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And then that loving run ends by me dying to loving three lonely Oklob plants in otherwise empty Lair which I tried to out-snipe with my fireballs while butt-naked to prevent miscasts to get some probably pointless ring. This game loves to make me feel like a complete imbecile.
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Jan 15, 2018 16:18
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The game is MASSIVELY about equipment luck, yeah. But more lucking into good resists than good offense.
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Jan 15, 2018 16:29
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Teal posted:So is this me just being awfully bad with all my builds or was (around 0.19 when was the last time I got into it) and still is the game MASSIVELY about luck with what you stumble upon equipment wise? You're going at the game all backwards. You're supposed to succeed with the throwaway characters you had no hope for while the characters with excellent luck are doomed to die to the greatest acts of stupidity. More seriously, you should more or less be able to make do with the basics. A plate or chain armor with the right ego can be worth soaking your enchantments into if you're not running with certain gods. It may initially seem like a waste, but it can pay for itself in consumables. As well, the Orcish mines can often provide something decent in weapon or armor and great maces are the most reliable of weapons. If your god can carry you early on dragon armor is a lot more common and varied than it used to be. Along those lines, the Elven Hall of Blades can drop some excellent weapons well before you can clear the elf 3 vaults if you head there early enough for them to matter. The Elven Halls before 3 are a bit more dangerous since they've been shortened but you also have more tricks since the evocable overhauls so reaching the HoB is certainly doable with luck, care, and cowardice. The dancing weapons are an entirely different danger of course.
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Jan 15, 2018 16:39
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Teal posted:And then that loving run ends by me dying to loving three lonely Oklob plants in otherwise empty Lair which I tried to out-snipe with my fireballs while butt-naked to prevent miscasts to get some probably pointless ring. This game loves to make me feel like a complete imbecile. Oklobs are one of the nastier threats that can't see invisibility, I would never try to take them down in Lair without invis.
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Jan 15, 2018 16:55
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LordSloth posted:cowardice That's another thing; if you haven't gotten lucky with the equipment then you are welcome to hug staircases, aren't you? I always struggle ever doing that because I feel like it makes the game too easy but I guess that since they didn't add more staircase locks like in vaults, they actually mean you to do that whenever necessary.
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Jan 15, 2018 16:56
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Well, rather than hug the staircases, just retreat and come back down another. While player ghosts seem to have an obscene ability to track you, most of the threats in the elven halls travel at your speed, with a few very notable exceptions. The easiest way to deal with higher level summons is just to let them dissipate, and the easiest way to deal with a high level annihilator is just coming back down somewhere else. The layout of the halls also seems to make mobs spread out more after being awakened and easier to take down piecemeal. Of course if you lack MR, you're hosed, but a lot of the new wands are pretty great at tearing apart the rest of the elves.
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Jan 15, 2018 17:39
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Also, if you make a murder-hole (which you should be doing always anyway) the only real threat are the Earth Elementalists that summon poo poo that destroys your hidey spot and exposes you to LoS of the really nasty stuff. Elf is like the rest of the game for then most part: if you take your time, pick your fights, pull manageable mobs at a time, and know when to fold 'em you can usually handle what comes your way. Just don't get surrounded or let smite-targeting assholes ping you constantly and you'll be fine.
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Jan 15, 2018 17:44
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Teal posted:So is this me just being awfully bad with all my builds or was (around 0.19 when was the last time I got into it) and still is the game MASSIVELY about luck with what you stumble upon equipment wise? You can get lucky but you shouldn't EXPECT to get a decent weapon until sometime in Lair or shortly after. Maybe later with long blades which are a poor choice if you want early drops. Your problem isn't weapons, it's that you're wearing leather armor and probably neglecting defenses. All finding a great weapon on D4 is going to do for you is teach you bad habits and make progression less likely in games where you don't get "lucky". It also will ill prepare you for later in the game when you don't have the advantage of an OOD weapon. As people have said, be cautious, cheat the AI in every way you can. Also 100% xp into your weapon skill until at least 6-8 helps a ton. Don't let people talking about how easy Crawl has become make you think it's still not a very hard game.
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Jan 15, 2018 18:37
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Araganzar posted:You can get lucky but you shouldn't EXPECT to get a decent weapon until sometime in Lair or shortly after. Maybe later with long blades which are a poor choice if you want early drops. I was wearing the Leather because I was actually relying on not miscasting poo poo and also had a pretty great evasion; mind me, as a Gnoll I couldn't not skill Dodge or up my armor stat and spellcasting specifically to prevent miscasts. It worked really great and I purged all of Lair, then I just went to play in the nude with Oklobs. And I have died to Oklobs before; I guess it's just you really need to feel each of these pains from time to time to refresh yourself on what all can't you underestimate in this deathtrap of a game.
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Jan 15, 2018 19:16
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Don't forget oklobs cannot see invisible. How they can see you at all I don't know.
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Jan 15, 2018 19:28
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Teal posted:I was wearing the Leather because I was actually relying on not miscasting poo poo and also had a pretty great evasion; mind me, as a Gnoll I couldn't not skill Dodge or up my armor stat and spellcasting specifically to prevent miscasts. It worked really great and I purged all of Lair, then I just went to play in the nude with Oklobs. Yeah as a Gnoll Skald you really don't have a ton of control, sounds like you were doing great and just got literally cocky with some Oklobs. You probably are having a bad run. My advice is to play online, the drops are certified 0.001% better there. Sounds like you should stick with it, since you can use any weapon I'd say by Lair you should have something decent. I don't know what god but Okawaru's skill boost sounds quite good with gnolls and you'd get a hilarious variety of weapon gifts. Playing Gnoll will let you focus on gameplay instead of worrying about when to skill armor, charms, etc.
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Jan 15, 2018 19:33
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Once you get past midgame, the Hall of Blades in Elf2 has a lot of sentient weapons, most of which are good. Downside, there's lots of sentient weapons in the Hall of Blades, most of which are good.
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Jan 15, 2018 20:18
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The hall of blades is hilariously swingy no pun intended. Sometimes you swoop in and just handle it no problem. Other times you get swarmed and destroyed by latajangs for speed and warped execution axes.
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Jan 15, 2018 20:45
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Ash is also really strong for Gnolls.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:36
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Devlan Mud posted:Oklobs are one of the nastier threats that can't see invisibility, I would never try to take them down in Lair without invis.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:44
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I'm going to disagree and say that for a standard 3-rune run, equipment RNG isn't terribly relevant, even (especially?) for a smash-mans. Plate mail and BattleAxes are all but guaranteed in Orc, and reasonably-powered weapons of other types are common enough before Zot, even discluding the Hall of Blades. Sure, finding the idealized weapons for your current and near-future weapon skill levels gives you a huge power spike, but it's not needed. You can clear Lair with the Warrior's starting WarAxe. For the Gnoll posted above, a lot of those weapons are typically trash that wouldn't be usable by the normal smash-mans by the time those randarts are generated, sometimes because the smash-man has outgrown them and wants something heavier but more frequently because they're the wrong weapon type entirely. Gnolls are cool and unique in that they can take whatever low tier random crap the floor god gives out and work with it. Now Extended, otoh, is unfortunately not for everyone, and needs a char with strong lategame tools alongside a battery of resists. But that's extended, and needs work.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:46
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IronicDongz posted:you can always just walk away from oklobs, friend Unless you get one of those garbage floor layouts where all the stairs are in a room with oklobs
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Jan 16, 2018 07:45
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IronicDongz posted:
Internet Kraken posted:Unless you get one of those garbage floor layouts where all the stairs are in a room with oklobs Shut up, Donny.
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Jan 16, 2018 08:27
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Araganzar posted:You can get lucky but you shouldn't EXPECT to get a decent weapon until sometime in Lair or shortly after. Maybe later with long blades which are a poor choice if you want early drops. But every character starts with a great weapon - their fists 
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Jan 16, 2018 11:41
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Gooncrawl progress update:
Please go vote for the Blades of Disaster pull request if you haven't already: https://goo.gl/forms/oTgzmAkMKpmrbC203 It's still lacking enough votes for me to confidently close it. Even if you don't care one way or the other, just put in a vote for "I don't care" so I know you've looked at it! I'll also get around to updating the FR list soon (maybe today?) Also, I apologize to team Bring Back Everything. Despite the dev work, I haven't felt like actually playing Crawl enough to finish a game yet. Sorry for taking up a space!
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Jan 16, 2018 14:42
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Floodkiller posted:Gooncrawl progress update: Rename barachawhatevers to Hopkins plz.
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Jan 16, 2018 15:11
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I had assumed an I Don't Care vote was a waste of your time, so I hadn't voted. When it comes with new spells and items being added, I'm basically fine with whatever. New toys for me to be terrible at using! 
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Jan 16, 2018 16:44
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Zaodai posted:I had assumed an I Don't Care vote was a waste of your time, so I hadn't voted. Yeah I feel like we've had things taken away for so long that as long as stuff is added that isn't obviously godawful like item destruction or weight, I'm all for it
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Jan 16, 2018 16:46
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LordSloth posted:Particular race, good, class etc you tend to lean towards? Pressing # will leave a dump you can trim and share or just link the whole thing on pastebin. Or share a couple of morgue files on pastebin. I don't play the online version because my laptop can't load it. I'm playing .20 offline. Here's a screenshot of one of my recent runs.  I mostly play big ol' slabs of fighters, rotating through minotaur, troll, hill orc, and ghoul. Many minotaurs. I either go with maces or axes unless I find something amazing early, and I pour all my skillpoints into the weapon until it reaches 10, then figure out where to split them after that. My biggest problem is finding a path forward. Clear Lair, clear the Orcish Mines...and then what? Do I have the resists necessary for the rune dungeons? If not, alternate levels in Swamp and Shoals? I'm not exactly sure what I can handle with the gear I have (and wikis and Reddit are useless for this) so I die experimenting.
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Jan 16, 2018 18:11
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dont forget the rest of d through 15
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Jan 16, 2018 19:04
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Oh I should close/collate the crab survey. Last chance to get answers/thoughts in I guess until I get home
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Jan 16, 2018 20:51
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I'm the kinda guy who spent 5 years studying a 3 year STEM bachelor due to lack of effort/discipline yet losing a good run in this game to just underestimating some stack of vaguely magicky poo poo that just gets a lucky roll and paralyzes you makes me feel like a bigger idiot than any of my many actually life defining mistakes have I made. It's the Dark Souls of roguelikes but not just because it's hard, but because it wants you to drop your guard down for a second and then shoves you onto a sharpened rusty rebar.
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Jan 16, 2018 22:39
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queserasera posted:I don't play the online version because my laptop can't load it. I'm playing .20 offline. Here's a screenshot of one of my recent runs. The offline version also leaves dumps and morgues you can upload to pastebin in full. Re: Swamp and Shoals- even in the best of (non merfolk times) I'm not sure I can handle shoals. Though the best way is to not touch autoexplore at all, and do the first four floors without being too attached to completing it. The less you try to do, the safer you are by several fold moreso than usual. When I'm feeling moderately uncomfortable I stick to the safer areas for the floor loot and exp, with less chance of teleporting right next to the turtle of my death in panic. Sadly I'm not sure of which of my tricks for handling shoals still work so I'm going to have to hold back detailed advice for the moment. I remember changes to Mesmer, but not what they were for instance. I'll try to come back later, maybe after a gnoll run or two.
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Jan 16, 2018 22:53
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I made a post in the previous thread about how to handle Shoals, I'll try to find it unless  from being on mobile wins first.Edit: Found it! quote:PMush Perfect posted: girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 23:09
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Floodkiller posted:Gooncrawl progress update: Where on earth is the description of what this spell does? It sounds badass
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Jan 17, 2018 00:44
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quote:Blades of Disaster
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Jan 17, 2018 01:29
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I wish crawl would do what other games do when it comes to ease of casting and spells. I know I'm supposed to set everything up myself with macros but it's so much easier to log into dungeonmans and set spells 1-9 with icons and the Like
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Jan 17, 2018 01:40
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LordSloth posted:The offline version also leaves dumps and morgues you can upload to pastebin in full. I finally figured out where the morgue and save files were stored and every single character I ever made, every version, is in there. It's...kinda pathetic really. Here's the one I killed off earlier: https://pastebin.com/RyZpPc7P And this is one of my better ones. I hauled around spellbooks and set up fiery murder corridors. Hooray for Trog! https://pastebin.com/YYxuHtRk This is how they usually go. (Pasted in its entirety.) https://pastebin.com/ptE5RKAv Start dungeon > pick up a god (usually Okawaru, Cheibriados, or Trog) > get down to dungeon 10-12 > Lair 1-6 > Orc 1-2 > then what? Unless I'm supposed to do the first 1-2 levels of one area, then pick another area and clear a level or two, and cycle around like that? I also dive into every timed area like the sewers, pyramid, labyrinth, etc.
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Jan 17, 2018 05:28
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I usually go do Depths all the way up to Zot before I try most of the Lair branches, unless I get a branch that won't give me trouble on its earlier floors (ie spider on a character with sInv and appropriate resists, or snake on a character I'm confident is tough enough to tangle with weaker naga packs.) OFC I haven't really played the last two versions, so maybe take my advice with a hint of salt. For all I know Depths is infinitely more hellish than I remember now.
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Jan 17, 2018 05:50
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Holy poo poo I can't imagine doing depths before lair branches! There are caustic shrikes down there! 
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Jan 17, 2018 06:33
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Turtlicious posted:I wish crawl would do what other games do when it comes to ease of casting and spells. I know I'm supposed to set everything up myself with macros but it's so much easier to log into dungeonmans and set spells 1-9 with icons and the Like the irony of this is that DC:SS strives to be easy to understand with its UI and mouse controls, yet it's easier to stick to Nethack conventions than to click, which goes against the whole design 
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Jan 17, 2018 06:33
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queserasera posted:Start dungeon > pick up a god (usually Okawaru, Cheibriados, or Trog) > get down to dungeon 10-12 > Lair 1-6 > Orc 1-2 > then what? Unless I'm supposed to do the first 1-2 levels of one area, then pick another area and clear a level or two, and cycle around like that? I also dive into every timed area like the sewers, pyramid, labyrinth, etc. Clear dungeon to 15 before entering lair branches. If you're having trouble with them, clear one to floor 3, then do the other one. The rune vault is much nastier than the rest of the branch, so it makes sense to save it for later. I almost never do it, though. Also, remember that each branch has different threats and the enemies have different weaknesses and plan accordingly. Be sure to run away and split up packs in Snake, bring a ranged weapon and have a plan for how to deal with ghost moths or entropy weavers in spider, remember that most of shoals has low MR, so you can shut down impalers and javelineers with hex wands if you've been training evocations, etc.
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Jan 17, 2018 07:08
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someone awful. posted:Holy poo poo I can't imagine doing depths before lair branches! There are caustic shrikes down there! Oh, poo poo, I didn't mean depths to zot, I meant dungeons to depths. Don't give advice while tired, folks.
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Jan 17, 2018 13:36
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queserasera posted:I finally figured out where the morgue and save files were stored and every single character I ever made, every version, is in there. It's...kinda pathetic really. Here's the one I killed off earlier: 1. The most important thing is to add this to your rc file. hp_warning = 50 force_more_message += LOW HITPOINT WARNING 50% is a good time to think about options for retreating. You'll probably take hits while running away or teleporting and the default generally leaves you one lucky hit away from the morgue. 2. The earlier you apply a buff, the more effective it is. A might potion quaffed at 100% HP is twice as effective as one quaffed at 50%, and doesn't involve fighting at dangerous HP levels. This is one of the reasons Oka is so good for There are individual lessons to be learned (route ordering, wearing MR or running away from banishers, ID-ing potions as soon as possible), but I'd say the biggest step to winning games is looking at your inventory and realizing that nothing there is worth more than your life. Every time I die after D:1 I always see things like scrolls of teleportation (or even blinking), potions of haste, etc. in my inventory and think "and there I was, asleep at the switch again".
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Jan 17, 2018 19:15
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Clear dungeon to 15 before entering lair branches. If you're having trouble with them, clear one to floor 3, then do the other one. The rune vault is much nastier than the rest of the branch, so it makes sense to save it for later. I almost never do it, though. Also, remember that each branch has different threats and the enemies have different weaknesses and plan accordingly. Be sure to run away and split up packs in Snake, bring a ranged weapon and have a plan for how to deal with ghost moths or entropy weavers in spider, remember that most of shoals has low MR, so you can shut down impalers and javelineers with hex wands if you've been training evocations, etc. I also usually clear dungeon to 15 before doing the branches. The one thing I'd add is to be extremely careful on d15 itself because the vault for the depths entrance can be WAY more dangerous than the rest of the floor.
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Jan 17, 2018 20:17
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