Nessus posted:Lovecraft's poo poo is public domain. Is the difference that Howard actually had heirs, however marginal, while Lovecraft wasn't able to leave his poo poo to his racist cats? I know they were contemporaries. That and Lovecraft wrote and published most of his stories before 1928, so they'd be public domain either way, while Conan was a later creation of Howard.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:09
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No way does Marvel not get the full Conan reprint rights. Just look how terribly they are repackaging the DH Star Wars comics.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:35
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Rick posted:My earliest comic reading days (going to extremely age myself here) heavily featured Marvel packs picked up from Price Club that my stepdad bought me and I hated the Conan books so much. I wonder if I would like them now if I was to dig them out. Same - I remember buying one at a gas station while on a trip to Cincinnati. It had Conan:Red Nails, X-Men 191, and a Marvel Tales. I hated that Conan with a passion - it was buried in the middle so I couldn't see it, and I wanted another drat super hero comic!!
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Jan 14, 2018 02:06
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I'm reading The Clone Saga for a Forums Assignment and I cannot believe, even for one second, anyone thought this was a good idea. It's the boringest poo poo in the loving world, every single issue with Ben Reilly has to start off explaining that he's a clone and he has no sense of self-worth as a person because he's not even a real person, he's a clone, he's a clone he's a clone he's a clone, every single Ben Reilly story has to deal with him going through extremely overwrought internal narration about how he doesn't know who he is or if he's worth anything, because everything about him is false, or if he should do anything ever, because - get this - he's a clone. And then Peter is fuckin' doing The Spider poo poo, talking constantly about how he doesn't want to be Peter Parker any more, just The Spider, and he speaks about himself constantly in the third person like the biggest douche in the world, and he fuckin' sucks poo poo too because all he does is internally seethe about how difficult his life is being married to a famous supermodel and how he wishes he could leave it all behind so he could instead punch morons in animal costumes in red and blue pajamas. Kaine is the tryhardiest edgelord in the loving world, the Mark of Kaine poo poo would be laughable if it weren't treated so deadly seriously. Most of the issues I've read so far have consisted of Ben standing by May Parker's deathbed wondering aloud if maybe he should leave it all behind and be his own man because - and this is gonna surprise you - nothing that's happened in his memories is real, because - get this - he's a clone. It's constant still shots of Ben Reilly interminably being a self-pitying douche intercut by Peter Parker standing by May Parker's deathbed wondering aloud if maybe he should quit his real life just to be The Spider. It's the worst. There's nothing fun about this, it's interminable, every single issue is part of some major crossover spanning all the monthlies but they still spend a good like third of each individual issue recapping what has happened so far (almost always almost nothing besides people standing in rooms feeling sorry for themselves) in the crossover that you're in the middle of reading. It's so goddamn self-serious and nothing loving happens while still being overwritten as gently caress because this is pre-decompression, and it's not even fun in that nineties way of being ridiculous. They took an inherently silly idea like "Spider-Man and his clone are running around at the same location" and somehow made that tedious because of how utterly pretentious and self-serious it is. Holy poo poo this storyline is the mother loving worst. Also Venom is there.
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Jan 14, 2018 02:59
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No joke, Clone Saga drove me away from comic books for well over a decade.
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Jan 14, 2018 03:18
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To me the aimless period after the clone saga was much worse than the clone saga itself.
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Jan 14, 2018 03:25
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Lurdiak posted:To me the aimless period after the clone saga was much worse than the clone saga itself. The Slingers build up was kind of fun.
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Jan 14, 2018 03:25
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Rhyno posted:The Slingers build up was kind of fun. That sure went somewhere. And so did the Gathering of Five. And MJ dying in that plane crash. And Howard Mackie's entire run.
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Jan 14, 2018 03:28
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Lurdiak posted:That sure went somewhere. And so did the Gathering of Five. And MJ dying in that plane crash. And Howard Mackie's entire run. In the next issue of Spider-man...Peter gets a haircut!
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Jan 14, 2018 03:30
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Like I came into this expecting Clone Saga to be convoluted and to run too long and to be super nineties. Those were the problems I was expecting. I expected it to be convoluted, and to not make much sense, and to be over-the-top and focused on dumb gimmicks over good storytelling. None of those problems are present in what I've read so far. It's not convoluted because so little has happened, Peter Parker and Ben Reilly both suck as mains for slightly different but related reasons (the former because he won't stop feeling sorry for himself and won't stop going on about The Spider, the latter because his entire thing is just repeating "I'm a clone!" while wavering on doing anything at all whatsoever). It runs too long, but mostly because so little has happened and this entire storyline has overtaken all the related Spider-Man ongoings for no reason. There's just no there there, it's all these multipart crossovers that consist of Pete or Ben just standing around in different places having existential crises. And it's not nineties, because nothing silly or ridiculous happens! Outside of its premise, everything is deathly serious and played super straight. It's not absurdist, amped, or Exxxtreme in the slightest; it completely dumpsters the general tone of Spider-Man comics and isn't fun, or funny, or enjoyable to read. Both Spider-Men are extreme bores, and their personal life stuff consists of the most dour poo poo in the world. It's like someone at Marvel read the Knightfall trilogy and assumed what people wanted was shots of Bruce Wayne feeling sorry for himself as he laid in bed with a broken back. Like, I know this was directly inspired by and in response to Knightfall and The Death of Superman, but it's like everyone involved in the conception of this storyline completely misunderstood, on a very fundamental level, why those stories worked even slightly. This just loving sucks to read.
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Jan 14, 2018 03:33
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Lurdiak posted:That sure went somewhere. And so did the Gathering of Five. And MJ dying in that plane crash. And Howard Mackie's entire run. They got their own book!
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Jan 14, 2018 03:38
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In funnier news, I recently discovered that a short run miniseries was made following the Meteor Man character introduced in this unforgettable piece of cinema history. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njP6YczRgsA The comic, from what I've seen, is amazing. 
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Jan 14, 2018 06:34
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LtW read that insanely long post-mortem of the clone saga. It was never intended to last as long as it did.
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Jan 14, 2018 07:03
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From what I remember the Clone Saga gets better once Ben is fully in the role of Spider-Man and Peter is off whenever in Spider-Retirement but yes overall it's so goddamn long and interminable.
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Jan 14, 2018 07:31
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Rhyno posted:Just look how terribly they are repackaging the DH Star Wars comics. I don't think they've been doing them especially worse than the DH Star Wars omnibuses.
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Jan 14, 2018 14:56
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The way in which the Clone Saga is indicative of the Nineties isn't in having a ridiculous premise or being overly violent, it's in its attempt for psychological authenticity. Comics in the Nineties were interested in being artistically relevant in the same way that Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns were. Different creators took different approaches to that goal. The early Image comics wanted to portray adult themes, which they interpreted as violence and sexuality, but even those comics also attempted for psychological realism. What would it be really like to be an unwilling supersoldier with cybernetic implements? What would it be like to be a living weapon? The answer Liefeld and others would come up with is "it would suck," and well, it did. To be fair, you probably would be a misogynistic rear end in a top hat if you had bloated, disgusting musculature and a bunch of guns strapped to you at all times. The trouble is that all these creators thought they were being very creative when instead they were doing the most obvious stuff imaginable. The Clone Saga tries to be a realistic portrayal of what it would actually be like if you discovered you were a clone. They wanted to do a character driven story around that ridiculous concept, and that maybe could have worked. What makes the Clone Saga so bad, though, is that there wasn't a single writer who had a better idea for what being a clone would be like than "I would be really sad." The Clone Saga treats this angst as deathly serious because the writers earnestly believe that they've created something authentic.
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Jan 14, 2018 22:14
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As opposed to "Hay, I'm the original, you're the clone, what does it matter, you're my bro, let's be Spider-buds and go kick rear end and get you a good life of your own. Oh hay there's clone Gwen Stacy. You get Gwen, I'm with MJ, let's totes mcgotes own life now because we in a way both got the loves of our lives."
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Jan 15, 2018 01:11
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Here, I was thinking earlier, you know how DC has had great success lately by reimagining classic WB and Hanna Barbera cartoon characters or crossing them over with their superheroes? If Disney let Marvel do that (and I know it'd probably be a cold day in hell before they did), what would be a fun way to do it? I have this image in my mind of Pooh Bear in this mid-1960s neo-noir story where he's a Solomon Burke type and his album A Small Smackeral of Soul has just won a Grammy for Best Male R&B Performance. He ends every concert saying, "Stay sweet as hunny forever, baby."
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Jan 15, 2018 01:30
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Wheat Loaf posted:Here, I was thinking earlier, you know how DC has had great success lately by reimagining classic WB and Hanna Barbera cartoon characters or crossing them over with their superheroes? If Disney let Marvel do that (and I know it'd probably be a cold day in hell before they did), what would be a fun way to do it? code:
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Jan 15, 2018 01:38
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Actually the fact that marketing was dictating what the writers should do is by far the most 90s thing about the Clone Saga.
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Jan 15, 2018 01:44
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Great success is an overstatement but that’s a lot more than I expected those issues to sell given the premium price.
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Jan 15, 2018 01:44
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Elsa is a Queen of a Nation and honorary X-Man on par with Magneto's power and has to keep Doom at bay. Medusa and Rapunzel exchange notes on hair. Scrooge McDuck is revealed as a co-colaborator with Howard Stark who helped build his empire, Donald and Logan and Steve served in WWII, Huey Dewey, Louie and Webby have their own detective agency that's commissioned by Matt Murdock and heroes when they can't get involved with poo poo. Baloo operates his Seaplane out of Madripoor and is regularly commissioned by SHIELD to do under cover poo poo for them. Jasmine is an intern from Persia and Peter's new temp squeeze when its revealed the Crown wants her back home. Hawkeye, Hawkeye, and Merida Archery Club. Ariel is one of Namor's wives.
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Jan 15, 2018 01:45
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Wheat Loaf posted:Here, I was thinking earlier, you know how DC has had great success lately by reimagining classic WB and Hanna Barbera cartoon characters or crossing them over with their superheroes? If Disney let Marvel do that (and I know it'd probably be a cold day in hell before they did), what would be a fun way to do it? Conan and Aladdin doin heists, bein bros.
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Jan 15, 2018 01:47
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Lurdiak posted:Conan was created after Steamboat Willie, he's never ever going to be public domain.
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Jan 15, 2018 06:22
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Gatts posted:Elsa is a Queen of a Nation and honorary X-Man on par with Magneto's power and has to keep Doom at bay. Medusa and Rapunzel exchange notes on hair. Scrooge McDuck is revealed as a co-colaborator with Howard Stark who helped build his empire, Donald and Logan and Steve served in WWII, Huey Dewey, Louie and Webby have their own detective agency that's commissioned by Matt Murdock and heroes when they can't get involved with poo poo. Baloo operates his Seaplane out of Madripoor and is regularly commissioned by SHIELD to do under cover poo poo for them. Jasmine is an intern from Persia and Peter's new temp squeeze when its revealed the Crown wants her back home. Hawkeye, Hawkeye, and Merida Archery Club. Ariel is one of Namor's wives. Donald was on the wrong side, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzH1iaKVsBM (Since it was all a dream, would this be Donald's "Secret Empire"?) Esplanade fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 07:25
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Gatts posted:As opposed to "Hay, I'm the original, you're the clone, what does it matter, you're my bro, let's be Spider-buds and go kick rear end and get you a good life of your own. Oh hay there's clone Gwen Stacy. You get Gwen, I'm with MJ, let's totes mcgotes own life now because we in a way both got the loves of our lives." I think that was literally the premise of 'What If Spider-Man's Clone Lived?' (minus the Gwen bit).  Also that was also kind of the ending of the 'Real Clone Saga' miniseries, done by some of the original writers (again, minus Gwen). I'm surprised people always forget that the very next issue Peter took went to Doc Connors to run a whole batch of tests to determine whether or not he was the clone. While Peter threw out the actual paperwork, you'd think he could just look up the Doc and ask him directly what the results were when Ben came back. Then again, a guy who turns himself into a The Lizard on a semi-regular basis might not be the most reliable person. Or because that what have totally undercut the whole thing.
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Jan 15, 2018 10:46
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Don't they also tease that Ben Reilly isn't the body Peter Parker threw into the chimney at the end of the 70's clone saga without ever elaborating on it at all?
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Jan 15, 2018 10:56
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I actually went back to ASM #149 & #150, and I don't recall Peter ever actually being shown dumping Ben into a smokestack, I think that was a retcon itself. And yeah, they later had a skeleton found in a Spider-Man costume in that smokestack for additional mindfuckery.
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Jan 15, 2018 11:55
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Endless Mike posted:LtW read that insanely long post-mortem of the clone saga. It was never intended to last as long as it did.
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Jan 15, 2018 12:50
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Pierson posted:Got a link for that? Deep dives into huge failures are like crack for me. http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/
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Jan 15, 2018 12:57
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Hell yeah, thanks man.
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Jan 15, 2018 13:06
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achillesforever6 posted:You don't know, its seems like Disney is going to let Steamboat Willie lapse into the public domain this time without a fight With the government like this, they probably just need to send one memo and the lap dogs will pass it.
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Jan 15, 2018 15:53
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Yvonmukluk posted:I actually went back to ASM #149 & #150, and I don't recall Peter ever actually being shown dumping Ben into a smokestack, I think that was a retcon itself. Beginning of 151.
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Jan 15, 2018 17:57
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Wait, Peter killed his clone and threw him in a smokestack? Is that what happened to? Is that what happened when the Jackal originally made Ben Reilly?
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Jan 15, 2018 18:01
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Wait, Peter killed his clone and threw him in a smokestack? Is that what happened to? Is that what happened when the Jackal originally made Ben Reilly? Edit: this is a clone of the original post. It calls itself "Ben Post." It's a real question the which one is the original and which one is the Clone. Please ignore the obvious answer. I need time to figure out how to best end the story. Give me like five years, I think we can milk his for marketing and marketing really wants us to do that. Personally, I would end the story after only three parts, but it's just selling too well and editing and marketing says I must keep going on. Covok fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 18:01
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The Jackals bomb killed the clone. Peter dumped the body there because a second Parker would be hard to explain.
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Jan 15, 2018 18:08
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Rhyno posted:The Jackals bomb killed the clone. Peter dumped the body there because a second Parker would be hard to explain. Okay, that makes sense.
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Jan 15, 2018 18:09
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Covok posted:Wait, Peter killed his clone and threw him in a smokestack? Is that what happened to? Is that what happened when the Jackal originally made Ben Reilly? 
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Jan 15, 2018 18:28
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How did Absorbing Man die? This time, in case he's died earlier.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:09
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twistedmentat posted:How did Absorbing Man die? This time, in case he's died earlier. Read Black Bolt. Do it.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:19
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