Payday 3: We've Been Robbed

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Payday 3: We've Been Robbed

Psion: Dec 13, 2002; eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

maswastaken posted:

As I said elsewhere: "It is often viewed as a mandatory skill, so we decided to replace it with a gaping hole in your ability to get things done."

It's not like it's considered a mandatory skill because players need it or anything.

Exactly. Whether or not it's a good change mechanically doesn't change the logic behind that sentence being completely broken.

# ? Jan 11, 2018 20:10

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 10:55

EorayMel: May 30, 2015; WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Fran�ais.

tbh im surprised they didnt go for altering nine lives aced or something if they were balancing stuff with one down in mind this time around

# ? Jan 11, 2018 20:10

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

EorayMel posted:

tbh im surprised they didnt go for altering nine lives aced or something if they were balancing stuff with one down in mind this time around

Or they used that as an excuse to nerf it because of the pubs that use it to spam Commando Rocket blasts outside of OD.

# ? Jan 11, 2018 20:14

UnknownMercenary: Nov 1, 2011; I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD

holy poo poo these DMR changes are awful

all of them are forced into 1 bullet per box pickup, except the Little Friend which averages 0.6 bullets per box

what the gently caress Jules

# ? Jan 11, 2018 20:42

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

EorayMel posted:

tbh im surprised they didnt go for altering nine lives aced or something if they were balancing stuff with one down in mind this time around

"While we like the way ~~Swan Song~~ Nine Lives works, it is ~~often viewed~~ universally accepted as a mandatory skill for the One Down difficulty due to how strong of a counter it is to the one down mechanic. With the ~~reduced duration~~ once-per-heist restriction the player will have to ~~work~~ pray harder to make the most out of the skill."

# ? Jan 11, 2018 21:05

Wastrel_: Jun 3, 2004; Read it and weep.

Good luck with giant open maps on OD now. They're doing exactly what I thought they would, which is to nerf skills and weapons while not actually changing anything about the highest difficulty. Swan Song nerf would have been much fairer if, for instance, it was paired with a reduction in the damage and accuracy of common enemies in OD.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 13:07

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Upcoming changes to everyone's favourite skill tree, Sharpshooter!

Summary:
High Value Target is replacing Specialised Killing (RIP fart guns).
Some weapons may get a damage buff to compensate.
Ammo Efficiency moved to where High Value Target was.
New Tier 4 Skill, Graze

quote:

Basic: Snipers will deal X% of the weapon damage in a Z cm radius around the bullet trajectory.
Aced: If the bullet would headshot kill someone the skill will deal Y% of the weapon damage instead of X%.

Sniper Rifles officially hipster shotguns, I guess.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 16:08

Gort: Aug 18, 2003; Good day what ho cup of tea

Seems weird to give the tree about being a good shot skills that benefit you if you miss, but whatever

# ? Jan 12, 2018 16:13

John Murdoch: May 19, 2009; I can tune a fish.

maswastaken posted:

High Value Target is replacing Specialised Killing (RIP fart guns).

Specialized Killing was kind of dumb to still have around, but HMMM I WONDER WHY ALL OF MY BUILDS USED IT.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 16:22

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

maswastaken posted:

Upcoming changes to everyone's favourite skill tree, Sharpshooter!

Jules posted:

Hey,

From what we can see, snipers are currently the weakest weapon type available to the player.[True] While, they can instantly dispatch one enemy thanks to their high damage[Often False] , they fall behind other weapons due to their low rate of fire and limited magazine size.[True, but also their high threat value, which draws further attention through indirect mechanisms of suppression, and their poor ammo recovery.]

As we see it snipers should be all about placing those few devastating shots that can change the tides of combat in your favors.[This sentence doesn't mean anything.] And because of that we do not see increasing their rate of fire and turning them into a second generation of DMR as a good solution.[This is understandable.]

[wait, shouldn'tt here be some sort of explanation of what they want to do to sniper rifles here?!?]

Another thing worth mentioning is that our intention is to balance all weapons archetype to be viable in the Death Wish difficulty.[Why are they balancing things to a particular difficulty? What does "viable" mean?] That said making a weapon more viable or less overpowered on the Death Wish difficulty will have an impact on how they perform in One Down.

For problem related specifically to One Down, they stem from how the One Down difficulty work and would require changes to the difficulty itself to be resolved.[No, it would require adjustments to all of the difficulties, all of which were reqritten with the Housewarming update.] Fixing One Down is not the intention of current balance changes made to the game but could be something we work on at later date. [Emphasis mine, those chumps.]

With all of that said, we are currently working on the following changes:

[...]

Developer note: While empowering your weapons is part of making an end game build,[No, this is not how endgame difficulty design works in a PvE game that isn't built around loot grind, it just has the effect of reducing the design scope, arrgh, this isn't WoW] Specialized killing was the only unconditional damage buff to all weapons without any conditional trigger conditions, such as berserker needing you to be at low health[True, but not really important to their evaluation] . It is removed to make place for a new skill that we believe will be more engaging for the player. Some weapons may see their base damage increased by a small amount to compensate for indirect damage loss.[What does this mean? Why can't you explain or communicate your decisions clearly? Why are you making piecemeal changes to systems with larger structural effects?]

Believing that difficulties should be balanced against number of skill points, and should, intentionally and by design, greatly narrow the scope of permissible builds, is a giant warning sign regarding Jules' approach to game balance. The other, of course, is his ongoing refusal to engage with the entire enemy side of the equation.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jan 12, 2018

# ? Jan 12, 2018 16:37

John Murdoch: May 19, 2009; I can tune a fish.

I can't wait to see them bump up a random selection of pistols' and SMGs' damage up by a few points because those are the only guns you'd use Specialized Killing for, right? Like we can have the argument that stacking SK on top of Frenzerker on top of whatever for maximum murderdeath is bad overall for balance, but we kind of have to actually have that argument instead of this nonsensical whack-a-mole bullshit.

And what is even the endgame here? Because it seems like they're haphazardly tamping down everything for DW, at which point they'll probably realize OD is now completely hosed and needs to be overhauled...almost as if that should've been their starting point to begin with.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jan 12, 2018

# ? Jan 12, 2018 17:47

EorayMel: May 30, 2015; WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Fran�ais.

It's a good thing I got my one down skull mask one month ago I tell you what.

Y'know what I'd like to see a balance patch focus on? Making cloakers hide under cars more often. First time I saw that in a hundred hours of payday I thought it was a super rare event where he got squashed by the environment.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 17:57

RandallODim: Dec 30, 2010; Another 1? Aww man...

The longer Payday 2's update life goes, the more convinced I am that I have a better experience just reading this thread than I would playing the game again. Jules's update style feels nearly antagonistic.

E: literally just realized how much this change will ruin my silenced shotgun dodge build, yeah, RIP my heisting days, wake me up when there's more lore

# ? Jan 12, 2018 18:51

Tempest_56: Mar 14, 2009

What the gently caress is Jules even trying to do anymore. Christ.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 19:54

a cat on an apple: Apr 28, 2013

Me, one month ago: "Hey, it seems like the game has improved since Crimefest '15! Maybe I should return to heisting."

Me, now:

# ? Jan 12, 2018 20:32

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

EorayMel posted:

Y'know what I'd like to see a balance patch focus on? Making cloakers hide under cars more often. First time I saw that in a hundred hours of payday I thought it was a super rare event where he got squashed by the environment.

Hiding cloakers are a map-specific spawn loop that occurs alongside normal cloaker spawns. For a few reasons (some legit, some dumb), a bunch of them have been removed over the years. I think there are still a bunch on Rats day 3, but players rarely stick around long enough for those cloakers to spawn and get into position.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jan 12, 2018

# ? Jan 12, 2018 21:08

a cat on an apple: Apr 28, 2013

Discendo Vox posted:

Hiding cloakers are a map-specific spawn loop that occurs alongside normal cloaker spawns. For a few reasons (some legit, some dumb), a bunch of them have been removed over the years. I think there are still a bunch on Rats day 3, but players rarely stick around long enough for those cloakers to spawn and get into position.

Isn't there a guaranteed one on Firestarter Day 2 Loud next to the escape, or was that one that got removed?

# ? Jan 12, 2018 21:23

UnknownMercenary: Nov 1, 2011; I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD

Literally been on the fire Jules train since day 1.

It's a train with no breaks and no signs of slowing down, everybody all aboard. :toot:

# ? Jan 12, 2018 22:12

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Can someone explain to me how to use the "Stoic" perk deck? Going to be playing with some friends, including a newbie, so we will be on Easykill so I figure I can give it a try, but dont really understand what is going on with it.

Also, who is "Duke"?

# ? Jan 13, 2018 00:39

MariusLecter: Sep 5, 2009; NI MUERTE NI MIEDO

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Can someone explain to me how to use the "Stoic" perk deck? Going to be playing with some friends, including a newbie, so we will be on Easykill so I figure I can give it a try, but dont really understand what is going on with it.

Also, who is "Duke"?

This is all I could find on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnAmEPxN6pI

# ? Jan 13, 2018 00:49

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

I just realized: RIP my JP36 build

MariusLecter posted:

This is all I could find on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnAmEPxN6pI

I think thats the one I found, too, but I dont trust the public. I was fishing more for a "<this> is the sum of its parts, I play it similar to a <different perk deck> but I do <a certain playstyle> with it".

It looks like your armor is converted to health, you take 75% damage, which is applied over time, but this can be negated by activating the Flask. I'm just not sure how to best apply these things to a playstyle.

AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jan 13, 2018

# ? Jan 13, 2018 01:01

chairface: Oct 28, 2007; No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

I just realized: RIP my JP36 build

Not at all. It just needs to use a silenced brenner now.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 01:03

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Can someone explain to me how to use the "Stoic" perk deck? Going to be playing with some friends, including a newbie, so we will be on Easykill so I figure I can give it a try, but dont really understand what is going on with it.

Starting the with what the deck would tell you:
You take a hit, one quarter of the damage is dealt directly, the rest is damage over time (12 seconds).
100% of your armour is converted to health.
Avoiding damage for 4 seconds cancels all damage over time effects on you.
The flask also cancels all damage over time effects on you. It has a 10-second cooldown (which is bullshit).
Killing makes the cooldown end quicker. Killing while below 35% health, quicker still.
Edit: How'd I forget the part where You for heal 50% of the undealt DoT when it's canceled?

Basically, Stoic's all about trying to play Death Wish like it's Overkill only you have to use the 3 key once in a while.

quote:

Also, who is "Duke"?

Winning entry for #MyHeister. Art thief.

maswastaken fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Jan 13, 2018

# ? Jan 13, 2018 02:22

EorayMel: May 30, 2015; WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Fran�ais.

it is also hilariously broken if you bring maxxed out first aid kits.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 02:23

swims: May 5, 2014; Waiter, this band keeps shooting pearls at me.

a cat on an apple posted:

Isn't there a guaranteed one on Firestarter Day 2 Loud next to the escape, or was that one that got removed?

Always there on the right by the van.

*console

# ? Jan 13, 2018 04:00

Wastrel_: Jun 3, 2004; Read it and weep.

Jules: I have made a game that has hordes of enemies that do high damage and have high hitpoints.

Also Jules: Hmm why are skills that buff weapon damage, as well as grenade launchers that can quickly take out groups of enemies, overused by the player base? It must be because they are overpowered. :thunk:

# ? Jan 13, 2018 04:55

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 08:04

Wastrel_: Jun 3, 2004; Read it and weep.

Well, just beat Goat Sim OD with all the new changes. Turns out 3 seconds is maybe 1 more shot with the Commando so it doesn't make a huge difference, for one. Thanatos also murders dozers a lot more efficiently now, so that's one thing they did get right.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 19:20

UnknownMercenary: Nov 1, 2011; I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD

So I did some digging in the game's lua files and I've come to the conclusion that either Overkill is bad at math, or there are some real sloppy and/or disgruntled employees handling their code.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/218620/discussions/14/2595630410194079695/

tl;dr the game forces all non-kit DMRs into the same pickup range as the AP Pistol because, why the gently caress not? 80% of 3.5 is 1.5, right? :downs:

# ? Jan 17, 2018 01:45

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

Just a reminder of the best video of payday 2 ever. We miss ya, fauxton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xKMCqppxqM

# ? Jan 17, 2018 06:10

HebrewMagic: Jul 19, 2012; Police Assault In Progress

That last stand gave me loving anxiety. Good music choice.

# ? Jan 17, 2018 06:39

chairface: Oct 28, 2007; No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

Discendo Vox posted:

Just a reminder of the best video of payday 2 ever. We miss ya, fauxton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xKMCqppxqM

# ? Jan 17, 2018 06:53

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Discendo Vox posted:

Just a reminder of the best video of payday 2 ever. We miss ya, fauxton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xKMCqppxqM

I'm so dreadfully out of practice these days it would take some patient-rear end goons to drag me through what's changed since uhhhh

I think the last time I played regularly was around the time they brought out the biker pack, I definitely have done the goat heists too but after that I'm drawing a blank. I think I've run a couple of the old remastered heists (one in a meat processing plant and the one in the suburban neighborhood) but hoo boy I'm way out of date

# ? Jan 17, 2018 06:55

Legit Businessman: Sep 2, 2007

Me too, I think I'll get back into this game to check out "THE SECRET" and that should he the actual end of this game.

Pubg is too good for my man killing simulator.

# ? Jan 17, 2018 16:56

Fellis: Feb 14, 2012; Kid, don't threaten me. There are worse things than death, and uh, I can do all of them.

FAUXTON posted:

I'm so dreadfully out of practice these days it would take some patient-rear end goons to drag me through what's changed since uhhhh

I think the last time I played regularly was around the time they brought out the biker pack, I definitely have done the goat heists too but after that I'm drawing a blank. I think I've run a couple of the old remastered heists (one in a meat processing plant and the one in the suburban neighborhood) but hoo boy I'm way out of date

I quit playing before you and I got back up to speed pretty quick. Murdering law enforcement is like riding a bicycle. :sun:

# ? Jan 17, 2018 23:32

chairface: Oct 28, 2007; No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

Fellis posted:

I quit playing before you and I got back up to speed pretty quick. Murdering law enforcement is like riding a bicycle.

That's what Chris Dorner taught me.

# ? Jan 17, 2018 23:42

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

I'll have you all know I'm reinstalling this dead (cop) game.

# ? Jan 18, 2018 01:54

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

We�re all glad to see y�all back! Don�t forget to join the discord, we play often there, it�s often more active than the thread.

Also, DEATH VOX IS REAL.

# ? Jan 18, 2018 07:30

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Discendo Vox posted:

We’re all glad to see y’all back! Don’t forget to join the discord, we play often there, it’s often more active than the thread.

Also, DEATH VOX IS REAL.

I'm already in the discord but these days I never see anyone actually playing.

Is that what you mean by death vox being real

# ? Jan 18, 2018 08:20

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 10:55

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

FAUXTON posted:

Is that what you mean by death vox being real

hold onto your rear end in a top hat, dude

# ? Jan 18, 2018 08:21

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