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EclecticTastes posted:Suikoden had two installments out before Chrono Cross was released. If you think forty-five is a lot of dudes for your party, try upwards of seventy out of 108 recruits, and also they find ways to keep the benchwarmers relevant. Except that Yoko Taro had basically nothing to do with Drakengard 2, so he wins over Suikoden 
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Dec 30, 2017 04:35
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Vil posted:a large cast of characters for the sake of more playable characters is rather less exciting. Cast of 50 characters! Pick two of them to be in your party (because the main character always takes up a spot). Actually, usually it's pick one because you're forced to use someone for some reason. Accent generator guy is a true hero, though.
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Dec 30, 2017 04:53
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EclecticTastes posted:Suikoden had two installments out before Chrono Cross was released. If you think forty-five is a lot of dudes for your party, try upwards of seventy out of 108 recruits, and also they find ways to keep the benchwarmers relevant. You're omitting two key details: 1. A lot of those 108 recruits aren't actually fighters, but basically home base NPCs that run poo poo like stores, inns, libraries, and other poo poo. The exact amount of combatants-to-services varies a bit, but it's generally around half the roster. I'd have to do a count to see which ones have the most of each. (EDIT: I did go and check and it's actually closer to 2-to-1 for fighters/services, generally around 70 combatants among the Stars of Destiny) 2. Suikoden games have 6 person parties (leaving out the four-person parties of Suikoden 4, which is a series black sheep in a lot of ways), compared to the three-member teams of Chrono Cross. With both series requiring the first slot for the Main Character, that leaves 2 extras for CC parties compared to 5 free slots for Suikoden teams. In short, Suikoden's list of combatants isn't actually much larger than CC's, and you've got a lot more room to try them all out. Bufuman fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Dec 30, 2017 |
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Dec 30, 2017 04:57
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There's a boss fight in Suikoden 2 that has you using 3 sets of parties, each with 6 people, to fight a gauntlet against one really tough motherfucker. And if each party isn't well-rounded and competent it's easy for him to just roll over you. That is how you do massive character casts well.
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Dec 30, 2017 05:00
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Yet even in Suikoden with 108 recruitable characters, nobody is willing to call him "Nines".KamikazePotato posted:There's a boss fight in Suikoden 2 that has you using 3 sets of parties, each with 6 people, to fight a gauntlet against one really tough motherfucker. And if each party isn't well-rounded and competent it's easy for him to just roll over you. That is how you do massive character casts well. That remains the best RPG fight I have ever played through
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Dec 30, 2017 05:10
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So which Suikoden games are worth playing through?
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Dec 30, 2017 05:16
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Zerilan posted:So which Suikoden games are worth playing through? 2 is the overwhelming favorite among series fans, mostly due to one of the best villains in JRPG history (to put it as simply as I can, Luca Blight is basically the Caim of Suikoden). 1 and 5 are both pretty great and do a fair bit to set up series continuity (which is one of Suikoden's strongest points, connecting the various people, places, and events throughout different games in the series). 3 is a love/hate type of thing, where the development team opted to try some radical new things and dip their toes into the 3D world. Some things worked, others didn't, but it's still pretty good. 4 made a lot of REALLY bad calls (the aforementioned 4-person parties down from the traditional six, and THAT loving WORLD MAP) but if you can get past it's terrible horrible flaws, there's a semi-decent game in there. Don't blame you if you don't want to try though.
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Dec 30, 2017 05:23
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Bufuman posted:
2 is definitely my favorite (beats out 1 because it gives the option to run in town maps), but 4 gets a lot of poo poo and I honestly really liked it in spite of its many flaws. I'm a huge sucker for ocean themed games and it scratched the hell out of that itch Edit: Derail over?
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Dec 30, 2017 05:28
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EclecticTastes posted:Suikoden had two installments out before Chrono Cross was released. If you think forty-five is a lot of dudes for your party, try upwards of seventy out of 108 recruits, and also they find ways to keep the benchwarmers relevant. So I did the maths and this seems to add up to Drakengard 1 being "mostly good with significant flaws". I guess you could consider 100% of the gameplay being fuckawful a significant flaw but I don't think it's one a game can have and still come out the other side as "mostly good".
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Dec 30, 2017 05:37
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McFetusBurger posted:2 is definitely my favorite (beats out 1 because it gives the option to run in town maps), but 4 gets a lot of poo poo and I honestly really liked it in spite of its many flaws. I'm a huge sucker for ocean themed games and it scratched the hell out of that itch Maybe this should go to the Nintendo thread, but I would love the chance to replay both 1 and 2 on the Switch. (Also the music is really, really good.)
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Dec 30, 2017 05:44
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Yoko Taro - Siliconera Interview, 2017 posted:I’ve come to realize just how much fans love me, and how happy that makes me… so, during an autograph event a girl caught my eye and I decided to follow her back to her house, but she didn’t let me in her room, which I thought was weird, because she is my fan after all, so I grabbed a crowbar-like thing and opened her room’s door for an explanation, but she was only screaming and would not listen, and before I realized, she was on the ground covered in blood, and I didn’t do anything wrong, and she wasn’t responding, and since I couldn’t help I left from the balcony running as fast as I could, and when I finally arrived to a building I broke and entered through the back window and hid inside a closet. Then I sensed someone coming in, so I slowly snuck behind them, raising the crowbar. Right now, behind you. This man is a goddamn treasure
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Dec 30, 2017 06:08
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LonelyMudkip posted:This man is a goddamn treasure If I could just have one night of drinking with yoko taro, id just go ahead and call that a life worth living.
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Dec 30, 2017 06:10
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I love the video he did for that game Tiny Metal. "What did you think of the music" "Well I only played it for 5 minutes and couldn't really hear it"
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Dec 30, 2017 06:49
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Hemingway To Go! posted:I hope one day Yoko gets to play LISA Which is funny because I recall one article that said LiSA: The Painful could be considered a successor to Nier.
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Dec 30, 2017 12:12
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LonelyMudkip posted:Yoko Taro interview Oh god, wow. That is funny and terrible. Terrinny. Or Furrible.
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Dec 30, 2017 12:59
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painedforever posted:Oh god, wow. That is funny and terrible. Terrinny. Or Furrible. 
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Dec 30, 2017 13:28
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You'll forgive me if I'm skeptical of Yoko Taro's definition of 'fun'  (  )
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Dec 30, 2017 13:35
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Hemingway To Go! posted:I hope one day Yoko gets to play LISA I'd be really, really interested in his thoughts on a game like that.
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Dec 30, 2017 17:17
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pulsor93 posted:Which is funny because I recall one article that said LiSA: The Painful could be considered a successor to Nier. Wow I never really put the 2 and 2 together. If you were to summarize the games in one sentence you'd get about the same thing along the lines of "An older man in post-apocalypse ruins everything trying to get his daughter back"
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Dec 30, 2017 17:39
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LonelyMudkip posted:This man is a goddamn treasure I 100% believe every word of this including the part about giving his interview from behind the person while holding a murder crowbar.
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Dec 30, 2017 17:51
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LonelyMudkip posted:This man is a goddamn treasure I’m still convinced that he is some form of alien genuinely trying to pretend to be human.
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Dec 30, 2017 18:48
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Malachite_Dragon posted:I think I can sum it up: Chrono Cross isn't a bad game. Chrono Cross came out during a point in my childhood where my parents didn't let me play video games, so I relied on buying player's guides from the store. I also missed the SNES era, so I heard of Chrono Cross first (thank goodness for Trigger being on Final Fantasy Chronicles later on). Those things led to me getting a different, more positive impression of the game than most people did. Even when I heard that fans of Trigger disliked it, I still wanted to give it a chance. That attitude lasted most of the way through the game, despite me not liking how most of the people in my party stopped being characters once they joined up with me, and realizing that the element grid is more of an inhibition than an innovation. The moment Serge opens the door in Chronopolis is when I gave up, because Masato Kato did, too. The Vosgian Beast posted:I want more RPGs where you get a bunch of dumb gimmicky rear end in a top hat characters at every single town to be in your party In LISA, every party member except the main character can die permanently from either story events or terrible luck in battles. It's pretty much guaranteed to happen to you at least once. Having an abundance of party members to choose from suddenly means a lot more when you have to consider who risks being ground into paste (or who you want to sacrifice on purpose).
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Dec 30, 2017 21:25
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Suikoden 2 and 5 are two of the best JRPGs you will ever play. Honestly I'd rate them as being equally good but 2 gets a slight edge due to having a better villain as well as the eighteen character boss fight others have mentioned. And if any one of those eighteen characters is underprepared and/or you don't balance your parties very well, you WILL get steamrolled. It's one of the most epic boss fights I've ever played. 1 is also a great game but not as good as 2 or 5. I definitely recommend playing it first since (as I said) it's a great game and, more importantly, you can import your 1 clear save data into 2. This has some impact on 2's storyline and lets you recruit 1's hero into your party, and he's an extremely broken character. 3 is a horrible game that some people really like for some reason. It's terrible for several reasons. The most important reason is that the battle system is terrible and unfun. Other reasons? The first half of the game consists of playing through the exact same content THREE TIMES but with three different main characters and very slight story differences each time. Then you hit the game's midpoint and get hit with possibly the worst plot twist of all time. One gigantic wet fart. It's an extreme anticlimax, completely invalidates everything you did in the first half, and just ruins the plot of the entire game in general. I have never seen any plot twist do that in ANY kind of media before, not just video games. I have never played 4; I've heeded all the warnings that it's a really bad game. There's a spinoff turn-based strategy game I've never played called Suikoden Tactics. I hear that it's pretty good but I wouldn't know. I'm honestly a little upset that 1 through 4 have been released as Classics on PSN but not 5. I really, really want to play 5 again but I don't want to pay the ridiculous Amazon prices. I'm also a little baffled that the series appears to be dead; the most recent game was on the PS2. I would LOVE a new sequel on the PS4. Edit: One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that in addition to traditional JRPG turn-based fights, you must also occasionally do mandatory turn-based strategy battles which consist of properly positioning your armies and executing the proper strategy/tactics. 2's strategy battles are extremely deep, complex, and well done. You'll also be advantaged/disadvantaged by your choice of combat strategist. I'm explaining this poorly because I don't really have the proper words to describe it. Just know that it's really awesome. ...! fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Dec 30, 2017 |
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Dec 30, 2017 23:45
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...! posted:I'm honestly a little upset that 1 through 4 have been released as Classics on PSN but not 5. I really, really want to play 5 again but I don't want to pay the ridiculous Amazon prices. I'm also a little baffled that the series appears to be dead; the most recent game was on the PS2. I would LOVE a new sequel on the PS4. I mean even ignoring the declining sales of the series, it's a Konami property. You don't need a lot of explanation for why it isn't getting new stuff anymore. Also there were Suikoden games for the DS and PSP but both sucked.
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Dec 31, 2017 00:08
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...! posted:3 is a horrible game that some people really like for some reason. It's terrible for several reasons. The most important reason is that the battle system is terrible and unfun. Other reasons? The first half of the game consists of playing through the exact same content THREE TIMES but with three different main characters and very slight story differences each time. Then you hit the game's midpoint and get hit with possibly the worst plot twist of all time. One gigantic wet fart. It's an extreme anticlimax, completely invalidates everything you did in the first half, and just ruins the plot of the entire game in general. I have never seen any plot twist do that in ANY kind of media before, not just video games. I'm gonna have to disagree vehemently, much as I'd rather not further derail the thread. 3's battle system was flawed, but it was still enjoyable and I appreciated the way it tried doing some new things. Going through the same areas was fine in SaGa Frontier and it's fine is Suikoden 3, because the story being told was compelling (though trying to recruit some people as early as possible was rough, with all the backtracking). I'm not even sure what you mean about your previous efforts being invalidated with the big twist, if you play Thomas' chapters (the best chapters), you see exactly what resulted from your actions up to that point, the answer being "made the entire second half of the game possible". If anything, the second half wound up feeling too short and abrupt due to the combined length of the previous storylines, you simply weren't given enough time to appreciate your army. It also gave much stronger characterization to a larger number of characters due to having so many different teams, though this had the cost of rendering most of the other Stars of Destiny largely irrelevant. 3 also had the best war battle system in the series, that required you to actually train up a lot of otherwise unused characters, though there were precious few battles. And there was the theater, a minigame to rival cooking battles for the best minigame in the franchise. It's a game that tried a lot of new stuff, and not all of it worked perfectly, but I appreciated the risk-taking. As for 5, the worst strategy battle system in the franchise (4's were laughably easy but the underlying mechanics were adequate), generally poor minigame offerings, plus a random encounter rate second only to 4 and long load times, make it hard to say it's strictly better than 3. It plays things a lot safer than 3, but only manages to be a little better (credit where it's due, the formation system was great), and I can't say I like it more, because at least 3 lets you put on plays. 2 is loving evergreen, though, I'll agree with you on that completely. And I'll say that 1's big issue was being pretty short and low on content, but that made it a nice little snack of a game that didn't require a huge time investment, which I liked. I actually played through the whole franchise this year (yes, even 4, with a cheat code to toggle random encounters), and I'm glad I finally did. Never had any Sony consoles growing up, so now and then I try to get familiar with RPGs I didn't get a chance to play. Like Drakengard! I mean, okay, probably not going to play Drankengard myself since Id sacrificed so much to do it for us, but I could.
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Dec 31, 2017 02:04
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Reminder: Today's Steam awards for best crafted character is up. http://store.steampowered.com/SteamAwards/ Contenders are 2B, Bayonetta, Lara Croft, Senua from Hellblade, and the bread from I am Bread. Sorry 2B but I went with the carbs.
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Dec 31, 2017 02:47
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Synthbuttrange posted:Reminder: Today's Steam awards for best crafted character is up. http://store.steampowered.com/SteamAwards/ the B actually stands for Breads so you played yourself
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Dec 31, 2017 02:50
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...! posted:Suikoden 2 and 5 are two of the best JRPGs you will ever play. Honestly I'd rate them as being equally good but 2 gets a slight edge due to having a better villain as well as the eighteen character boss fight others have mentioned. And if any one of those eighteen characters is underprepared and/or you don't balance your parties very well, you WILL get steamrolled. It's one of the most epic boss fights I've ever played. The last bit you have to do to get the best ending in 2 is also rather neat and almost feels like something Taro Yoko would do. There's a couple little bits actually in both of the first two games that mess with the mechanics a little. ...! posted:the most recent game was on the PS2. I would LOVE a new sequel on the PS4. The last one was actually on the DS, but it's best to forget it even exists. Konami used it to test the waters, it bombed because it was awful and that's why I doubt the series will ever continue.
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Dec 31, 2017 03:19
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Mokinokaro posted:The last one was actually on the DS, but it's best to forget it even exists. Konami used it to test the waters, it bombed because it was awful and that's why I doubt the series will ever continue. Actually the most recent was Japan-only and on the PSP, but it's basically all the same mistakes as the DS one (replacing everything good about Suikoden with basically a generic RPG that just has too many characters, making us circle back to the start of this derail because that just means it's ultimately really lovely Chrono Cross) so it doesn't matter. Of course, Konami, being Konami, did revisit the original series. As a pachinko machine. And I poo poo you not, it's based on Suikoden IV. gently caress Konami.
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Dec 31, 2017 03:40
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if it's any consolation, Konami is scrambling to get back into the game field after their attempt to put all their eggs into the Pachinko basket backfired hilariously with the Japanese government doing basically the exact opposite of what Konami was gearing up to take advantage of. "Please love us again  "
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Dec 31, 2017 03:51
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Its pretty sad either way. I work in gambling game dev, and Konami's games look terrible compared to most other companies. Which considering the low bar for fruit machine games, is certainly something.
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Dec 31, 2017 04:01
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I'd love to discuss Suikoden, but I used up my off-topic credit for that Steven Universe comment earlier.
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Dec 31, 2017 04:26
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Malachite_Dragon posted:if it's any consolation, Konami is scrambling to get back into the game field after their attempt to put all their eggs into the Pachinko basket backfired hilariously with the Japanese government doing basically the exact opposite of what Konami was gearing up to take advantage of. It's pretty great, especially with the people who insisted that Konami knew what it was doing because they were a big company, and therefore above all questioning.
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Dec 31, 2017 05:03
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Andyzero posted:I'd love to discuss Suikoden, but I used up my off-topic credit for that Steven Universe comment earlier. thanks for letting us know Watching Konami shoot itself in the foot is kind of bittersweet. On the one hand, gently caress Konami, on the other, Ys, Castlevania, and Suikoden.
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Dec 31, 2017 05:18
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Leraika posted:thanks for letting us know Yeah, it's easy to forget because they haven't made any prominent entries in any of their big series besides Metal Gear in ages, but they own an absolute boatload of classic IPs. Gradius (and Parodius!), Contra, Silent Hill, Tokimeki Memorial (of which there's an ongoing mega-LP that paints it in a pretty positive light, actually), Bemani, Zone of the Enders, plus a bunch they got from Hudsonsoft (including Bomberman and Bloody Roar).
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Dec 31, 2017 05:26
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Not so fun fact about suikoden 3 The reason the second half feels rushed and unfinished is because it is Aparently half (or over half) the dev team working in the game left halfway through it, writer included (Dont remember if they where fired, put in the pachinko mines or moved to another project) There was aparently even suposed to be a full 'villains story' Which is still in the game, omly in a very ruhed and truncated form (literraly a series of battles and cutscenes spread over the game)
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Dec 31, 2017 05:57
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Malachite_Dragon posted:if it's any consolation, Konami is scrambling to get back into the game field after their attempt to put all their eggs into the Pachinko basket backfired hilariously with the Japanese government doing basically the exact opposite of what Konami was gearing up to take advantage of. Did Japan make it illegal to wink-wink-nudge not really gamble?
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Dec 31, 2017 06:30
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EclecticTastes posted:Yeah, it's easy to forget because they haven't made any prominent entries in any of their big series besides Metal Gear in ages... Bemani,... Bomberman Everyone trots out that "THEY LEFT GAMES AND HAD TO SCRAMBLE BACK" chestnut but it's bullshit... They just stopped making the stuff you, personally, care about. Bemani never quit, continuing yearly releases, including a new worldwide rollout of DDR with online for the first time outside of Asia and IIDX on PC. Bomberman was a Switch launch title with a shitload of post-launch support. Their mobile/fitness divisions kept going unabated. PES hasn't missed a beat and has been broadening its market. There are multiple licensed titles... I could go on. BUT none of that is... I'm not even sure what license people would be crowing about. More Castlevania? You got a loving dire anime in the meantime. So on, so forth.
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Dec 31, 2017 06:30
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END ME SCOOB posted:Everyone trots out that "THEY LEFT GAMES AND HAD TO SCRAMBLE BACK" chestnut but it's bullshit... They just stopped making the stuff you, personally, care about. Bemani never quit, continuing yearly releases, including a new worldwide rollout of DDR with online for the first time outside of Asia and IIDX on PC. Bomberman was a Switch launch title with a shitload of post-launch support. Their mobile/fitness divisions kept going unabated. PES hasn't missed a beat and has been broadening its market. There are multiple licensed titles... I could go on. I'll grant that much, I think part of it is that sports and rhythm titles tend to be more periphery genres as concern the sort of people who bitch about specific publishers on the internet, and the Bomberman thing was extremely recent, quite possibly a response to the failure of their attempt to pivot to gambling. And, I listed a good half-dozen franchises besides Castlevania they could be producing more of. A new Silent Hill or actual Suikoden (instead of the stripped-down nothings they cranked out the last two times) would be really nice, but a major studio releasing a shooter like Contra or Gradius would also be a great change of pace (I imagine asking for a new Parodius would be going too far, much as I'd want it). One might claim that's unreasonable, but they used to be able to hit all their major franchises at least once per console generation up through the PS2 era. Speaking of publishers pulling themselves out of a bit of a quality slump, it's pretty great to see Square-Enix getting their act together with stuff like Nier: Automata, FFXV, and those oldschool-style games they've put on the Switch. The Switch stuff especially feels like a strong reminder of why everyone loved them in the first place.
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Dec 31, 2017 06:50
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wiegieman posted:Did Japan make it illegal to wink-wink-nudge not really gamble? The opposite, actually. Japan are legalizing proper casino gambling, so nobody has any reason to go to "wink-wink-nudge not-really-gambling" pachinko parlours anymore.
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Dec 31, 2017 07:05
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