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Phi230 posted:To me, the complete lack of effort in discovery look just highlights that it's a soulless corporate cash grab. It's not even appealing to nostalgia, it's just like your standard gritty sci-fi drama with trek trappings Would people be saying the show looks "low effort" if it was an original series? It looks pretty high-effort to me, except for the part where they forgot to make it look like pre-existing Trek.
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Jan 2, 2018 01:22
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Paradoxish posted:I don't really have any deeper answers, though. There's no real "point" in setting any story in any shared universe except... to have a shared universe, shared characters, etc. I'm not trying to make an argument for or against that, I'm just saying that if you're going to do it then there are perfectly valid approaches that fall between slavish adherence to continuity and complete reboots. You get the shared marketshare without having to earn it.
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Jan 2, 2018 01:48
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Would people be saying the show looks "low effort" if it was an original series? It looks pretty high-effort to me, except for the part where they forgot to make it look like pre-existing Trek. The visuals in-and-of-themselves are fine. The effort that is low is making it Trek. loving Enterprise which refused to even put Star Trek in the name was more recognizably Trek.
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Jan 2, 2018 01:48
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Would people be saying the show looks "low effort" if it was an original series? It looks pretty high-effort to me, except for the part where they forgot to make it look like pre-existing Trek. It has good production value but that doesn't mean it effectively captures the aesthetic/feel or whatever of the rest of the series. If Disco was original it'd still be worse than like The Expanse because it would lack a theme and be bad at worldbuildimg
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Jan 2, 2018 01:54
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 I'm kind of enjoying that this planet of morons who tried to use the United Earth probe's antimatter drive to power their entire society and then Chernobyled the whole planet concluded that this must just be Earth's plan to find and conquer the dumbest races in the galaxy by giving everyone an antimatter reactor and waiting to see who fucks it up.
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Jan 2, 2018 01:59
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I could have sworn Enterprise tried to retcon the Eugenics Wars to 2096 but now I can't find any reference to that, so my brain must have made it up
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Jan 2, 2018 02:19
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FuturePastNow posted:I could have sworn Enterprise tried to retcon the Eugenics Wars to 2096 but now I can't find any reference to that, so my brain must have made it up I think they just kind of mumbled around the time period because they'd already made drat certain people knew 9/11 happened in-universe and was somehow the watershed moment in international relations leading to a United Earth... five years after the end of a cataclysmic conflict between eugenic supermen controlling a quarter of all nations on Earth and eradicating entire habitable areas of the globe. Tough to walk that back without looking a bit sheepish. I just realized I can't remember what the inside of the Discovery looks like AT ALL, including the bridge. I went to google layouts and was reminded of something moronic courtesy of Discovery: BREATH PRINT. This is such a high-security area that our hero must use rogue skills to collect breath, a few-minute inconvenience for someone with literally no clearance whatsoever.
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Jan 2, 2018 02:31
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Phi230 posted:To me, the complete lack of effort in discovery look just highlights that it's a soulless corporate cash grab. It's not even appealing to nostalgia, it's just like your standard gritty sci-fi drama with trek trappings How can you call it a cash grab when they created a show based on a wildly popular and enduring franchise, and then made sure that it's only available on a streaming service that nobody was paying for that they themselves owned? My review of Discovery is that it's unwatchable because... well, I'm not signing up for that service, so I can't watch it, because gently caress that noise.
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Jan 2, 2018 02:42
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Watching USS Callister and so far it's just the TNG episode where Barclay was introduced
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Jan 2, 2018 03:55
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I predict it'll become Total Recall by the end
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Jan 2, 2018 03:56
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Jeb! Repetition posted:I predict it'll become Total Recall by the end More like I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream
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Jan 2, 2018 04:03
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Paradoxish posted:Because it's possible to take the same approach as Discovery, but execute it better? I've got a bunch of posts in this thread already whining about how lazy Discovery's look is, but that's because it feels like the designers barely even tried to tie it back to anything else. TNG's look would be comparatively trivial to modernize since it's already glass paneled touchscreens all the way down. I guess I'm just stupid and we're agreeing with each other. I was going to say no sci fi show on TV today would have the balls to use that much beige these days but...
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Jan 2, 2018 04:11
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How were the AIs on the holodeck NOT sentient when they could pass the turing test better than some members of the crew
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Jan 2, 2018 04:12
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FuturePastNow posted:I could have sworn Enterprise tried to retcon the Eugenics Wars to 2096 but now I can't find any reference to that, so my brain must have made it up One of the things they did after TOS was separate the Eugenics Wars and WWIII, but the only thing I can find that puts the Eugenic Wars later is from one of the DS9 episodes, where there's the line, " Two hundred years ago we tried to improve the species through DNA resequencing, and what did we get for our trouble? The Eugenics Wars". The writers said that wasn't a retcon so much as a goof they never caught, though.
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Jan 2, 2018 04:22
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Jeb! Repetition posted:How were the AIs on the holodeck NOT sentient when they could pass the turing test better than some members of the crew There's a Voyager episode where a hologram of the first officer is teaching a former Borg to play piano with feeling and heart rather than the flat technically flawless performances she is giving. Like, what? The computer is an art critic now? That's like the one thing in Star Trek that hewmons can do which artificial lifeforms can't understand. If the starship computer can do that why couldn't Data figure it out, and why isn't the computer sentient.
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Jan 2, 2018 04:57
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VitalSigns posted:Like, what? The computer is an art critic now? That's like the one thing in Star Trek that hewmons can do which artificial lifeforms can't understand. If the starship computer can do that why couldn't Data figure it out, and why isn't the computer sentient. What do you mean why couldn't Data figure it out, he did give art criticism on-screen.
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Jan 2, 2018 05:00
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Also the only difference between the AIs like Moriarty who they decided had rights, and the regular ones who didn't, was the former could make trouble for them. Which is way too realistic for Star Trek
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Jan 2, 2018 05:06
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I guess the one way they could get around this is if the ship's computer is considered sentient and has rights and it's just playing all the parts on the holodeck like an actor.
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Jan 2, 2018 05:08
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Jeb! Repetition posted:I guess the one way they could get around this is if the ship's computer is considered sentient and has rights and it's just playing all the parts on the holodeck like an actor. Yeah I bet ships can vote.
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Jan 2, 2018 05:13
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Jeb! Repetition posted:I guess the one way they could get around this is if the ship's computer is considered sentient and has rights and it's just playing all the parts on the holodeck like an actor. The ship's computer as an intelligent and helpful but fundamentally inhuman being in a way that extends beyond "beep boop paradox does not compute" would be cool and imaginative, so modern Star Trek won't do it.
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Jan 2, 2018 05:26
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But then it would be the ship's right to refuse to participate in any holodeck program, so if you got a prude ship that precludes 90% of holodeck programs
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Jan 2, 2018 05:27
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I don't recall anyone asking the ship's opinion when they set a self destruct sequence but maybe the ship is a low rank like ensign or yeoman or O'Brien
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Jan 2, 2018 05:29
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Jeb! Repetition posted:But then it would be the ship's right to refuse to participate in any holodeck program, so if you got a prude ship that precludes 90% of holodeck programs "We've seen a consistent uptick in transfer requests for leaving the USS Brigham Young for some reason"
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Jan 2, 2018 05:31
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And if you could ethically copy AIs, then only the horniest ones would get copied and it'd be just like biological natural selection. The more things change...
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Jan 2, 2018 05:31
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thexerox123 posted:What do you mean why couldn't Data figure it out, he did give art criticism on-screen. Yeah true, I also just remembered an episode where he blended the performance styles of several famous violinists in order to perform a piece and his friends pointed out this was a creative act and a very human thing to do. I guess what I mean is, those are used as indicators that Data is a sentient lifeform and not a sophisticated calculator, so it's weird that the Voyager computer can exceed this by actually teaching someone creative spontaneous play but it isn't sentient and neither is the program that's doing it.
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Jan 2, 2018 06:32
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Just wait till you meet Vic Fontaine in DS9 
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Jan 2, 2018 06:33
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WHY BONER NOW posted:Just wait till you meet Vic Fontaine in DS9 Vic avoids all those issues though
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Jan 2, 2018 06:47
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The DS9 crew treated Vic like he was a sentient being though. Like when the preprogrammed storyline was activated that was going to kill him off they weren't like "okay whatever we'll just download a new copy from Steam if we want you back" the crew saved him because of all the times he had helped them in the past. It was never specifically brought up like it was with Data and the Doctor, but unlike them the DS9 crew just acted like Vic was as human as any of them.
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Jan 2, 2018 07:05
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If I were making a new trek I'd set it 80 or so years on. In designing the tech, I'd assume most tech had plateau'd except specifically things that are an extension/exploration of current ongoing tech trends. So AR, drones, personal assistants etc. Then build an aesthetic of futuristic from there. Honestly, most of the conceptual work done for TNG still applies, but with less beige. Ships as long-term living spaces, omnipresent interfaces that fade into the background... but we just have better ideas of how to present it now. Also, to clean up the lingering issue from the 24th C shows, I'd establish a 'race' of holographic strong AI and treat them like any other Federation members. Make allusions that they grew out of the holoprograms of the 24th and that you're not allowed to just casually spin up a smart hologram these days on a whim because ethics. One of the biggest problems, really, would be that you'd kinda want CG in, like, every other shot in a very casual background way, just as how things work and how bridge crew use their stations and whatnot. Okudagrams wouldn't really cut the mustard anymore and we know 3D is everywhere, espeically if we're exploring AR trends. Maybe with motion tracking film tech it'd be viable to semi-automate the FX in a modern TV series without blowing the budget. (Oh man, I wonder if you could do inset-3D in real time. Pop a tracker on your camera, feed the angles back to the computer that controls the screens in the consoles, have them automatically show rotation as camera moves around to simulate 3D from the camera's perspective.) MikeJF fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Jan 2, 2018 |
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Jan 2, 2018 07:12
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I'd reboot and ditch 90+% of the holowank bullshit. And transporters would definitely be way clunkier too.
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Jan 2, 2018 07:22
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I'd reboot and ditch 90+% of the holowank bullshit. And transporters would definitely be way clunkier too. If I were rebooting, transporters would work by spatial displacement, not matter transference, and very easily jammable (as in every commbadge is always locally jamming until they get a handshake signal and/or the enemy dramatically crushes it). Replicators would be nanotech 3D printing and not capable of creating the more advanced technology. You have to have some holowank to follow up on exploring AR. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Jan 2, 2018 |
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Jan 2, 2018 07:24
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Renaissance Man wtf. I liked the concept, but this needed a few rewrites. Chakotay finds out Janeway is a fake and possibly a dangerous alien, yet he just confronts her, alone, without telling anybody, and he doesn't even take a weapon with him? And since when can you erect a dampening field around someone's quarters to stop their communication? And when they find out the imposter is the Doctor, then once again, they don't revoke any of his passwords. And why is he able to activate the Emergency Command Hologram protocols to gain total control of the ship, last time the ECH was activated Janeway had to enter her command codes. But now he can just take over the ship pretty much whenever? Even though he had already mutinied and endangered everyone's lives before? 
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Jan 2, 2018 07:44
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VitalSigns posted:I liked the concept, but this needed a few rewrites. Voyager in a nutshell.
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Jan 2, 2018 07:56
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It's kind of funny that future Admiral Janeway doesn't give two shits about saving Lieutenant Carey even though it would only require going back like two extra weeks, the final gently caress you to assistant chief engineer Carey, I guess he shoulda been a Maquis terrorist if he wanted respect. It's even funnier that the first thing Janeway does after being promoted to admiral is, like all Starfleet admirals, to immediately begin planning some massive and insane crime. Also wtf is an ambassador to the Delta Quadrant. How is Neelix supposed to be an ambassador to a region of space that takes half a century to cross, and how is he supposed to do that from some crap asteroid with a population of like 12 people and oh yeah which is completely cut off from everyone behind a shield and under siege by a hostile race that wants to mine it for minerals. Is this a serious post or did Janeway just finally figure out how to get rid of him without it being awkward.
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Jan 2, 2018 09:06
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VitalSigns posted:It's kind of funny that future Admiral Janeway doesn't give two shits about saving Lieutenant Carey even though it would only require going back like two extra weeks, the final gently caress you to assistant chief engineer Carey, I guess he shoulda been a Maquis terrorist if he wanted respect. The reason it makes no sense is it was a last minute addition to the script when they realized Neelix had no reason to go to Earth
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Jan 2, 2018 15:40
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VitalSigns posted:The DS9 crew treated Vic like he was a sentient being though. I might be mistaken but I actually do remember them discussing that first. But in any case the important part is that Vic himself doesn't act like he's anything more than a hologram. He knows he's programmed to do all the things he does and that's fine, let's do a song boys.
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Jan 2, 2018 15:51
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Kibayasu posted:I might be mistaken but I actually do remember them discussing that first. But in any case the important part is that Vic himself doesn't act like he's anything more than a hologram. He knows he's programmed to do all the things he does and that's fine, let's do a song boys. There's an exchange between Nog and O'brien in the episode where Vic helps Nog get over his leg injury: "Vic's matrix is a little different than your standard photokinetic hologram. He can turn himself off and if he doesn't want to appear he doesn't appear." "You mean he has free will?" "I'm an engineer, not a philosopher!" They pretty much drop it at that, though. During that episode Nog leaves him turned on for like a week or something and he says he prefers it, it's like living a real life. I think Nog eventually arranges it so he can stay on permanently. They definitely planted the seeds for something, but they never followed up on it. Honestly my beef with Vic is when someone comes in and says "I'm sad. Play that song I like" and Vic literally sings like the whole three minute song.
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Jan 2, 2018 16:02
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Lol even Janeway is unimpressed by Voyager's anticlimactic return home. She sees Earth and is just like "huh that's it" and the show agrees roll credits.
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Jan 2, 2018 16:32
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corn in the bible posted:The reason it makes no sense is it was a last minute addition to the script when they realized Neelix had no reason to go to Earth Hmmm, in this show full of explorers, and with the precedent that Neelix is fascinated by experiencing and trying new things outside the original tiny bubble his life would have been... why would he want to experience another quadrant of the galaxy replete with countless civilizations, entertainments, and cuisines? Why would he want to go home with his adoptive family of nearly a decade and receive a heroic welcome from people eager to hear and learn from him? Why indeed?
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Jan 2, 2018 16:52
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WHY BONER NOW posted:They definitely planted the seeds for something, but they never followed up on it. Honestly my beef with Vic is when someone comes in and says "I'm sad. Play that song I like" and Vic literally sings like the whole three minute song. Too bad his set looks like hot rear end
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Jan 2, 2018 16:53
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