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Autism Sneaks posted:Jane Foster not eating a magical golden apple panacea or taking a pill that cures cancer freely available at every Shi'ar clinic is loving stupid and contrived, yes, but OTOH Aaron's whole shtick is "stuff that sounds cool but doesn't hold up to the briefest moment of scrutiny" so you just gotta take the good with the bad Yeah, I can suspend my disbelief on that, but someone with a personal experience with that sort of thing would not like it at all. I just wonder how it could have been less problematic and stuff. Like "the destructive power of Mjolnir negates any attempts to cure her cancer, magic or science or otherwise" instead of "lol I don't want a cure because I BELIEVE IN HUMAN MEDICINE even if becoming Thor literally reverses the results of my chemotherapy"
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Jan 5, 2018 08:31
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 03:11 |
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Jane Foster's chemo being reversed by the hammer never made sense anyway because if it's doing that then the hammer should also reverse the metastasizing cells and restore her health since her healthy cells are the original state. The cancer bit makes zero sense IMO.
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Jan 5, 2018 08:53
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HIJK posted:Jane Foster's chemo being reversed by the hammer never made sense anyway because if it's doing that then the hammer should also reverse the metastasizing cells and restore her health since her healthy cells are the original state. I'm not a doctor but I thought cancer was your body making bad cells,so that's part of your body and chemo is just dumping poison into your body and it working means that it kills the bad cell more than the good one, so Mjornir getting rid of the chemo and not the cancer made as much sense as any other comic book science.
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Jan 5, 2018 09:02
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Schneider Heim posted:I like Jane Foster Thor, but I read a post in this thread from someone (who either has a terminal illness or is close to someone who has) that her thing with refusing to have her cancer treated with magic is problematic, something to do with "if there was a miracle cure for my terminal condition I'd take totally take it even if it had consequences because the alternative is dying painfully and proudly soldiering on without it is downright stupid". My father's MND has now degenerated to the point where he's gasping for breath and can barely move a single hand. When we went to spend time with him on new years and we said "Surprise" he asked if there was a cure and he was going to live. So yeah, gently caress every single writer who decides to have a character "Bravely face their end with dignity and not wanting a cure." gently caress that nonsense as hard as you can. The only people who can write that have NEVER loving suffered, they have never had to watch the pain and despair in their family, they've never had to hide their tears when their loved one's hopelessness resurges and they fear death. They never ever could have loving dealt with that because if they had they could never write so loving blase about. Jane Foster refusing a cure because she doesn't want something readily available to everyone is not inspiring its loving insulting.
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Jan 5, 2018 09:09
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Sorry for the double post but it's a different thought about FosThor. She doesn't want to abandon her mortality and if she takes a magic cure for her cancer what's to stop her from taking another magic cure for whatever next ailment happens. She appreciates life being finite. Yes it's an arbitrary distinction between normal earth medicine and Asgard techno-science, but sometimes you need to make an arbitrary distinction to define yourself.
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Jan 5, 2018 09:10
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Why doesnt she make Mjolnir really tiny and pow punch all the cancer cells with it
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Jan 5, 2018 09:28
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Schneider Heim posted:Yeah, I can suspend my disbelief on that, but someone with a personal experience with that sort of thing would not like it at all. I just wonder how it could have been less problematic and stuff. Like "the destructive power of Mjolnir negates any attempts to cure her cancer, magic or science or otherwise" instead of "lol I don't want a cure because I BELIEVE IN HUMAN MEDICINE even if becoming Thor literally reverses the results of my chemotherapy" It's a central conceit of the character and the way Aaron's interpretation works. He decided to make a character in his run address a real-world issue that is supremely unrepresented in comics books, namely life threatening/terminal illness, and in order to do so he had to gin up a bunch of basically bullshit reasons why she didn't just snap her fingers and cure it instantly. He found one that worked in fiction and with the character he had established and then mined that plot point for really good character and emotional development that revitalized a book that was sort of stalling creatively. It's also a way to juxtapose a Vocational Irony narrative on the character.
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Jan 5, 2018 09:31
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Synthbuttrange posted:Why doesnt she make Mjolnir really tiny and pow punch all the cancer cells with it Same reason Wakanda cured cancer with human science years ago and still hasn't told anyone else.
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Jan 5, 2018 09:34
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Skwirl posted:Sorry for the double post but it's a different thought about FosThor. She doesn't want to abandon her mortality and if she takes a magic cure for her cancer what's to stop her from taking another magic cure for whatever next ailment happens. She appreciates life being finite. Yes it's an arbitrary distinction between normal earth medicine and Asgard techno-science, but sometimes you need to make an arbitrary distinction to define yourself. Also a big point of her character is that she's a doctor and appreciates scientific or earth based solutions over literally magical ones, which is almost certainly a fake comics analogy to Jehovah's Witnesses and other religions that forbid specific medical treatments, especially considering Aaron's overall focus through his books on the trappings of religion and how they affect culture. You might call Jane Foster stupid to refuse a magic instantaneous cancer cure, but if she took it it'd make for a far less interesting book and it's no less stupid than JWs refusing blood transfusions, but both groups are entitled to their arbitrary belief systems.
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Jan 5, 2018 09:38
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It would only make for a less interesting book if you are too much of a dumb hack to write a woman who has been part of the series since its inception as the hero without them literally dying of cancer. You're literally the BSS equivalent of SupermechaGodzilla (right now, idc enough to say if this is a pattern), stating the obvious and making Subtext 101 observations but presenting them as somehow self-justifying the auter's vision, like so long as that is internally consistent, drat the logical consistency of the narrative.
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Jan 5, 2018 09:59
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I love how SMG is the loving boogeyman on every other subforum.
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Jan 5, 2018 10:04
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if I could whip a thread into a furor by making the most banal observations but in the most obsequious cum impenetrable way I could I would never stop doing it either
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Jan 5, 2018 10:13
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Autism Sneaks posted:if I could whip a thread into a furor by making the most banal observations but in the most obsequious cum impenetrable way I could I would never stop doing it either He gets a free pass for life for pointing out how awesome the last two DTV Universal Soldier movies are.
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Jan 5, 2018 10:26
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Also a big point of her character is that she's a doctor and appreciates scientific or earth based solutions over literally magical ones, which is almost certainly a fake comics analogy to Jehovah's Witnesses and other religions that forbid specific medical treatments, especially considering Aaron's overall focus through his books on the trappings of religion and how they affect culture. You might call Jane Foster stupid to refuse a magic instantaneous cancer cure, but if she took it it'd make for a far less interesting book and it's no less stupid than JWs refusing blood transfusions, but both groups are entitled to their arbitrary belief systems. I know that the curmudgeony science person who gets all ruffled and irritated at the power of magic has become pretty tropey for comic book universes but, within the context of a universe where magic provably, objectively exists, that sort of characterization can only go so far before it becomes caricaturization instead. It doesn't matter if the Asgardian cure for cancer is "magical" or not, it's still an empirically-effective treatment for Jane's life-ending illness and her saying "No, I'm just going to draw an arbitrary line in the sand about this" is her acting like the opposite of a scientist and a doctor. Science is not a religion and scientists don't cling to some abstract ideal of science with stubborn fervor as if it's any kind of god to be idolized. That's kind of the point. And then this situation gets even more verklempt because it's not as if Jane is all that fixated on her Earth medicine in opposition to Asgardian medicine; no, she repeatedly nullifies her own hospital's chemotherapy so it's really not as if she's all that reverential about the power of human science, either. So she won't use her own people's medicine to fix herself because she feels like she has to be Thor, but she also won't use Thor's people's medicine to fix herself so that she can be Thor and be healthy because it's not her own people's medicine? Like...look, I like this series nonetheless and it'll take a whole lot more than this for me to dislike a book, but I can absolutely understand why people would think this particular detail is kinda absurd and problematic. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 10:37
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That's why I'm going with the whole Jane doesn't want to be immortal theory. It's not that she wants to die of cancer, she values being human in addition to being Thor and the cancer is part of being human.
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Jan 5, 2018 10:57
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I'm with Jane, humanity is a cancer
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Jan 5, 2018 10:59
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It wasn't really a choice to nullify the treatments when elves and poo poo die without a Thor to help. The cancer comes back where she left it, so it really is eventually either become Thor 100% or die, and as a human and doctor who cant give every other sufferer her solution, her feelings make perfect sense. Is the happy ending curing cancer on Earth with magic? Her just going out as an inspiring tragic figure's probably a better idea. edit: And if she is going to end up dying by choice, Aaron probably has a pro voluntary-end-of-life/suffering message, but I'm sure it stops short of him feeling like terminally ill people should all abandon hope or anything. ee: If the whole problem is a comic exploiting people's real problems for drama, ah well. She's undeniably a unique and uniquely strong character in comics because of it. I have no idea if depowered Jane actually makes any sick lil' kids feel important or at least normal, but I'd like to think so 
Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 11:21
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I'd have made it so it's some weird obscure thing that Asgardian magic can't affect or what-have-you, have the Asgardians be aghast at this carefully calculated poisoning regime even if it does work. At least she doesn't have radioactive blood or something.
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Jan 5, 2018 11:45
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Skwirl posted:Same reason Wakanda cured cancer with human science years ago and still hasn't told anyone else. This was also the point of the main villains in Planetary, and a pretty solid illustration of the problem with “smart characters” whenever authors indulge in them too much. Like in Hickman’s run he had Stark building a loving Dyson Sphere but nobody’s put a dent into HIV or cancer.
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Jan 5, 2018 13:32
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Look guys we've discussed this, the only way you can get a cancer cure is to be Wakandan or deliver the Fantastic Four's mail.
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Jan 5, 2018 13:49
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Nessus posted:I'd have made it so it's some weird obscure thing that Asgardian magic can't affect or what-have-you, have the Asgardians be aghast at this carefully calculated poisoning regime even if it does work. At least she doesn't have radioactive blood or something. Just say she got the Kree cancer that killed Mar-Vell
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Jan 5, 2018 14:41
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Lurdiak posted:I just don't think you could ever keep Miles' momentum as a character without the context of being in the Ultimate Universe, heir to the legacy of the only Spider-man of that world. That's like his entire hook. you totally could. what killed miles' momentum was that his own book wants to focus on everything except him and he got stuck in the mire of civil war 2
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Jan 5, 2018 15:15
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Miles also didn't wind up killing Captain America, either. Honestly, had he been responsible for killing Captain Nazi I would not have been the least bit disappointed.
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Jan 5, 2018 16:46
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Marvel editorial is so well thought out they had Ulysses be so super prescient he literally becomes a celestial at the end of one event and then is completely negated in the next I also enjoyed seeing Ewing ignore his existence entirely in the ultimates books
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Jan 5, 2018 19:45
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So what's the current enthusiasm for anything involving Inhumans these days? Now that Marvel has Xmen movie rights back, are they gonna just get pushed back into the idea box now that Wolverine can be used again or do they actually have enough presence during the Xmen lapse that all the current Inhumans on earth, if I remember right, are gonna stay inhuman and not morph into mutants?
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Jan 5, 2018 20:28
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There's barely been any Inhumans books published in awhile, as far as I'm aware. Black Bolt and Ms. Marvel are about it, and neither are really Inhumans books so much as books starring Inhumans if that makes sense.
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Jan 5, 2018 20:33
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Endless Mike posted:There's barely been any Inhumans books published in awhile, as far as I'm aware. Black Bolt and Ms. Marvel are about it, and neither are really Inhumans books so much as books starring Inhumans if that makes sense. There was also Royals but that is canceled so drat hard.
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Jan 5, 2018 20:34
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Marvel offices: What's an inhuman? I've never heard of this, you must be making that up quickly ducks into nearest closet
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Jan 5, 2018 20:39
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Even at its zenith Inhumans had like five books, total, and that was counting stuff like Karnak and Ms. Marvel. They were never trying to be pushed over X-Men, at their most popularly pushed by Marvel they still had less books than the number that had Wolverine in them. Like seriously the meme that the Inhumans were drowning out the X-Men was just that, a meme. It was never, ever, supported by the reality of there being like three different Wolverine solos by itself, or three different Deadpool solos, not counting the literal dozen or so comics with X in the name.
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Jan 5, 2018 20:42
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I feel like defending Nick Spencer/Secret Empire/Marvel in general is incredibly risky lest someone accuse you of loving them and wanting to kiss them because they are perfect but:site posted:Marvel editorial is so well thought out they had Ulysses be so super prescient he literally becomes a celestial at the end of one event and then is completely negated in the next Why Ulysses couldn't foresee this or why Nazsteve who was established as Ready To Die At Miles Morales's Hands As Fated To Become a Glorious Martyr (sub?)consciously wished to not die can be explained by Nick Spencer being a lovely writer, but Marvel editorial was well thought out enough that both the "Miles Kills Cap" and "Hulk Destroys Everyone" visions in CWII totally did happen in Secret Empire. Also yeah in terms of "let's pretend Inhumans never existed lol" March 2018 solicitations have: Black Bolt's series still ongoing Ms. Marvel's series still ongoing Moon Girl's series still ongoing Monsters Unleashed somehow still ongoing and crossing over with Moon Girl (Kid Kaiju is also an Inhuman though I do not blame anyone for forgetting that) A Lockjaw mini-series Multiple Inhumans in the Avengers weekly event Much like the declarations that Miles and Ironheart and Amadeus Cho and everyone else are going to be sealed in a vault and never mentioned ever again until Tom Brevoort is buried in Ike Perlmutter's crypt, it seems a little premature to claim the Inhumans have disappeared, but I cannot peer into the soul and mind of Marvel's editorial staff the way some of you can. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 20:57
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I must admit to having already forgotten that dumb cop out
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Jan 5, 2018 21:03
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site posted:I must admit to having already forgotten that dumb cop out
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Jan 5, 2018 21:06
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Nobody's blindfold fell off during a blindfold match at Marvel wait I think I've killed this analogy
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Jan 5, 2018 21:39
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Okay those guardians issues were good i guess i shouldn't have slept on all new Is eve from the secret wars infinity gauntlet mini?
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Jan 5, 2018 22:03
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Edge & Christian posted:but I cannot peer into the soul and mind of Marvel's editorial staff the way some of you can. It's both a blessing and a curse.
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Jan 5, 2018 22:26
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Even at its zenith Inhumans had like five books, total, and that was counting stuff like Karnak and Ms. Marvel. They were never trying to be pushed over X-Men, at their most popularly pushed by Marvel they still had less books than the number that had Wolverine in them. K, I just didn't know how bad apparently the Inhumans experiment was and if they actually had any sort of staying power before the Xmen roll back into being freaking everywhere all over again. I just assumed that the comics were still a little barren of mutants because if no movie rights, why use them?
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Jan 5, 2018 23:28
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The books centered on individual inhumans (black bolt, ms marvel, moon girl) are actually pretty good I hope lockjaw is fun
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Jan 5, 2018 23:40
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Royals was good. The last arc with Rodriguez and Bellaire art and big crazy robots especially.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:50
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site posted:Okay those guardians issues were good i guess i shouldn't have slept on all new Marvel wikia says she first appeared in #147 just recently. Anything to read to catch up on this besides All New GOTG 1-12, Annual #1, and the renamed GOTG 146-150? I left off when Bendis quit.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:50
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i guess wikia doesn't count the secret wars mini as being the same person but it's a version of her http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Eve_Bakian_(Earth-94241)
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Jan 5, 2018 23:58
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