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Improbable Lobster posted:So does F91 take place over a few days or a few months? It's not clear
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Jan 3, 2018 04:35
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AradoBalanga posted:I think F91 is supposed to take place between a few days at minimum and an entire week at max. I'm pretty sure that once they take over the colony there's a few month long timeskip between scenes. And then another before the final battle.
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Jan 3, 2018 04:54
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The fact that even time is this confusing says a lot about F91. At least it spawned Crossbone.
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Jan 3, 2018 04:58
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Which spawned the Crossbone sequels and basically gave Hasegawa his career, so it's not like it's all good. Then again, I was never that enamored of even the original Crossbone. It's okay, but the Crossbone design (and a few of the non-Gundam designs like the Batara) are really the best part of the whole thing.
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Jan 3, 2018 11:34
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tsob posted:Which spawned the Crossbone sequels and basically gave Hasegawa his career, so it's not like it's all good. Then again, I was never that enamored of even the original Crossbone. It's okay, but the Crossbone design (and a few of the non-Gundam designs like the Batara) are really the best part of the whole thing. The villains were weak as hell, too. At least the Phantom Gundam was kind of silly-cool.
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Jan 3, 2018 11:39
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Tobia was a decent lead, but a lot of the other cast were uninteresting. Or at least, I assume they were, because I can't remember any of the rest bar the one old pilot who used the Gun-Ball. And I only remember him for doing that. Even the returning cast from F91 were heavily changed, both in design and character. Seabook wasn't too bad, but Cecily and Zabine might as well be different people.
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Jan 3, 2018 11:58
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I had a good time reading Steel 7, but Id really like more F91 or pre-F91 timeframe.
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Jan 3, 2018 12:51
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tsob posted:Tobia was a decent lead, but a lot of the other cast were uninteresting. Or at least, I assume they were, because I can't remember any of the rest bar the one old pilot who used the Gun-Ball. And I only remember him for doing that. Even the returning cast from F91 were heavily changed, both in design and character. Seabook wasn't too bad, but Cecily and Zabine might as well be different people. That's honestly one of my biggest peeves with Crossbone. It uses the characters from F91 but they're so massively different to their brief appearances in F91 that I'm confused why they even use them instead of having their own cast.
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Jan 3, 2018 14:13
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The change in the personality of the characters who did return along with the sweeping changes to almost everything else (setting, plot, protagonists, antagonists, mechanical design and character design at the very least) make me sure that even the original Crossbone was far more Hasegawa than Tomino. If Tomino was involved it was on a pretty minor level as far as I can tell, and I've always found the idea he was mostly or entirely responsible for the writing or plot implausible because of those differences. I can't speak to whether the plot, themes or writing themselves fit within Tomino's normal style since I barely recall them but the actual macro portions of the manga don't make sense as a Tomino thing to me. tsob fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Jan 3, 2018 |
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Jan 3, 2018 14:22
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I started watching Victory Gundam. The first two episodes are really solid. I like the choice to start in media res, and the small band of resistance fighters feels pretty unique so far. Also holy poo poo is the bad guy suit design cool.
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Jan 5, 2018 00:10
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V Gundam has really good mobile suit design in terms of being cohesive. Not every suit in the show is a win(many of them are ugly as gently caress, actually), but the League Militaire and Zanscare both have really good, unique suit design styles. Zanscare in particular manages to have a rad, totally unique aesthetic that says "this is a Zanscare suit" without taking the lazy route and just aping Zeonic designs.
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Jan 5, 2018 04:16
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The bug eyes that narrow to slits are super unique and cool. Help! I think I really like Victory Gundam so far. It feels like an rather nihilistic exploration of some ideas also seen in Turn A Gundam so far (space power oppressing a much weaker earth populace, refugees scraping by, combine Shahkti and Üso and you kinda get Loran).
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Jan 5, 2018 04:22
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I feel like Turn A is lifting that more from Gundam X than Victory, if anything. It even uses Moon imagery in largely the same way.
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Jan 5, 2018 04:23
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I haven’t seen much of X, but Tomino wasn’t involved right? I would expect the writing themes to follow more of a through line from Victory or his non Gundam series.
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Jan 5, 2018 04:30
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I don't believe Tomino was directly involved in X, no. However the image of the Moon hanging in the sky being used to evoke how apocalyptic war hangs over Earth's past in both series to the point that the ancient Gundams unearthed in both have hugely destructive attacks directly associated with the moon is such an absurdly specific commonality that I would be surprised if it was somehow just a coincidence and not part of Tomino's attempt to comment on Gundam as a whole.
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Jan 5, 2018 04:38
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RillAkBea posted:From what I remember of it, the problem I have with the story is too much screen time is dedicated to the Gundam pilots, so a lot of the important political shifts happen off-screen and get very briefly explained in the introductions. If you missed the first few minutes or went to get a drink during the titles, you were screwed. Seriously, I love Ko Otani, and Wing is some of his best work. It's so good.
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Jan 5, 2018 04:56
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chiasaur11 posted:Looking at all this discussion, it's kind of interesting how IBO used almost all the excuses in the book. People keep saying they don't like IBO because it's the anti-Gundam and I'm like... you're not wrong, because it's missing a lot of by-the-book Gundam structure? But I feel like it's kind of also the ur-Gundam in how well it does all those things by doing them differently.
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Jan 5, 2018 05:09
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Raxivace posted:I feel like Turn A is lifting that more from Gundam X than Victory, if anything. It even uses Moon imagery in largely the same way. In most Super Robot Wars, X and Turn-A are a pair and D.O.M.E. is the keeper of the Dark History.
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Jan 5, 2018 06:57
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Victory is... well it's something. You eventually begin to feel Tomino's hatred for everything sometime around episode 10 I want to say. I mean, it's there from the start, but it definitely settles in by then.
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Jan 5, 2018 11:57
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Logicblade posted:Victory is... well it's something. You eventually begin to feel Tomino's hatred for everything sometime around episode 10 I want to say. I mean, it's there from the start, but it definitely settles in by then. And then it devolves into howling batshittery in the final ten episodes. Like, seriously, the first forty episodes of Victory are just kind of dull, with some comically heavy-handed, repetitive tragedy and some really cool bits. Then it goes insane.
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Jan 5, 2018 12:05
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https://twitter.com/dirtborg/status/948727387558068224
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Jan 5, 2018 22:16
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Victory never had any idea what it is or what it was trying to accomplish, or who would do what so you just get the most batshit characters doing the stupidest poo poo. It is easily the worst long UC series I've watched. WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO KASARELIAAAAAAAAAA (x20) it won't go away I swear to you. The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 23:13
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Victory is hot garbage and easily the worst gundam series.
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Jan 6, 2018 01:00
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Tomino: "Don't watch this it's garbage" Me: "Okay."
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Jan 6, 2018 01:03
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RevolverDivider posted:Victory is hot garbage and easily the worst gundam series. Even with Age, Superior Defenders, and Destiny in the math? Worst, I can see, but easily seems a bit more of a stretch.
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Jan 6, 2018 01:03
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RevolverDivider posted:Victory is hot garbage and easily the worst gundam series. I wouldn’t say ‘easily’. I mean, AGE exists. At least Victory has better action and more consistently good suit designs. It’s prettier than the SEEDs, too (in that it’s not actively offensive to the eyeballs).
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Jan 6, 2018 01:04
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RevolverDivider posted:Victory is hot garbage and easily the worst gundam series. i'll take victory over seed any day
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Jan 6, 2018 01:08
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Victory has a boatload of problems but it at very least has better choreography in combat than Gundam Age does.
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Jan 6, 2018 01:09
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RevolverDivider posted:Victory is hot garbage and easily the worst gundam series. We live in a world with AGE and Destiny and that's not even counting the boatload of horrible OVAs and movies like IGLOO and G-Savior.
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Jan 6, 2018 01:17
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Horrible seems like an over-reaction for G-Savior. It's not good, but it's not bad either; it's just there. Boring is about it's worst offense rather than being actively terrible. My least favorites would be either AGE or Try, and I can't honestly decide which is worse. Both of them are mostly kind of dull to watch despite the preponderance of things the staff obviously want you to think are cool, but unlike G-Savior they both get more insulting the more you think about them.
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Jan 6, 2018 01:36
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Victory is not worse than Destiny, but only because Destiny is such an enormous pile of fanwanking/director's wet dream poo poo. Thats why I'd categorize it as the worst long run UC series by a wide margin. In the AU I think it's got some competition.
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Jan 6, 2018 02:00
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I must be one of the few here who actually enjoyed Victory Gundam. The rate of death got kind of silly and went well beyond the point where it held any emotion in some cases, there was a good bit of weird gender commentary in the show and some plain odd stuff but I think it nailed the feeling of a desperate band of comrades better than any other show, even the Ramba Ral stretch of 0079, there were some good characters despite the bad ones, I loved some of the mechanical design and choroegraphy and Uso's arc and growth is nice to watch. It seems to be a waning opinion of late, but ZZ is the one I struggled with in UC and couldn't make it more than a few episodes in to before I just had to let it go. Coming off Zeta's finale didn't help I suppose, but the tone of the show didn't sit with me much as it suits some.
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Jan 6, 2018 02:09
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Even its' harshest critics have to admit that Victory had its' moments
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Jan 6, 2018 02:11
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Victory is so strange because it's so weird, does so much stuff wrong, and the characters are so stupid... But even then, I can still say that it's significantly better than AGE or Destiny. Like, even the most batshit insane people out of Zanscare could still make a good portion of the Destiny cast look like MENSA candidates
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Jan 6, 2018 02:16
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I don't think Victory has a single interesting idea in its 50+ episode runtime whereas I can at least see what Destiny and AGE were going for even if the execution was technically less competent and completely fell apart at the end. EDIT: "Single" is perhaps exaggerating a bit but there's not a whole lot going on in that show for how loving needlessly long it is, even by Gundam standards. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 02:17
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Victory's fascination with the guillotine and giant motorcycle battleships was definitely unique. The actual choreography of the fights were usually pretty competent, if not having some pretty unique moments (like Uso using the V2 who in turn uses the top half of the regular Victory's beam saber to beat someone). Plus, the Reinforce Jr.'s last moment might as well redeem the show.
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Jan 6, 2018 02:23
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Victory was a weird, wild ride. I don't regret watching it, though.
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Jan 6, 2018 02:29
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Uso has a growth arc in Victory? Could have fooled me. ZZ is very hard to get into and suffers from the fact that it refound its Zeta pace/feeling too late in the production cycle. The last 1/3rd of ZZ is every bit as good as Zeta it just has 20 something episodes in front of it that are some of the worst Gundam things (toy plugs, suits of the week, a meandering plot that doesn't seem to matter until it does), but the run down to the finale over the last 13-15 episodes is really really good and redeeming for the show as a whole to me. Victory has one redeeming quality and it's that it murdered folks at a tremendous rate in some really creative and crazy ways. Oh someone that you care about? Just wait they'll meet some gruesome spectacle of a death rest assured. The bikini suicide squad yikes yall. Also a check in on Gundam Wing; its still super fun, the animation might be frequently repeated but its still so pretty that I don't care so much. I don't find it hard to follow, but there are many moving pieces and sudden character shifts that don't seem earned so much as well this could be a thing. Plus holy crap never has a self destruct mechanism been overplayed in the first half of a show. Une takes off glasses & becomes a separate person? Any reason for that? Nope? Okay. The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 02:35
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The Bikini Squad is one of those things where I think it's like, a failure to communicate to the audience. In the series it's very clearly supposed to be insane. Uso's reaction to it is "What the poo poo is going on?" and it fails and they all die. Katejina is insane, the Zanscare Empire is insane. After the unimaginable horror of the Universal Century the only people willing to start a war are literally insane. That's all very intentional. But I think a lot of people watching it just think "lol what a crazy show"
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Jan 6, 2018 02:42
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Guy Goodbody posted:The Bikini Squad is one of those things where I think it's like, a failure to communicate to the audience. In the series it's very clearly supposed to be insane. Uso's reaction to it is "What the poo poo is going on?" and it fails and they all die. Katejina is insane, the Zanscare Empire is insane. After the unimaginable horror of the Universal Century the only people willing to start a war are literally insane. That's all very intentional. But I think a lot of people watching it just think "lol what a crazy show" I've always pretended somehow Katejina wound up on the moon and her incoherent ramblings about the events of Zanscare get passed down eventually to Gym Ghingham's ears.
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Jan 6, 2018 03:10
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