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great big cardboard tube posted:I realize this is a pretty broad question but do any armies currently stand out as especially good or bad choices for someone (re)starting/learning the hobby fully from scratch? In terms of both the $ cost to collect a playable amount of points and the difficulty involved playing/modeling/painting them. As a genestealer cult player, I'd avoid them for now. They're pretty expensive / per model and you need a lot of them. And right now my experience has been that they're garbage.
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Jan 10, 2018 01:23
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great big cardboard tube posted:I realize this is a pretty broad question but do any armies currently stand out as especially good or bad choices for someone (re)starting/learning the hobby fully from scratch? In terms of both the $ cost to collect a playable amount of points and the difficulty involved playing/modeling/painting them. Space Marines are the gold standard for learning how to play. They're relatively inexpensive, easy to paint, and fairly forgiving if not exactly top tier. Primaris Marines are very cheap on eBay. Death Guard are another good choice; even more resilient, lots of fun expansion opportunities, and also fairly cheap. There aren't really any "bad" armies to start with. Maybe Orks since you need a lot of them, or Dark Eldar since they're fairly fragile and suffer from being an index army.
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Jan 10, 2018 01:24
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Worth noting that Primaris Marines & Death Guard are also the two factions with 'easy build' kits which are both easier to make (duh doy) and cheaper than normal..
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Jan 10, 2018 01:31
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Worth noting that Primaris Marines & Death Guard are also the two factions with 'easy build' kits which are both easier to make (duh doy) and cheaper than normal.. Yup. Just don't let yourself get trapped into doing a Primaris-only force since their options are limited.
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Jan 10, 2018 01:33
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Tiny 'Tism Adventures: How I Spent My 2017 Here are all the mans I finished in 2017, ladies and gents. Holy poo poo, big bugs inbound.          The ScyTal Carnifexes are magnetized, and those StoneCrushers are actually 2 different ones (Red Wrecker and Blue Baller, it turns out). This doesn't include the poo poo-haul of terrain I built, but none of that is painted v  v Also, after painstakingly building a whole loving light box out of tons of tape and parchment paper, I got these vastly superior shots of the Carnies by just taping paper to a magnifying lamp.
Proletariat Beowulf fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 01:33
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:Tiny 'Tism Adventures: How I Spent My 2017 Nice! I loving love your tyranid paint scheme. So crisp!
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Jan 10, 2018 01:48
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Yup. Just don't let yourself get trapped into doing a Primaris-only force since their options are limited. One million times this. Except characters, primaris characters are sweet.
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Jan 10, 2018 01:49
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Stuff I've been working on. These are some of the first conversions I've ever done. This was a "ghetto demon prince" I saved from ending up in a bin. My buddy was gonna toss it, I saved it.  My Hellforged Leviathan didn't look too chaos-y, so because I'm playing Emperor's Children, I made it a little extra.    This is the Demon Prince I was asking about earlier. The lower body is a Reaper mini. Still looking for a Talos Pain Engine head for him. Going to paint him like a white iridescent boa, only more pink like a puppies tummy rather than yellow.   Two Beans posted:House Rule 4 Kool Kidz: allow good model conversions in armies even if the armies' codex doesn't. This is that rhino. The tentacles are from the previously mentioned reaper mini.  I'm just itching to get some primer on this poo poo so I can paint, but it's cold as gently caress in Michigan right now. 
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Jan 10, 2018 02:29
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Yup. Just don't let yourself get trapped into doing a Primaris-only force since their options are limited. This was one of the couple options I've been looking at the closest. I was under the impression most new Marines releases going forward are likely to be primaris related and the relatively low $ cost per point and only having to choose one weapon type per squad instead of dealing with multiple heavy/special choices seemed like selling points. Please tell me where and why I'm wrong, there's no sarcasm intended. And I guess I'll add that adeptus mechanicus and DG are the other 2 already on my short list, although I dig the theme of like 1/2 the armies enough to see myself collecting them if the spark hits.
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Jan 10, 2018 02:37
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My friends who have been playing for years say that normal Marines are going to be gradually phased out in favor of Primaris sized models. It makes sense, Primaris have way more detail and it's GW's way of selling all new toys. My LGS's used case is full of Marines, and I get the feeling that anyone who wants to get into 40k and doesn't mind playing Marines can easily walk into any LGS and grab a bucketful of Marines for pennies on the MSRP dollar. That doesn't really jive with GW's sales model, so by going to Primaris they reset the clock on the used model market.
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Jan 10, 2018 02:46
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great big cardboard tube posted:This was one of the couple options I've been looking at the closest. I was under the impression most new Marines releases going forward are likely to be primaris related and the relatively low $ cost per point and only having to choose one weapon type per squad instead of dealing with multiple heavy/special choices seemed like selling points. Please tell me where and why I'm wrong, there's no sarcasm intended. Right now the primaris range is fairly small compared to the normal marines, and is significantly lacking in some areas. They don't currently have any inexpensive (in both money and points) transports or much in the way of anti-tank, which can make it tough for them to deal with some armies and mission types. If I was going to make a primarily parimaris army I'd still mix in some things from the normal marine range like predator tanks, dreadnoughts, and possibly some of the flyers, and I'd make good use of inceptors to give me squads with some mobility.
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Jan 10, 2018 03:04
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great big cardboard tube posted:This was one of the couple options I've been looking at the closest. I was under the impression most new Marines releases going forward are likely to be primaris related and the relatively low $ cost per point and only having to choose one weapon type per squad instead of dealing with multiple heavy/special choices seemed like selling points. Please tell me where and why I'm wrong, there's no sarcasm intended. The big(ly) problem is that updates are slow, and there's no guarantee that GW does what people expect with respect to only providing Primaris updates. It's entirely possible (to my knowledge we haven't seen a single Space Marine release that wasn't Primaris since 8th came out), but it's important to emphasize that it's not set in stone. That said I'm working on an all-Primaris force and I love the models. If you go with all-Primaris then I might suggest doing a custom chapter, and doing two simple things to ensure your army can be fielded by any SM Chapter ("Space Marine", Blood Angel, and Dark Angel). 1. Make sure all of the swords your Intercessor Sergeants carry are sheathed. It doesn't take much effort to do this; either buy the bits or make a press mold and copy them. This lets you field your squadrons as Blood Angels (which can only let their Sergeants carry chainswords) or anyone else (who get Power Swords). Alternatively you can ignore this advice entirely and play with people who don't give a poo poo. 2. Give your Lieutenants a second pistol holster. Hooray! Now they can carry plasma pistols if you so choose. All this does is give you the freedom to play multiple armies instead of one, which might be good depending on your playing style. Personally I'm leaning towards Dark Angels due to the Primaris getting a lot of plasma weapons and Dark Angels having a really strong strategy (+1 damage to plasma weapons) and a great chapter tactic (reroll 1's if you stand still). The other fun thing you can do is put together a cheap Primaris force and then use it as a core for adding other Imperial forces. Astra Militarum and Adeptus Mechanicus are both fun.
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Jan 10, 2018 03:09
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:There aren't really any "bad" armies to start with. Maybe Orks since you need a lot of them, or Dark Eldar since they're fairly fragile and suffer from being an index army. I'd call Orks and Guard a bad place to start if you're new to the hobby, not because they're not good armies, but because painting fatigue is a thing that takes some getting over if you're going to paint a horde.
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Jan 10, 2018 03:09
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Liquid Communism posted:I'd call Orks and Guard a bad place to start if you're new to the hobby, not because they're not good armies, but because painting fatigue is a thing that takes some getting over if you're going to paint a horde. As someone new to the hobby who made the mistake of painting up 20 poxwalkers for his first project getting neck deep in painting fatigue I second this hard. Don't make the mistake I did even if you do decide to go with those armies, pace yourself. Luckily i'm almost finished with them and will probably be finishing them up tomorrow but dear god its been weeks.
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Jan 10, 2018 03:13
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Paint 3-5 guys at a time, and change the type of model between batches.
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Jan 10, 2018 03:18
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:So because I love spreadsheets and wanted to figure out just how effective Primaris units are, I did some math... Could you share that spreadsheet ??
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Jan 10, 2018 03:19
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XPost from Just Paint thread. Just finished up this beautiful perfect boy e: serious gaylord posted:I used to paint things Welcome back! I love the poo poo out of your Horus, btw TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 03:36
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So, I was it of the loop for a long while, and reading online it's all memes and garbage - who can give me a condensed blurb on Kirby? Apparently he nearly killed GW?
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Jan 10, 2018 04:27
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Kirby is the type of 50s era business mind-set, a probable product of 80s/90s business schools, who looked at the market, GWs position in it, the landscape and decided that extracting value by cutting costs, not investing in the brand (through art, story, rules, etc...) and telling the consumer what they were getting rather than identifying what they needed was the way forward. It wasnt.
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Jan 10, 2018 04:44
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a cock shaped fruit posted:So, I was it of the loop for a long while, and reading online it's all memes and garbage - who can give me a condensed blurb on Kirby? Apparently he nearly killed GW? He was the head of GW during 6th/7th edition and was the guy who said GW was primarily a "model company". He and his cronies were apparently the big reason for the bad decision GW did during the 6th and 7th edition eras.
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Jan 10, 2018 04:44
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That reminds me, though I can't find any information on it easily - wasn't there a time where GW decreed that online retailers couldn't show photographs of their products they were selling?
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Jan 10, 2018 04:59
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LifeLynx posted:That reminds me, though I can't find any information on it easily - wasn't there a time where GW decreed that online retailers couldn't show photographs of their products they were selling? Yes. Online retailers could not offer a catalog of GW product, you had to call / email them directly to order.
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Jan 10, 2018 05:03
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He's an example of the phenomenon of the head of a company knowing that they are going to leave or retire, and as a way of increasing their bonus/future employment chances when they depart they knowingly sacrifice the company's future. Typically by raising prices and drastically cutting costs within the company in ways which will increase share price in the short term and to hell with the future of the company. Hence the regular as clockwork annual unjustifiable price hikes across the product ranges, the reductions in staff, the refusal to do much of anything beyond the core games, The flood of increasingly powerful formations to push sales, and the killing of the Fantasy setting. The refusal to spend money on market research or marketing. The astonishing alienation of the long time customer base. Everything was designed to build up to him loving off with his bonus. And on top of that, he was completely uninterested in what his customers wanted. That's my belief anyway.
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Jan 10, 2018 05:03
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:That's my evidence-based belief anyway. FTFY. There's a special place in hell for every single quarterly capitalist that did this poo poo--it happened to 2 different companies for whom I worked and it was goddamn infuriating every time. Nothing quite like seeing the lemmings on the board of directors scramble to steal the few fledgling threads of my retirement to sew the golden parachute for the next hack Harvard business C-student born with a silver cock in his mouth and then obsequiously thank him as he sawed off every locomotive limb of the corporate chimera to boost profits while the company slowed to a stop. Jesus, nothing manufactures socialists faster than these subhuman $800-bottle-of-wine-at-lunch parasites.
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Jan 10, 2018 06:45
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Ropes4u posted:Could you share that spreadsheet ?? Yeah, I am working on a cleaned up version that I will be happy to share.
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Jan 10, 2018 06:59
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TheChirurgeon posted:XPost from Just Paint thread. Just finished up this beautiful perfect boy That's wunderbar man!
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Jan 10, 2018 07:25
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TheChirurgeon posted:XPost from Just Paint thread. Just finished up this beautiful perfect boy I meant to say, this is cool. Well done. Also, looking forward to Serious Gaylord making me feel bad about my painting.
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Jan 10, 2018 08:00
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great big cardboard tube posted:I realize this is a pretty broad question but do any armies currently stand out as especially good or bad choices for someone (re)starting/learning the hobby fully from scratch? In terms of both the $ cost to collect a playable amount of points and the difficulty involved playing/modeling/painting them. Horde armies (Ork, Tyranid, Guard) can be bad because large numbers of units can really slow down a game in optimal conditions, when you're still learning the rules that gets compounded. They are also frequently expensive just because you need to buy so many boxes. Painting can be daunting because of how many units you're painting but hordes are also the most forgiving of simple batch techniques so you can do really simple jobs on troops so long as they coordinate properly. Elite armies (Grey Knights) can be bad because they require a high level of expertise to play and are very poorly positioned in 8th edition. Because of the low model count, they're very unforgiving of mistakes, a single unit lost can snowball quickly, limiting your opportunities to both learn and recover as you start playing. Elite armies can be expensive, but I think are pretty rewarding to paint because you're focusing on a smaller number of units but it can also be daunting feeling like every model on the table is a showpiece. In previous editions Knights were a forgiving elite army but because of 8th ed changes and the high quantity of anti-tank weapons people carry in the meta, they're a much riskier choice. Space Marines, and now Primaris Marines, are the Goldilocks Zone for new players. They have a moderate number of resilient models in their armies. They can start with a straightforward gameplan focused on executing on fundamentals but are also forgiving of mistakes. They are the most cheap and plentiful second hand models. They've got the widest model range so you can start shaping your force in multiple different tactical directions once you get a better feel for the game. They're good for learning to paint. They're strong in the current meta. All that said, pick whoever you think looks the coolest or has the best fluff. Traditional horde armies can make competent to good mid-range or even elite forces. I'd still suggest against making a horde, elite, or glass cannon (Dark Eldar) army just because they will actively obstruct you learning through play, but otherwise go hog-wild.
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Jan 10, 2018 08:22
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Liquid Communism posted:Shock and dismay, maybe they should not let his ego and lust for Smurfs screw with their cash cow. It's like hearing a wrestling company's hired Vince Russo, the fans just groan and wait for the dumb writing to start. Ward wrote really good rules, and he was the only writer in 5th who had a strong grasp on how the game worked and what the armies he wrote should do to be good at it. It's not his fault that the rest of the team was clueless. As for the fluff, the stuff people hated which 'ruined the book' was usually confined to one or two paragraph long entries, and was never as extreme as the nerd screeching suggested.
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Jan 10, 2018 08:22
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Yeah, I am working on a cleaned up version that I will be happy to share. Thank you, you are doing
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Jan 10, 2018 12:12
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Yeah, I am working on a cleaned up version that I will be happy to share. I realise its a bit more awkward to work out but do you think you could run the numbers on a baneblade with literally all the trimmings?
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Jan 10, 2018 12:39
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TKIY posted:Well GW is making loving bank: https://19485-presscdn-0-14-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/2017-18-Press-Statement-final-for-IR-site.pdf quote:ERP change - we are changing our core ERP system in the UK. This is a complicated project with the risk of widespread business disruption if it is not implemented well. Our new Global Head of IT and her team are making steady progress. As an ERP consultant, this is scary. More than half of these projects fail, and those that succeed usually have teething problems. I look forward to the month where trade customer orders go missing or all boxes have the wrong number of sprues because they hosed up on loading bills of materials!
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Jan 10, 2018 12:49
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Paint 3-5 guys at a time, and change the type of model between batches. 
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Jan 10, 2018 13:09
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Artum posted:I realise its a bit more awkward to work out but do you think you could run the numbers on a baneblade with literally all the trimmings? With the new sheet, easily.
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Jan 10, 2018 13:19
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:Tiny 'Tism Adventures: How I Spent My 2017 I love the America bugs.
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Jan 10, 2018 13:21
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TheChirurgeon posted:XPost from Just Paint thread. Just finished up this beautiful perfect boy Did you paint the...exhaust port?
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Jan 10, 2018 13:46
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xtothez posted:As an ERP consultant, this is scary. More than half of these projects fail, and those that succeed usually have teething problems. They have consultants for Erotic Role Playing?
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Jan 10, 2018 14:09
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I can’t not read it as that.
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Jan 10, 2018 14:13
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:They have consultants for Erotic Role Playing? Enterprise Resource Planning. It might as well be Erotic Role Playing for the level of fantasy and wishful thinking involved.
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Jan 10, 2018 14:17
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Uroboros posted:Did you paint the...exhaust port? Is this the model with the butthole? I didn't notice one as I was painting it, or I would have taken a close-up photo of that detail
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Jan 10, 2018 15:23
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