 2012; in the room where you sleep

Timby posted:

No, it's pretty clear, from various interviews. Fuller:

- Wanted a single-season-story / anthology show
- Came up with the Klingon War concept and a broad arc for the series, which may or may not have been thrown out
- Went with the McQuarrie design
- Wrote the first two episodes
- Edit: Got loving fired because all he could come up with in more than a year was two scripts

And that's about it. Berg and Harberts were quoted in interviews saying that they saw the third episode as "their" pilot. And that language really further explains the 15, instead of 13, episode order.

oh jesus christ Fuller should know better than that

# ? Dec 29, 2017 02:38

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

I loathe the NX refit. NX-01 was designed specifically to lack a secondary hull, probably to show how primitive it is. Adding one is stupid, that's not how real things work; that's not a refit, that's cannibalizing an extant craft to build a whole new one. Plus, changing the fundamental design of your shows ship is a terrible branding idea.

They could have set up an Enterprise/Excelsior rivalry, though, with a new Warp 6 ship which has the extra part. That could work, even if it meant the new ship was built from the bones of Columbia or some other sister to Enterprise. Get Trip all huffy about ruining the lines of the NX, Archer sulking about his daddy's engine being outclassed so soon, and eventually they come to realize it's the wave of the future. Like, have Enterprise save the new model, then they work together, then show why the new ship is better by having it save Enterprise from being totally outclassed by some random threat.

The way to refit NX-01 would have been to add a Miranda- or Oberth-like structure between the nacelles, something like "holy poo poo, we're trying some new engine poo poo, we've got some extra power in here but we're not sure how well it will work..."

Not stapling an Ambassador hull to Constitution nacelles and calling it a day.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 02:40

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

Windows 98 posted:

Riker is going to bone ensign Ro

Windows 98 posted:

Update: they boned

The true progression of all Riker romances.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 02:41

The Bloop: Jul 5, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Timby posted:

Discovery is inspired by Ralph McQuarrie's rejected design from Planet of the Titans back in 1975:

Sure, but McQuarrie's ship didn't have a spinning saucer. Only the DISCO and J do

I'm not saying it was a planned connection, but I'm the right sorry of dork to at least jokingly make the inference

# ? Dec 29, 2017 02:57

Windows 98: Nov 13, 2005; HTTP 400: Bad post

Worf was just struck by a barrel in the cargo bay. Is this going to be a work safety episode?

# ? Dec 29, 2017 03:00

Windows 98: Nov 13, 2005; HTTP 400: Bad post

God I hope Worf is just in a wheelchair for the rest of the series. That would truly be something.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 03:01

Blade_of_tyshalle: Jul 12, 2009; If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.

Timby posted:

The way to refit NX-01 would have been to add a Miranda- or Oberth-like structure between the nacelles, something like "holy poo poo, we're trying some new engine poo poo, we've got some extra power in here but we're not sure how well it will work..."

Yeah, I was thinking about that over dinner. Like, open the storyline with Enterprise doing a test run with this externally mounted drive section, but it goes a little caca and they ditch it. The drive didn't work out, in part, because Enterprise was never designed to lug around that extra chunk, so Starfleet completely rebuilds an existing ship to do it while Enterprise spends a third of the season back out in space doing its thing. And when the new ship finally arrives, it could look like a clear step towards the Constitution.

I mean, isn't that a danger of the NX design? If the engine flips out, it's built right into the ship. They can't really jettison the thing. But a really powerful engine in an external pod, well, just blow the drat thing off and hope you get far enough away to survive.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 03:06

The Bloop: Jul 5, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Windows 98 posted:

God I hope Worf is just in a wheelchair for the rest of the series. That would truly be something.

Wheelchairs are without honor if you're a Klingaboo

# ? Dec 29, 2017 03:08

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

Windows 98 posted:

Worf was just struck by a barrel in the cargo bay. Is this going to be a work safety episode?

An OSHA inspector would have a field day with the Enterprise.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 03:15

Windows 98: Nov 13, 2005; HTTP 400: Bad post

How come the Klingon high council was so old? You�d think a Klingon or two would�ve challenged them at some point. I mean some of them could hardly sit and stand. Isn�t that... abnormal for a Klingon?

# ? Dec 29, 2017 03:15

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

tarlibone posted:

OK... so NX Refit has two navigational deflector arrays? The stock one on the saucer, and the C-band satellite dish on the new engineering hull?

Once they got the dish, they took the space for the old one on the saucer and made it into a ship's disco lounge, Studio 54-Forward.

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

Yeah, I was thinking about that over dinner. Like, open the storyline with Enterprise doing a test run with this externally mounted drive section, but it goes a little caca and they ditch it. The drive didn't work out, in part, because Enterprise was never designed to lug around that extra chunk, so Starfleet completely rebuilds an existing ship to do it while Enterprise spends a third of the season back out in space doing its thing. And when the new ship finally arrives, it could look like a clear step towards the Constitution.

I mean, isn't that a danger of the NX design? If the engine flips out, it's built right into the ship. They can't really jettison the thing. But a really powerful engine in an external pod, well, just blow the drat thing off and hope you get far enough away to survive.

I don't mind the Drexler NX refit myself, but yeah it would have been good to do a story around that. Maybe show that they build bigger engines and needed to put them on a secondary hull for design or safety reasons, which is why we get the 2 hull ships of later years. Then you'd figure by the time they got to Reliant they worked out a way to strap nacelles to a saucer safely again.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 03:16

Winifred Madgers: Feb 12, 2002

HIJK posted:

oh jesus christ Fuller should know better than that

I've never been particularly impressed with anything Fuller has done tbh.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 05:02

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

mllaneza posted:

Nope ! They showed up in TAS, but nothing else has ever been done with them (except for the Star Fleet Battles people, which barely counts). We should get the Romulan War out of the way first anyway.

Incidentally, the Man-Kzin Wars anthologies are mostly pretty good, especially the early ones with Poul Anderson writing classic SF in Niven's universe. If you find used copies and are tempted, go for it.

I would not say they are "very good," but you could do worse for airplane fiction. Mostly.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 05:11

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

The existing NX design was basically an attempt to clean up the Akira so it would fit into the prequel period better since the higher ups were just going to go with that instead, and ya'll are barfing over the refit

fuckin' lol man

# ? Dec 29, 2017 05:13

Windows 98: Nov 13, 2005; HTTP 400: Bad post

This genderless species episode. Roddenberry would�ve loved tumblr

# ? Dec 29, 2017 05:14

Big Mean Jerk: Jan 27, 2009; Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

turn left hillary!! noo posted:

I've never been particularly impressed with anything Fuller has done tbh.

This was my opinion as well until I binged the first two seasons of Hannibal in a week. The guy is clearly talented, he just doesn't know how to run a show without overindulging and pissing off the network. He seems like he's incredibly difficult to work with.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 05:47

Windows 98: Nov 13, 2005; HTTP 400: Bad post

There isn�t a starship in the fleet that has had diagnostics run on their sensors more than the Enterprise

# ? Dec 29, 2017 05:57

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Windows 98 posted:

There isn�t a starship in the fleet that has had diagnostics run on their sensors more than the Enterprise

But only at Level 3. The Levels 1 and 2 kits have been just sitting there collecting space dust.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 06:47

The Bloop: Jul 5, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

After The War posted:

But only at Level 3. The Levels 1 and 2 kits have been just sitting there collecting space dust.

Not to mention all the unprocessed mindrape kits in the only counselor's office that she can't actually process because they're all from her.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 07:05

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

The Bloop posted:

Not to mention all the unprocessed mindrape kits in the only counselor's office that she can't actually process because they're all from her.

Jesus, that's a bit dark. Accurate, but dark.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 07:33

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

Timby posted:

No, it's pretty clear, from various interviews. Fuller:

- Wanted a single-season-story / anthology show
- Came up with the Klingon War concept and a broad arc for the series, which may or may not have been thrown out
- Went with the McQuarrie design
- Wrote the first two episodes
- Edit: Got loving fired because all he could come up with in more than a year was two scripts

And that's about it. Berg and Harberts were quoted in interviews saying that they saw the third episode as "their" pilot. And that language really further explains the 15, instead of 13, episode order.

Can't help but feel like I'm swinging back towards "maybe Bryan Fuller didn't really want to work on Star Trek after all" if he couldn't do better than two scripts in a year. :v:

# ? Dec 29, 2017 08:09

McSpanky: Jan 16, 2005

Y'all should check out the latest season of Black Mirror that just went up on Netflix.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 10:55

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Tunicate posted:

They wanted to do it in s5, allegedly

There was also concept art of a Kzinti ship made for s5, so they were planned to at least make an appearance.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 15:30

BrandonGK: May 6, 2005; Throw it out the airlock.

Timby posted:

Discovery is inspired by Ralph McQuarrie's rejected design from Planet of the Titans back in 1975:

I want someone to love me as much as Ralph McQuarrie loves triangles.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 15:40

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

All the franchises keep going back to Ralph McQuarrie for inspiration. Look forward! Do new things! Stop scraping concept art that didn�t make the cut the last time!

# ? Dec 29, 2017 15:59

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Can't help but feel like I'm swinging back towards "maybe Bryan Fuller didn't really want to work on Star Trek after all" if he couldn't do better than two scripts in a year.

How much of that is actually confirmed as opposed to rumors?

# ? Dec 29, 2017 16:09

Blade_of_tyshalle: Jul 12, 2009; If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.

The_Doctor posted:

All the franchises keep going back to Ralph McQuarrie for inspiration. Look forward! Do new things! Stop scraping concept art that didn’t make the cut the last time!

Look pal, you got two options here. Ralph McQuarrie, or John Eves. Scylla and Charybdis.

But I'm warning you. Last guy who thought he was Odysseus? Doug Drexler.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 16:21

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

gently caress that let's do Syd Mead Trek.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 16:24

Kibayasu: Mar 28, 2010

I bet you could get some good Star Trek out of Peter Elson inspired designs.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 17:33

gourdcaptain: Nov 16, 2012

Grand Fromage posted:

gently caress that let's do Syd Mead Trek.

I am up for the Enterprise having a mustache.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 18:11

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

why can't we just do Andrew Probert trek and revive the Movie Enterprise model? :(

# ? Dec 29, 2017 18:13

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that the first new Black Mirror episode, USS Callister, is extremely Star Trek themed (TOS themed in particular) and would be good watching for anyone who reads this thread.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 18:14

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

why can't we just do Andrew Probert trek and revive the Movie Enterprise model?

Didn't you know? The future looks like poo poo now, that's what's realistic.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 18:19

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

FlamingLiberal posted:

How much of that is actually confirmed as opposed to rumors?

Fuller himself confirmed he had done two scripts and was then fired in a December 2016 Newsweek interview; in the same interview he confirmed that he had written the overall season arc and given it to the new producers but he had no idea how much they'd stick to it, if at all. Harberts and Berg's line about Episode 3 being "their" pilot was from an interview this past August.

Timby fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Dec 29, 2017

# ? Dec 29, 2017 18:22

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# ? May 20, 2024 00:43

tarlibone: Aug 1, 2014; Fun Shoe

Astroman posted:

Once they got the dish, they took the space for the old one on the saucer and made it into a ship's disco lounge, Studio 54-Forward.

Studio 54ward.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 19:53

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