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I"m unreasonably mad that LaVoy is the only person to be turned into a snuff film out of all of this
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Jan 8, 2018 20:21
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hobbesmaster posted:people being acquitted due to incompetent police and prosecutors is good because it theoretically encourages them to not violate people’s rights in the future This would be good if it actually worked that way. This will not change the average run of the mill criminal case. All it will do is make law enforcement and prosecutors flinch at the thought of undertaking cases against obvious wrong doers with a movement of armed idiots who will create a grievance circus. No poor person in las vegas arrested for running drugs or whatever is going to be treated with any more deference or due process on account of this. This fuckup will only crystallize the idea that the law does not apply the same way to white people with guns and cowboy hats.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:34
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Kazak_Hstan posted:the law does not apply the same way to white people with guns and cowboy hats. It's quite clear that it doesn't.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:41
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It's cool how people who are dumb enough to live stream their crimes are able to get away with it because they love flags and guns.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:46
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It's really great that the US government is powerless against cults.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:51
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http://www.hcn.org/articles/public-lands-will-trump-put-karen-budd-falen-a-hired-gun-for-ranchers-in-top-blm-post One of the people under consideration for BLM director is literally one of Cliven Bundy’s lawyers (from the beginning of the saga, not recently).
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Jan 8, 2018 20:57
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Looking forward to Klavern Bundy getting sworn in as Secretary of the Interior next month. Kazak_Hstan posted:http://www.hcn.org/articles/public-lands-will-trump-put-karen-budd-falen-a-hired-gun-for-ranchers-in-top-blm-post Uh... ha ha wouldn't it be funny if I had a rich hitherto unknown uncle die, leaving me enough money to be wealthy beyond the dreams of avarace? *or* Computer, end simulation.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:59
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What cult do I have to join to manifest dick cancer on every one of these worthless poo poo people? Prosecutors. Bundies. Myself. All of it.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:34
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Potato Salad posted:Yeah, it's time to case caring about bloodshed. This is not actually the position you want the Feds to take. Somebody you like is likelier to get killed than one of these assholes.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:36
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:MOVE, an admittedly contentious black separatist group, literally gets bombed by police. Arial goddamn bombardment from a helicopter on a residential neighborhood, killing eleven (mostly children) and dispossessing hundreds. No one involved in bombing Americans in an American city were charged. Also worth mentioning: the police ordered the fire department to stand down after the bomb set the row home on fire, and shot the occupants as they attempted to escape the fire.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:39
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old beast lunatic posted:What cult do I have to join to manifest dick cancer on every one of these worthless poo poo people? Prosecutors. Bundies. Myself. All of it. hecate is your gal
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Jan 8, 2018 21:50
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Casimir Radon posted:It's really great that the US government is powerless against cults. idk we're doing alright against islam 
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Jan 8, 2018 22:21
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:This can't be overstated. Cops literally bombed basically the urban, black version of the Bundy clan, and none of them got in trouble for it. wtf i love the MOVE bombing now Not really, but being the “black version of the Bundy clan” doesn’t exactly inspire sympathy.
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Jan 9, 2018 00:25
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lmao that white people are basically immune to the law in america that;s funny as gently caress
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Jan 9, 2018 00:28
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Willie Tomg posted:idk we're doing alright against islam I feel like we aren't
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Jan 9, 2018 00:48
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I keep getting confused when I read BLM
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Jan 9, 2018 00:54
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Jeb! Repetition posted:I keep getting confused when I read BLM What's the difference? Both BLMs are clearly hate groups against real Americans.
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Jan 9, 2018 01:06
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xrunner posted:What's the difference? Both BLMs are clearly hate groups against real Americans. Blue Lives Matter 
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Jan 9, 2018 01:13
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Platystemon posted:wtf i love the MOVE bombing now I mean when I said "admittedly contentious" in the first post about them it was a diplomatic way of saying "by most counts actually really lovely." I think the analogy holds up okay. However they would have to be infinity times shittier than they were for me to feel like they deserved to be firebombed by cops.
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Jan 9, 2018 02:06
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Captain_Maclaine posted:I can't see these idiots not doing something like this again now that they've gotten away with it twice, and next time I have a hard time believing the feds won't just light their asses up at the first semi-plausible excuse.  if you think the BLM under Trump is going to be allowed to do anything to the Bundys.We need Janet Reno 2: Militia Purge Boogaloo.
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Jan 9, 2018 05:25
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Evil Fluffy posted:
Curiously, this is like the one pack of violent rightwing rubes that Trump hasn't gone to bat for, and indeed has spoken out against a couple times (admittedly prior to being elected).
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Jan 9, 2018 05:27
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"Many people saying BLM under Obama was weak, Bundy's running free, SAD"
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Jan 9, 2018 07:08
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https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/950614363265617921
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Jan 9, 2018 07:51
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Jesus loving wept.
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Jan 9, 2018 17:47
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Evil Fluffy posted:
Murdering children to own the conservatives
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Jan 9, 2018 17:49
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coathat posted:Murdering children to own the conservatives Go on.
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Jan 10, 2018 00:26
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Someone tell Jefferson Beauregard Sessions the Bundys are growing weed on that there farm of theirs.
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Jan 10, 2018 00:56
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Someone tell Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III the Bundys are growing weed on that there farm of theirs.
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Jan 10, 2018 01:00
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I doubt they're growing anything on that farm since the farmer has been in jail for 2 years. I wonder if the Bundys will try to sue for all the disruption and expense they've gone through, or if they'll count their blessings and leave well enough alone?
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Jan 10, 2018 01:34
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:I mean when I said "admittedly contentious" in the first post about them it was a diplomatic way of saying "by most counts actually really lovely." I think the analogy holds up okay. However they would have to be infinity times shittier than they were for me to feel like they deserved to be firebombed by cops. I don’t remember where I heard this, since it isn’t showing up on Wikipedia, but I think I read or heard somewhere (maybe a documentary or TV show) that the decision to bomb the MOVE house was based at least partly on intelligence suggesting the house was heavily fortified and/or rigged with explosive booby traps to prevent law enforcement from trying to attempt entry. Wikipedia does say the bombing was intended to target a fortified structure on the roof, so that was apparently another factor. And you’re right that MOVE was “actually really lovely”. Their house was filthy and filled with vermin that spread to neighboring houses, which MOVE refused to do anything about because of their crazy views on animal rights despite it creating a health hazard for neighbors. They got tons of complaints for using bullhorns to spout crazy political crap in what was supposed to be a family neighborhood. Several MOVE members were charged with poo poo that included making terrorist threats and illegal possession of weapons. They also killed a police officer* and injured a bunch of other people in an earlier standoff and had been (rumored to be) stockpiling weapons, which may be why their members were gunned down while trying to escape the fire; the cops thought they were hostile and would try to kill officers and innocent bystanders. I’m not saying the bombing or surrounding events were necessarily justified, but let’s not pretend that MOVE was entirely blameless in what happened. * Whether or not MOVE was actually responsible for the officer’s death is apparenly debatable. Some versions of events suggest that it may have been friendly fire or something.
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Jan 10, 2018 06:03
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None of that justifies dropping a bomb on someone and then shooting people as they run out
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Jan 10, 2018 06:08
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:None of that justifies dropping a bomb on someone and then shooting people as they run out It doesn’t justify the 60+ other houses that got burned down, either. All I’m saying is people had pretty good reason to think MOVE was dangerous and capable of bad poo poo. The tactics cops resorted to weren’t great, but it’s not like they should’ve just stood back and done nothing either. I. M. Gei has issued a correction as of 06:29 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 06:25
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Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:It doesn’t justify the 60+ other houses that got burned down, either. Do nothing, or commit war crimes. If only the police had some middle ground option they could have used instead 
Geoj has issued a correction as of 06:48 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 06:36
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Geoj posted:Do nothing, or commit war crimes. but enough about foreign policy
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Jan 10, 2018 06:57
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Geoj posted:Do nothing, or commit borderline war crimes. At the time of the bombing, I think police were working to minimize law enforcement casualties while not expecting the destruction to be as widespread as it ultimately was. They were probably afraid another fire-fight would break out if they had gone into the house through the front door, since MOVE had done that in the past, and that’s part of the reason they opted for the bomb tactic instead of something more peaceful. Obviously they should’ve thought their strategy through a lot more carefully before acting. And yeah, shooting people as they escaped and refusing to put out the fire as it spread to other houses were pretty terrible. There may have been a concern that trying to put out the fire with water could make the situation worse (some types of fires are made worse with water because science reasons), but beyond that I dunno what their justification for that could’ve been. Thinking that the people fleeing a fire might be hostile is iffy as hell though; they definitely shouldn’t have shot people fleeing the scene like that.
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Jan 10, 2018 07:03
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Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:I don’t remember where I heard this, since it isn’t showing up on Wikipedia, but I think I read or heard somewhere (maybe a documentary or TV show) that the decision to bomb the MOVE house was based at least partly on intelligence suggesting the house was heavily fortified and/or rigged with explosive booby traps to prevent law enforcement from trying to attempt entry. Wikipedia does say the bombing was intended to target a fortified structure on the roof, so that was apparently another factor. besides being based entirely on police claims, which are notoriously unreliable since they can cook up whatever they want to justify their actions and there's no third-party verification at all, this is no excuse for literally burning down the building. they let the fire burn because they thought it would force the MOVE members out, and only came up with the alternate excuses later when they accidentally burned down half the neighborhood; in the legal proceedings that followed, it was clear that the officials involved deliberately allowed the fire to burn because they thought it would solve their problems these people were murdered by the police for being an annoyance to their neighbors while black. even if the building was fortified, the police had no pressing reason to force entry, other than the fact that they couldn't let themselves be seen backing down against black people or respecting their rights. just keep in mind, when you discuss this, that there is no outside verification of many of the police's claims and that the police are not really a trustworthy source since they have a clear interest in justifying their conduct. there was no reason to call out hundreds of officers for what was essentially a harassment operation, nor was there any excuse for letting at least five fire trucks worth of firefighters on scene just sit back and watch while half the neighborhood burned down
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Jan 10, 2018 10:42
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Philadelphia’s police are far from blameless but “being an annoyance to their neighbors while black” is maybe just a tad disingenuous.
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Jan 10, 2018 10:51
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Platystemon posted:Philadelphia’s police are far from blameless but “being an annoyance to their neighbors while black” is maybe just a tad disingenuous. ok. how about "because the mayor had declared them a public nuisance and was facing political pressure from disgruntled neighbors to get rid of them, so he leaned on the cops to do whatever it took to get rid of them even though they didn't really have a legal justification for it"?
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Jan 10, 2018 10:56
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coathat posted:Murdering children to own the conservatives Branch Davidians set fire to their own compound
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Jan 10, 2018 11:52
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My dad was actually working pretty close to the MOVE house when this poo poo was going on. There was a fortified structure on the roof. It was a sort of bunker that was built with walls that were angled to deflect bullets. I don't really remember the details on how it was made. The police riddled that building with so many .50 cal bullets they basically had to burn the place down to cover it up. There is no good reason a civilian police should have loving .50 caliber machine guns. They had to call down the the naval yard to resupply because they had burned through so much ammo. The navy was apparently pretty shocked by this.
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Jan 10, 2018 12:02
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