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McCloud posted:I will say I do find it odd how people think Wonder Woman is a more optimistic and happier movie despite that she assassinates a General in cold blood, murders soldiers in a crazed frenzy, and comes to the conclusion that Ares was right and that we are savage monsters that don't deserve her, but she'll fight for us anyways, but you snap one neck and you're a cynical randian ubermench. Poor Clark. They're nazis. Eventually.
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Jan 8, 2018 19:39
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McCloud posted:
The reading's further confounded by my previous point of martha kent's line to clark. It's implied that clark's been doing this for a while as supes, but she' still telling him you don't owe the world a thing and is neutral at best as to whether he should continue helping people as superman. How could that not be seen as a misstep for the alien being who could wipe out the entire planet? Monaghan fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jan 8, 2018 |
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Jan 8, 2018 19:42
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Monaghan posted:The problem with this reading is that it's not supported by the actual events in the story. The kents never say- make sure you are ready, or even encourage clark to help people. They actively encourage him not do anything. It's only upon meeting Jor-el that he decides to become superman. There's never any hint that the kents think that one day he'll be ready to superman. clark himself even says that his father thought that if the world found out about him, they would never accept him. Thats what the Kents have left as their lesson to Clark. If they had changed the Kents to be more of what was in the Revees movies, I think MoS would have been much better. Have the Dad die of a heart attack like in the first movie. That was a huge lesson to Clark, that his power can't save everyone for anything. His parents didn't want him to use his power yet either, but they didn't say he might want to let a bus of kids die to hide them. badjohny fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jan 8, 2018 |
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Jan 8, 2018 19:46
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Aphrodite posted:They're nazis. I'm conflicted. I approve of punching nazis. But do I approve of killing pre-nazis, or nazi-seeds, if you will? Hm. Monaghan posted:The problem with this reading is that it's not supported by the actual events in the story. The kents never say- make sure you are ready, or even encourage clark to help people. They actively encourage him not do anything. It's only upon meeting Jor-el that he decides to become superman. There's never any hint that the kents think that one day he'll be ready to superman. With respect, Pa Kent says multiple times that Clark will have to decide what kind of person he wants to become, and "to make a choice, of whether to stand up proud in front of the human race, or not". It's clear to me at least that he knows that Clark is destined for greatness, and he's trying to impress upon him that he needs to use his gifts responsibly. And in the end, Pa Kent led by example by giving up his life Do they tell him to put on a cape and save people? No. Monaghan posted:The reading's further confounded by my previous point of martha kent's line to clark. It's implied that clark's been doing this for a while as supes, but she' still telling him you don't owe the world a thing and is neutral at best of him helping people as superman. How could that not be seen as a misstep for the alien being who could wipe out the entire planet? Well at that point he was an adult, so him snapping and murdering everyone was unlikely. And what she's saying is that if he wants to save people that's great, do it! But don't do it because of guilt or because you feel obliged to, do it because you want to. And helping people does make him happy, it's all that other bullshit that comes with it he doesn't like, like the deifying thing.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:05
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McCloud posted:I'm conflicted. I approve of punching nazis. But do I approve of killing pre-nazis, or nazi-seeds, if you will? Hm. It's no different than killing baby Hitler.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:08
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badjohny posted:That was a huge lesson to Clark, that his power can't save everyone for anything. And then he solidly refutes that notion in the end by literally turning back time to save Lois because “gently caress you, I’m Superman, I can save everyone!” which I totally love. But, uh-oh, that’s a power fantasy, guess that means I’m a big dumb baby who can’t understand movies!
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Jan 8, 2018 20:09
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McCloud posted:That was clearly a one-time thing, considering the ship imploded into the phantom zone. Not an option for detaining Zod. It really bugs me when people give narrative explanations in response to thematic criticisms. The question isn't "why didn't Superman imprison Zod in the phantom zone", but "why did the writer's choose to take all other options off the table except killing Zod." It's not like they where beholden to real world physics. The phantom zone, and the bullshit science behind it, doesn't exist. They could have easily had the mechanism for sending the army back be usable more than once. But they wanted Superman to snap a guy's neck, so they didn't. The question is, do these decisions make the movie better? Many say no, and have explained why repeatedly.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:44
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Well duh, of course the situation with Zod was contrived, but this wasn't a narrative explanation for a thematic criticism, this was a narrative explanation for a narrative question.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:51
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Zod deserved to have his neck snapped and I'm glad Superman did it.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:54
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I love living in a world where thanks to one guy anybody who wants to talk about superhero movies has to accept that they'll be trapped forever rehashing arguments from 2012 and the only possible way to stop it would be to straight up ban any discussion of an entire company's characters and movies
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Jan 8, 2018 21:00
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Well PDR, what do you want to discuss?
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Jan 8, 2018 21:00
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https://twitter.com/theblackpanther/status/950411790608949248 Might be some more Kendrick Lamar BP music or something, someone who watches that poo poo report back
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Jan 8, 2018 21:05
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I watched Justice League last weekend, becuase it was in the cheap theaters and my girlfriend and I had nothing better to do, and a quick question: Why did Steppenwolf wait so long before coming to earth? Some character mentioned that he was coming because superman was dead. But the first battle that he lost took place thousands of years ago. What was stopping him from coming back at any time prior to superman coming to earth? Also it was pretty hilarious how superman is clearly like way better than the entire league. No point in having the league (except for cyborg I guess,) when supes is around.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:16
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The only complaint I have about Black Panther is that I don't like the new costume as much as the Civil War one.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:17
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I must have a severe case of goonblindness because the only time I noticed a costume changed from movie to movie was Cap from Avengers to Winter Soldier.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:24
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 Civil War on the right, Black Panther on the left.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:29
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Monaghan posted:I watched Justice League last weekend, becuase it was in the cheap theaters and my girlfriend and I had nothing better to do, and a quick question: Why did Steppenwolf wait so long before coming to earth? Some character mentioned that he was coming because superman was dead. But the first battle that he lost took place thousands of years ago. What was stopping him from coming back at any time prior to superman coming to earth? Lex rang the proverbial bell in BvS. He started talking to Steppenwolf, and he presumably found out that the Lanterns and Gods were dead or broken, and no real force to oppose him. And yes, it's super dumb that Superman clowned on the league like that.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:29
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Shageletic posted:https://twitter.com/theblackpanther/status/950411790608949248 I shall 😉 Aphrodite posted:
Dope af.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:30
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I wonder if the new costume is slightly more comfortable, I remember reading that the civil war costume is absolutely brutal to wear.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:31
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Inkspot posted:Anyone see Guardians? I’m thinking about marathoning some non-US superhero films and as much as I like The Return of Captain Invincible and Zebraman, I don’t think I can sit through either of them again. Oh yes I did. It is amazingly awful in the weirdest ways. Some of the visuals are fantastic, but the pacing and direction are absolute poo poo.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:33
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The helmet looks fine, but the new bodysuit looks a bit... generic? In the end they’re both just black under armour, but the CW suit has a more interesting geometric pattern going on, versus the general sculpted musculature on the new one.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:34
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Tchalla doesn't need a suit designed around his abs, I'm cool with the bp version E: oh i got it reversed. Welp site fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jan 8, 2018 |
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Jan 8, 2018 21:35
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It does look a whole lot more Batman-ey than the first one.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:35
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The helmet looks fine, but the new bodysuit looks a bit... generic? In the end they’re both just black under armour, but the CW suit has a more interesting geometric pattern going on, versus the general sculpted musculature on the new one. I don't hate the new costume, it's just that the CW suit is one of my favorite live action super hero costumes.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:43
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McCloud posted:With respect, Pa Kent says multiple times that Clark will have to decide what kind of person he wants to become, and "to make a choice, of whether to stand up proud in front of the human race, or not". When Clark tried to make a choice, Jonathan stopped him. Shageletic posted:https://twitter.com/theblackpanther/status/950411790608949248 Well I don't know what the CFP is, but I guess I'll have to tune into it.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:51
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purple death ray posted:I love living in a world where thanks to one guy anybody who wants to talk about superhero movies has to accept that they'll be trapped forever rehashing arguments from 2012 and the only possible way to stop it would be to straight up ban any discussion of an entire company's characters and movies I'm extremely glad of it, it's what ya'll deserve
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Jan 8, 2018 21:53
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Okay thanks.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:57
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SonicRulez posted:When Clark tried to make a choice, Jonathan stopped him. When he was a kid and a dumb teen. Just before the tornado he was saying he should go play college football, that's how he was gonna come out to the world.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:59
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Shageletic posted:https://twitter.com/theblackpanther/status/950411790608949248 
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Jan 8, 2018 22:05
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McCloud posted:Well PDR, what do you want to discuss? I ain't want to talk about poo poo, I'm unbookmarking this thread. I don't need this poo poo in my life. Yall have fun.
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Jan 8, 2018 22:25
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Personally I'd rather talk to Purple Death Ray about nothing than have an argument that amounts to nothing with McLoud.
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Jan 8, 2018 22:52
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Al Borland Corp. posted:When he was a kid and a dumb teen. Just before the tornado he was saying he should go play college football, that's how he was gonna come out to the world. Hey, I found the clip where Pa Kent talks about letting the children drown. I see where he says “maybe” but the part you keep talking about where he backpedals to “I don’t know” doesn’t seem to be in there? I will say this about BvS though, using a voice modulator for the Batman voice was the right call. I think Arrow might have done it first, but I think I liked the way it sounded in Snyder’s film more. So there’s some praise.
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Jan 8, 2018 23:07
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Al Borland Corp. posted:When he was a kid and a dumb teen. Just before the tornado he was saying he should go play college football, that's how he was gonna come out to the world. It might've been better if MoS did have Clark say that he wanted to use his powers for super(  )ficial gains, because then Jonathan's lessons of restraint and caution might've come across more pertinent and crucial. As it stands, what we end up getting is that Clark really wants to go help the world and Jonathan is all "gently caress that!"
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Jan 8, 2018 23:28
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Make I'm conflating it with Smallville
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Jan 8, 2018 23:29
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Someone saying "maybe" in that context is saying "I don't know". If Kent knew it wouldn't be a maybe.
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Jan 9, 2018 01:00
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Lobok posted:Someone saying "maybe" in that context is saying "I don't know". If Kent knew it wouldn't be a maybe. What was said was that when Clark asks if he should have let the kids die, that Pa initially responds with “maybe” and then amends it with “I don’t know”. But that’s not what happens. At least not in the scene I found (maybe the extended is different or w/e) instead he says “maybe” and then goes on to talk about why Clark needs to stay secret. Now, you can argue that the maybe is still tantamount to an “I don’t know” but I would say that the exchange still comes off differently than claimed and I think it’s entirely possible to read Pa’s tone as “now I how this sounds but hear me out” in the context of that scene. I think that’s a result of muddled storytelling, not poor viewer comprehension. Someone earlier IIRC suggested that he’s supposed to be seen as a bit of a hypocrite... that he tells Clark to be one way, but his actions teach Clark differently. That there’s a tension between the way he tries to protect Clark and the actual example that he sets, where the latter is closer to the traditional influence he has on the character. I agree in so far as I think that was the intent, but I don’t think the execution really sold it.
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Jan 9, 2018 01:09
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Not My Jonathan Kent
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Jan 9, 2018 01:12
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Imagine a child asking you if he should save people from dying and you say "maybe."
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Jan 9, 2018 01:36
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Yeah I thought he amended to I don't know but was incorrect.
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Jan 9, 2018 01:50
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BrianWilly posted:Imagine a child asking you if he should save people from dying and you say "maybe." I think the intention is that we’re supposed to see him as trying convince himself as much as Clark. He knows it sounds terrible but if he frames it correctly, about protecting his son, then maybe it won’t sound so bad. I don’t think it really works but I do think Snyder was going for something fairly nuanced.
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Jan 9, 2018 02:19
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