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Cingulate posted:Yeah, that's a weird omission. Firefly's nod to Chinese ascendancy felt very good to me, and now there's been a Chinese captain and ship for an episode of Star Trek or two. But on the Indian/Indian subcontinent side of things - we essentially have Khan (who was played by a Mexican and by a Brit), and that's it, right? Anything else from that quarter of humanity? There were a couple. I think one of the chief engineers in TNG season 1 was Indian. Not sure about the characters, but the actors who played Bashir's dad and the first security chief in STD are Indian, or at least of Indian descent.
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Jan 13, 2018 12:24
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1000 Brown M and Ms posted:Not sure about the characters, but the actors who played Bashir's dad and the first security chief in STD are Indian, or at least of Indian descent. Bashir's dad's actor was of Iraqi descent.
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Jan 13, 2018 12:31
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MikeJF posted:I meant several centuries of a combination of much easier of movement of people (not just travel, but emigrating), a post-national era, and the general removal/actively working against prejudice that we see in the Trek humanity. It'd be many millenia before everyone kinda turned into a generic brown look, but I think you'd see a huge proportion of the population having ambiguous multi-ethnic appearances within a few centuries. Nessus posted:re: the first, you'd probably make for more people who you could consider multi-ethnic, but I don't think people would necessarily become a single homogenized mass even in a couple of hundred years. A couple thousand, maybe, but I think you'd start seeing new divides. You also certainly wouldn't see everyone 'averaging out to light brown' or whatever. The thing is, we have a similar development with language, and nobody excepts all languages to converge into an average language. That's not how it works. Now for languages, I see why not, but I'm not sure about genes. It's a question for which there is a mathematical answer, and I'm not sure what it is. Sure, it would be surprising to find a perfect maintenance of the current ethnic and lineage make-up. There's little reason to that. But the alternatives might be all kinds of things, and with a starting point of even the roughest of culture-gene correlations, and even a tiny bit of assortative mating going on, it will probably not be "a homogenous brown", but simply new lineages. Nessus posted:As for Firefly I'm not sure you can count the show as having Asian ascendancy demonstrated when there was like one Asian actor in it. That would be like claiming Star Trek is afro-futurism. 1000 Brown M and Ms posted:There were a couple. I think one of the chief engineers in TNG season 1 was Indian.
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Jan 13, 2018 12:32
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Cingulate posted:So a suspicious void. It's an optimistic future for all of humanity we didn't melt in WW3.
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Jan 13, 2018 12:34
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MikeJF posted:Bashir's dad's actor was of Iraqi descent. Well, that's what I get for not double-checking first.
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Jan 13, 2018 12:38
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Far Beyond the Stars is great because it portrays O'Brien as the character he should have been all along, instead of the battle hardened Hero of Setlik III guy with the history of of like 800 separate battle engagements that I never bought into.
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Jan 13, 2018 13:00
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Epicurius posted:I think it's largely a post 9/11 thing., where the narrative became "There are enemies all around, and you can't trust anybody, and the heroes will have to Do What Is Necessary, no matter the cost."
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Jan 13, 2018 13:13
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McSpanky posted:The only problem with "In The Pale Moonlight" is that there's no followup after our heroes have won the war and secured the peace where Sisko makes the real hard choice by turning himself in for his crimes and facing justice. Even if -- and that's a big, big 'if' -- dark, unpleasant actions are necessary in the short term, that should never be an excuse for circumventing either the moral or legal mechanisms of responsibility altogether. I completely disagree with all of this. Turning himself in to "do what's right" is dumb as hell. The moral and legal mechanisms for responsibility isn't really worth anything when the consequences of taking this personal responsibility would be war with the Romulans. Also Sisko isn't deleting the log because he can't live with it (he explicitly can live with it), but because removing as much evidence as possible is the only sane thing to do after you've conned an empire into joining your war and literally saving the alpha quadrant
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Jan 13, 2018 14:10
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Itzena posted:And Babylon 5 is good because it also saw that coming and said "That way lies the path to totalitarianism and war crimes, and it must be opposed". DS9, too. Home Front and Paradise Lost are an allegory about 9/11 and the dangers of slipping into a paranoid authoritarian state as a result... made years before 9/11 happened.
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Jan 13, 2018 14:15
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Cingulate posted:Sure, it would be surprising to find a perfect maintenance of the current ethnic and lineage make-up. There's little reason to that. But the alternatives might be all kinds of things, and with a starting point of even the roughest of culture-gene correlations, and even a tiny bit of assortative mating going on, it will probably not be "a homogenous brown", but simply new lineages. Trek has a lot of colony worlds founded by specific groups - the planet of the Irish people (shudder), or the planet of the Scottish people (double shudder), or the American Indian colonists. Which kind of makes sense - given Earth's a post-scarcity paradise, people leaving to set up their own communities are likely to do so for ideological or cultural reasons more than economic ones. So you could have a situation where Earth's population is extremely mixed race, but the majority of human colonies are much less diverse, and so existing ethnic groups continue to exist in isolated populations on other worlds.
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Jan 13, 2018 14:18
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socialsecurity posted:This remains the only episode of Star Trek I've never seen because I don't think it will ever live up to what I've been imagining from these descriptions. It was a completely unexpected and unknown episode to me. It's Threshold-tier levels of what the gently caress for me. There is one scene in there where Crusher is just writhing around in a chair orgasming from whoever-the-gently caress knows. It's as every bit as  as you'd imagine
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Jan 13, 2018 14:39
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CubanMissile posted:Far Beyond the Stars is great
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Jan 13, 2018 15:29
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CubanMissile posted:The Visitor still makes me cry after all these years. Every time I see it I spend the rest of the night thinking about my father that passed. The carousel projector episode of Mad Men always does that to me as well because my parents were divorced when I was very young and my father was the very picture of a man who wished he could spend the rest of his life in a bubble of a home movie of his family at the beach.
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Jan 13, 2018 15:32
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The Visitor and Far Beyond the Stars are some of the best TV ever made.
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Jan 13, 2018 15:36
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Grand Fromage posted:The Visitor and Far Beyond the Stars are some of the best TV ever made. watching far beyond the stars should be in curriculums tbh
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Jan 13, 2018 15:47
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MikeJF posted:The background/bible of the show actually stated that there was a founders effect racial divide; the two first planets colonised were Londinium by the western ships and Sihnon by the Chinese ships, and the areas of the rim the show took place were colonised out of Londinium. What the hell would lead to a colonizing vessel named Londinium? And is Sihnon from Sino- for Chinese? These really seem pulled out of a hat.
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Jan 13, 2018 16:28
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Those were the planets. They were naming their new capitals.
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Jan 13, 2018 16:50
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MikeJF posted:Bashir's dad's actor was of Iraqi descent. This is one of those "You're both right" things. Brian George's father was born in Iraq and then moved to India, where he met and married George'a mother, who, I think, was also of Iraqi descent . After Israel was founded, they moved to Jerusalem , where George was born, and then to London and then to Toronto. So he's Iraqi-Indian-Israeli-British-Canadian.
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Jan 13, 2018 16:55
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CubanMissile posted:Far Beyond the Stars is great because it portrays O'Brien as the character he should have been all along, instead of the battle hardened Hero of Setlik III guy with the history of of like 800 separate battle engagements that I never bought into. O'Brian should have been Isaac Asimov? One of the fun things about the episode was how each of the characters at the magazine were a one on one match for actual science fiction writers and the whole episode was based loosely on a true story.
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Jan 13, 2018 17:05
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MikeJF posted:Those were the planets. They were naming their new capitals. I was saying, what would lead to those names for the colonies? I don't know what we'd name new colonies, but it would probably be something modernly lame, like the name of a politician or religious figure, or just "new Earth" or "Hope" or "Pax" or something stupid and symbolic. Idk if I found out a ship was going off to found Londinium light-years away, I'd be like finally, the LARPers are in exodus. Personally, I'd call a new Earth colony "Terragain"
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Jan 13, 2018 17:50
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Who knows. They spent hundreds of years on a spaceship getting there and developed a britain-boner on the way.
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Jan 13, 2018 18:07
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The only show they bothered to bring on the colony ships was Coronation Street.
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Jan 13, 2018 18:50
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Brawnfire posted:I was saying, what would lead to those names for the colonies? I don't know what we'd name new colonies, but it would probably be something modernly lame, like the name of a politician or religious figure, or just "new Earth" or "Hope" or "Pax" or something stupid and symbolic. Nah it would be crowd-sourced and people would vote for it to be named colony mccolonyface
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Jan 13, 2018 19:51
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Cingulate posted:Oh sure, but it had Chinese signs everywhere and the characters speak Chinese. To me it said, "'the Chinese' are super influential, but 'the genetically Chinese people' are currently not here for whatever reason". Which is downright bizarre because pretty much every other ethnicity outfucks white people.
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Jan 13, 2018 20:48
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Brawnfire posted:I was saying, what would lead to those names for the colonies? I don't know what we'd name new colonies, but it would probably be something modernly lame, like the name of a politician or religious figure How do you know it wasn't? Maybe Hank Londinium was the leader who saw the world through the Thallium Crisis of 2109 and ended up with his face on the money and about a billion cities named after him. (If you'd never heard of Abraham Lincoln, it would strike you as just as odd that the USA has so many things named after an obscure little town in Lincolnshire.)
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Jan 13, 2018 20:50
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Firebert posted:Nah it would be crowd-sourced and people would vote for it to be named colony mccolonyface Would love to see a sci-fi where the name of literally anything is decided by global poll, including the planet itself and all founded colonies and ships. What a shitshow. Powered Descent posted:How do you know it wasn't? Maybe Hank Londinium was the leader who saw the world through the Thallium Crisis of 2109 and ended up with his face on the money and about a billion cities named after him. (If you'd never heard of Abraham Lincoln, it would strike you as just as odd that the USA has so many things named after an obscure little town in Lincolnshire.) Well, poo poo! Can't really argue against that!
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Jan 13, 2018 20:54
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:Which is downright bizarre because pretty much every other ethnicity outfucks white people. The Irish would like a word.
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Jan 13, 2018 21:58
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:Which is downright bizarre because pretty much every other ethnicity outfucks white people.  And that one is very strongly about socioeconomics. Once people go above subsistence, they stop having kids. The arab world is barely above replacement levels now!
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Jan 13, 2018 22:00
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Bohemian Nights posted:I completely disagree with all of this. Turning himself in to "do what's right" is dumb as hell. The moral and legal mechanisms for responsibility isn't really worth anything when the consequences of taking this personal responsibility would be war with the Romulans. Yeah, I can't really see anyone making that decision when literally every race Sisko deals with on a daily basis would have easily made the same one a thousand times over. The Romulans certainly wouldn't balk at a little espionage. No way you can send people on suicide missions and then spend your days being guilty about a dead senator you didn't kill who's part of an empire that is going to get absorbed or destroyed the moment the Dominion wins.
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Jan 13, 2018 22:35
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Brawnfire posted:Would love to see a sci-fi where the name of literally anything is decided by global poll, including the planet itself and all founded colonies and ships. What a shitshow. Larry Niven has a bunch of goofy names in the Known Space universe like Crashlanding City, the capital of the colony We Made It.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:24
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I've said it before, but startrek "show, don't tell"'s the fact that pretty much everyone outside of the USA died in the post-atomic horrors, then americans recolonized the world. "Oh yeah my great great great great grandfather was from former India" great, you're being sent to re-populate india despite being culturally 100% american for generations. Picard has an english accent because there just weren't enough actual french to repopulate france and english was "close enough", I mean that's european right? Anyone who spoke a non-english first language or had any sort of accent became a rare and protected class during the reconstruction and there simply weren't enough of them to restart most annihilated earth cultures. Notice we don't even see many of earth's great cities? We see SF and Paris and that's it, never a mention of New York or Tokyo or Bejing or Berlin. They're gone. Where are characters from? Once again, never a great world city, always somewhere rural like Nebraska or Alaska, places that wouldn't have been primary targets in a nuclear war.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:37
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I can't remember, do Picard's family on Earth have a British accent?
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Jan 14, 2018 01:40
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Worf is from Minsk. Sorry, Neo-Minsk IV.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:40
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remusclaw posted:I can't remember, do Picard's family on Earth have a British accent? Yeah they do, his brother, his brother's wife, their son, all english.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:41
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Baronjutter posted:Notice we don't even see many of earth's great cities? We see SF and Paris and that's it, never a mention of New York or Tokyo or Bejing or Berlin. They're gone. http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Tokyo_Base
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Jan 14, 2018 01:49
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That doesn't even specify that it's on Earth.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:55
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Worf is from Minsk. I want to see the version of Rochelle Rochelle where she gets Worf at the end
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Jan 14, 2018 02:03
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Harry Kim was from South Carolina for some reason. Sulu was from San Fran. So even the Asian characters are usually Americans. Hoshi was apparently from Kyoto, Japan, even though Linda Park is Korean. So maybe Korea finally conquered Japan in WWIII. Have any of the "American" characters been from a major city that isn't on the coast? Like Chicago or Vegas? I assume places all got nuked.
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Jan 14, 2018 02:20
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Why did Hoshi HAVE to be japanese? Why not just make her korean? Why did Keko have to be Japanese? On Stargate Atlantis they had a call for a russian scientist, a czech got the role so they made the actual character czech too since he could speak it and really other than being some sort of accented slav it didn't matter.
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Jan 14, 2018 02:23
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Al Borland Corp. posted:I want to see the version of Rochelle Rochelle where she gets Worf at the end Rochelle, Rochelle: Qup be'Hom Huj, erotic lutebjaj vo' Milan Minsk yIHegh!
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