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Count Roland posted:Being murdered en mass is bad, obviously. But the definition of genocide requires some specific group of people to be targeted. Ah, right, the Saudi are only starving Houthi militants, which is why toddlers are starving. Everyone knows children under five are when they are the most politically active. Imposing a blockade on a country that is not self-sufficient for food is organizing famine, and that in turn is tantamount to genocide against the national group of that country.
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Jan 17, 2018 22:02
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Count Roland posted:Being murdered en mass is bad, obviously. But the definition of genocide requires some specific group of people to be targeted. I don't acknowledge a meaningful difference.
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Jan 17, 2018 22:42
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It's genocide, homer.
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Jan 17, 2018 22:43
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I would say the blockade is aimed pretty squarely at the Ziyadis (the majority population in Northern Yemen and inside Houthi territory.)
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Jan 17, 2018 23:07
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Houthi is sort of a nickname, kinda the same thing as Wahabi, nobody actually refers themselves that way. Its the last name of the leader of the rebels/ansar allah/anti-government group. Like Wahabi, Daesh etc its sorta used in a pejorative sense.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:21
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Haystack posted:They're a tribal confederation, which is very much a type of government (despite centuries of western sneering). They're largely Zaidi shia, a distinct cultural-religious sect. As far as I understand, they represent the large majority of that population. This is a serious misunderstanding of the Houthi. They are absolutely not a tribal confederation. Yemen has several of those, one example is the Hashid tribal federation whose support propped up the Saleh regime. Much like IS, the Houthi have figured out how to incorporate elements of the tribal system into their more modern political movement. As in Syria, Libya, and Egypt, the old tribal confederacies of Yemen appear to have lost much of their capacity to organize independently, with sub-clans losing interest in maintaining an organized leadership hierarchy. Though tribal identity remains strong in many places, it is much more localized and disunited than it was 50 year ago. Also people familiar with the conflict in Iraq are apt to over estimate the significance of the Zaidi-Shafi'i split within Yemen. Western reporters will often hint at this circumstance by writing that Zaidis are "moderate" Shias, a somewhat nonsensical simplification of the theological distinctions, but it does convey how in their customs and beliefs Zaidi Yemenis are much more similar to their Shafi'i neighbors than the Sunnis and Shias of Iraq and especially Syria are to one another. There is just much less cultural weight attached to sect in Yemen. The one thing Yemenis seem to agree on is that they are all Yemeni. Separatism was toxic for most Yemenis before the war, though the current conflict may have changed that a bit in parts of the south. Saleh would routinely denounce the Houthi as separatists, while after they seized Saana they denounced their southern opponents for the same reason. Radio Prune has the right of it. Yemen is not an ethnic conflict. Religion has something to do with it, but it's not the whole story. the Houthi are a big tent political movement like the Republican party, though perhaps slightly more dominated by conservative rural religious wackos.
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Jan 18, 2018 01:39
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Haystack posted:They're a tribal confederation, which is very much a type of government (despite centuries of western sneering). They're largely Zaidi shia, a distinct cultural-religious sect. As far as I understand, they represent the large majority of that population. The chain of events often referred to as the Armenian Genocide took place before the modern day Turkey was established in 1923, and Turks weren't the only party that were involved in inter-communal violence and brigand activity; e.g. Kurdish Hamidiye Battalions are responsible for many Armanian civilian casualties and there've also been quite a lot of non-Armenian casualties inflicted by Armenian brigands and insurgents cooperating with Imperial Russian invasion efforts. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 18, 2018 02:41
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almighty posted:The chain of events often referred to as the Armenian Genocide took place before the modern day Turkey was established in 1923, and Turks weren't the only party that were involved in inter-communal violence and brigand activity; e.g. Kurdish Hamidiye Battalions are responsible for many Armanian civilian casualties and there've also been quite a lot of non-Armenian casualties inflicted by Armenian brigands and insurgents cooperating with Imperial Russian invasion efforts. It's a lot like people trying to make Germany take responsibility for the holocaust: Germany didnt even exist after WW2! their freaken capital was cut in half. Also other countries helped too
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Jan 18, 2018 02:44
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Flavahbeast posted:It's a lot like people trying to make Germany take responsibility for the holocaust: Germany didnt even exist after WW2! their freaken capital was cut in half. Also other countries helped too I'm glad someone else has finally caught on that almighty is nothing but a stereotypical Turkish fascist. Usually his posts just go by unnoticed and uncommented, which made me wonder if I was the only one who could see them.
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Jan 18, 2018 06:28
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Haystack posted:Funny you should bring up Turkey, since the Armenians are kind of the ur-example of a religious minority getting genocided by an ethnically identical sectarian oppressor. There's a difference between ethnicity and genetics, the article brings up the case, well known to those familiar with its history, that the majority of Turks in the Republic of Turkey are descended mostly from the pre-Turkish inhabitants of Anatolia (Armenians, Greek-speakers, and so on) who began to be assimilated by the Muslim Turks after they arrived in large numbers in the 11th century, though assimilation hadn't really started to seriously occur until circa the 13th century. There is a component of Central Asian Turks ofcourse, those were the ruling military class and the old dynasties can claim descent from these, but compared to the native component their impact isn't that great in terms of genetics due to their comparitively limited number compared to the much more numerous native agriculturalists. Anyway the Turks and Armenians being genetically very close does not make them ethnically close at all, ethnicity is largely about perception and identification (by self and others) not genetics. almighty posted:The chain of events often referred to as the Armenian Genocide took place before the modern day Turkey was established in 1923, and Turks weren't the only party that were involved in inter-communal violence and brigand activity; e.g. Kurdish Hamidiye Battalions are responsible for many Armanian civilian casualties and there've also been quite a lot of non-Armenian casualties inflicted by Armenian brigands and insurgents cooperating with Imperial Russian invasion efforts. That doesn't mean that blaim can't be traced through to Turkey, especially as it is the clearest successor of the Ottoman Empire (which largely was on its way to embracing Turkish nationalism as its core ideology by this time anyway), in particular when it comes to the army (have a look at how many establishing figures of the Turkish Republic who rose from the Ottoman Army) which bears primary responsibility for carrying out the deportations that led to genocide, local Kurds and Kurdish paramilitary groups being complicit is important to note, but it doesn't change the fact or blame of genocide.
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Jan 18, 2018 06:52
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Gimmick Account posted:I'm glad someone else has finally caught on that almighty is nothing but a stereotypical Turkish fascist. Usually his posts just go by unnoticed and uncommented, which made me wonder if I was the only one who could see them. I noticed.
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Jan 18, 2018 07:16
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almighty posted:The chain of events often referred to as the Armenian Genocide took place before the modern day Turkey was established in 1923, and Turks weren't the only party that were involved in inter-communal violence and brigand activity; e.g. Kurdish Hamidiye Battalions are responsible for many Armanian civilian casualties and there've also been quite a lot of non-Armenian casualties inflicted by Armenian brigands and insurgents cooperating with Imperial Russian invasion efforts. No, they weren’t the only part, but they spearheaded it and unlike the Kurds have been unapologetic about it. And unlike the Kurdish community that seems to be something the Turkish community is incapable of doing: admitting they did something wrong.
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Jan 18, 2018 07:22
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almighty posted:The chain of events often referred to as the Armenian Genocide took place before the modern day Turkey was established in 1923, and Turks weren't the only party that were involved in inter-communal violence and brigand activity; e.g. Kurdish Hamidiye Battalions are responsible for many Armanian civilian casualties and there've also been quite a lot of non-Armenian casualties inflicted by Armenian brigands and insurgents cooperating with Imperial Russian invasion efforts. Cool genocide denial/apologism bro!
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Jan 18, 2018 07:55
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Squalid posted:This is a serious misunderstanding of the Houthi. They are absolutely not a tribal confederation. Yemen has several of those, one example is the Hashid tribal federation whose support propped up the Saleh regime. Much like IS, the Houthi have figured out how to incorporate elements of the tribal system into their more modern political movement. As in Syria, Libya, and Egypt, the old tribal confederacies of Yemen appear to have lost much of their capacity to organize independently, with sub-clans losing interest in maintaining an organized leadership hierarchy. Though tribal identity remains strong in many places, it is much more localized and disunited than it was 50 year ago. The issue isn't the Yemen Civil War in itself but the Saudi blockade, and if the Saudis are using it specifically against the Ziyadi population itself. Admittedly, it is a tricky answer, but that is the question at hand. There does seem to be a significant degree of collective punishment involved, especially since Houthi control and majority Ziyadi areas pretty much overlap. I don't know if the present-day Turkish population should really be punished, but the Turkish national movement heavily recruited from Ottoman officials and it does help that within practically a decade they were also going after Kurds as well. For at least the sake of veracity, we know who did what. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 08:54
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Darkman Fanpage posted:And unlike the Kurdish community that seems to be something the Turkish community is incapable of doing: admitting they did something wrong. Ehh... I doubt Wikipedia is exhaustive but https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_recognition_of_the_Armenian_Genocide Especially Ocalan’s « recognition » is glaring, as he basically says that « it was the Turks!!! gently caress the Turks! We and the Armenians are brothers against evil ». The PKK recognition also mainly blames outside powers for manipulating some Kurdish factions. The KDP declaration is similarly weak. So there are some genuine apologies here but all from bit players.
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Jan 18, 2018 09:34
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Turkey being told to eat poo poo. https://twitter.com/reutersworld/status/953956572610416641
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Jan 18, 2018 16:17
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Oh no! Not the vaunted Syrian air defenses!
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Jan 18, 2018 16:31
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Ikasuhito posted:Oh no! Not the vaunted Syrian air defenses! Well, Syrian air defenses already cost Turkey an aircraft and two dead aviators.
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Jan 18, 2018 16:41
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Is Turkey still using jailed, purged, pilots in its air force?
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Jan 18, 2018 19:41
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Communist Zombie posted:Is Turkey still using jailed, purged, pilots in its air force?
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Jan 18, 2018 19:45
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https://twitter.com/ClaudiaAlMina/status/954065474047836165 It's going to feel real bad if we end up having to watch Turkey roll through Kobane after the heroic battle against ISIS the YPG won (with US support) there. Edit: After the Coalition said we're staying the hell out of it, the US State Department just called on Turkey not to attack Afrin. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 20:13
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Deso Dogg got killed according to ISIS media.
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Jan 19, 2018 08:08
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Volkerball posted:Deso Dogg got killed according to ISIS media. I'm surprised he didn't escape or got put in a SVBIED earlier like so many other western ISIS recruits.
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Jan 19, 2018 08:42
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Sinteres posted:https://twitter.com/ClaudiaAlMina/status/954065474047836165 I rather doubt Turkey is going to rolling through anything. They'd be launching an invasion through Kurdish areas of Turkey into territory they have exactly zero friends in, Arab or Kurd. It'd turn into a total quagmire right away and require an inhumanely oppressive occupation. Not that Turkey isn't capable of repression, but I don't think it'd be that simple considering all the other actors running around in Syria. They'd be forcing Rojava into a definate alliance with Assad with an invasion, and ensuring that the war for independence spreads again to Turkish territory.
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Jan 19, 2018 09:18
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Zudgemud posted:I'm surprised he didn't escape or got put in a SVBIED earlier like so many other western ISIS recruits. Relatively speaking, he was famous. ISIS has been using that all along. Deso Dogg is I think second only to jihadi John when it comes to high profile western ISIS operatives.
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Jan 19, 2018 16:38
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Sure seems like something's gotta give around Manbij one way or another. https://twitter.com/rabrowne75/status/954379535348322304
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Jan 19, 2018 16:48
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Sinteres posted:Sure seems like something's gotta give around Manbij one way or another. Gosh there's no way this could end up going badly in the near future.
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Jan 19, 2018 19:06
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Cool genocide denial/apologism bro! The thing about Turkey compared to Germany or Japan is that unlike the latter two, the modern, post-1923 Turkish nation-state is based on ideological and institutional foundations that could not exist without the genocide having happened, and so you can't go very far beyond "we're sorry you're offended" in terms of apologies without necessarily undermining the entire modern political project. Ethnic Turks were only like 50% of the population within the modern borders of Turkey in 1914, the rest were Greeks, Armenians and Kurds. Meaningful recognition of the genocide would require acknowledging those groups as legitimate fellow citizens, and if your political identity is based around being a unitary, Turkish-only monocultural nation-state, you obviously can't do that. To say that the Armenian genocide shouldn't have happened is basically to say that Ataturk's Turkey should not have come into existence in the fist place
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Jan 20, 2018 00:52
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Data-stealing spyware 'traced to Lebanon' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42746772 Not sure what (if anything) this will entail.
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Jan 20, 2018 06:27
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hey it seems like turkey basically just invaded rojava?
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Jan 20, 2018 06:56
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Seems like Russia pulled out its people there right before it happened (despite their denials). And IS ofc announces a push to take their poo poo back in the east from YPG literally hours after it kicks off - nice job Turkey!
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Jan 20, 2018 09:12
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Kanine posted:hey it seems like turkey basically just invaded rojava? Source?
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Jan 20, 2018 14:25
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Count Roland posted:Source? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42747702 quote:Turkish Defence Minister Nurettin Canikli said the shelling was the "de-facto start" of a planned invasion of Afrin.
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Jan 20, 2018 14:27
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CrazyLoon posted:And IS ofc announces a push to take their poo poo back in the east from YPG literally hours after it kicks off - nice job Turkey! If there's been one thing that has been clear throughout all the Syrian civil war, it's that Turkey and Daesh are de facto allies.
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Jan 20, 2018 15:20
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Still not hearing anything about any movement by the army, but it looks like their airforce has started to step up their bombing. https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/954723332548677633 https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/954728067511062535 Ikasuhito fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 15:52
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https://twitter.com/MuntasrBillahTR/status/954661731040727040 what a time to be alive
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Jan 20, 2018 16:13
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Yeah I saw that too. "De-facto started" coming from Erdogan doesn't actually mean a whole lot. I'll wait for reports that armed men are moving into Afrin. Who do you guys follow on twitter for this sort of thing? e^^: wow that instrument is almost as annoying as bagpipes Count Roland fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 16:22
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Russia's supposedly planning to demand a halt to the Turkish attack at the UN, so it'll be interesting to see if Turkey's NATO allies will withhold their vetoes.
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Jan 20, 2018 17:32
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The operation name for the Turkish offensive in Afrin is Operation Olive Branch 
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Jan 20, 2018 17:45
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Darkman Fanpage posted:The operation name for the Turkish offensive in Afrin is Operation Olive Branch The scrapped operation name was Operation gently caress You which was deemed too on the nose by focus groups.
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Jan 20, 2018 17:47
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