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I read that Psycho Jenny might actually be a representative for God and is basically helping out by being Satan's steward/jailer? She's one of the very few beings aware of the time loop and whose responsibility is to make sure Satan fulfills his role, realization, and punishment, over and over again. If that's true, that makes her an even MORE messed up and interesting little fluffball.
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Jan 22, 2018 06:03
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That would be actually really cool if that was the case.
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Jan 22, 2018 06:17
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Smoking Crow posted:I don't remember any of the music in this show other than Ryo's because it sounds like Jake the Snake devilman is actually just that plotline where jake the snake seemed like he was helping train the undertaker but then backstabbed him in the end
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Jan 22, 2018 06:26
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like a cigarette should posted:I read that Psycho Jenny might actually be a representative for God and is basically helping out by being Satan's steward/jailer? She's one of the very few beings aware of the time loop and whose responsibility is to make sure Satan fulfills his role, realization, and punishment, over and over again. In a Devilman manga sequel Jenny helps Ryo and Akira gather an army to fight God, but the ending is left unresolved so it's still a possibility. But it's also indicated that Jenny can mask her presence from God completely, which is why she knows about the time loop. Jenny is a lot more mysterious in Crybaby. They hint that she might have been manipulating Ryo's memories, and restores them herself, but it could also just be Ryo coming to his own epiphany through self-knowledge. Her ability to implant & manipulate memories is never even a real plot point or confirmed, so anything goes. Although, a big departure from the manga continuity in Crybaby is that In Crybaby Jenny gets killed by humans, but she never dies in the original manga. She disappears completely from the pages after restoring Ryo's memories. Pener Kropoopkin fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 07:00
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How many beings are aware of the time loop? Jenny, Satan, I think Akira in Devilman Lady, and God?
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Jan 22, 2018 07:19
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Smoking Crow posted:Nagai, tezuka, ishinomori and matsumoto are the Big Dudes imo You forgot Yokoyama.
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Jan 22, 2018 07:36
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Alan_Shore posted:How many beings are aware of the time loop? Jenny, Satan, I think Akira in Devilman Lady, and God? Afaik it's just Jenny. Akira and Ryo are only aware of previous cycles if their memories are restored.
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Jan 22, 2018 07:40
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https://twitter.com/papprica_/status/954813388097572864Alan_Shore posted:How many beings are aware of the time loop? Jenny, Satan, I think Akira in Devilman Lady, and God? Only Jenny, and God. Akira doesn't know it's a loop, he thinks it's an alternate reality, and has no idea why there's no records of his struggle excepting a comic book.
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Jan 22, 2018 07:41
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I recall one of Jenny's powers was being able to jump into and out of alternate realities and actually warp how reality worked. Crybaby Psycho Jenny is actually one of the weaker versions as that tactic that beat her here would have never worked in most adaptions. I recall original Manga Jenny also both wiped Satan's memories and restored them.
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Jan 22, 2018 08:55
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Afaik it's just Jenny. Akira and Ryo are only aware of previous cycles if their memories are restored. True, I was counting Satan when he gets his memory restored, but it's then erased again (I forgot Akira thought it was an alternate reality). Though doesn't Devilman Lady end with them realizing it's a time loop, banding together and going off to fight God? This story is insane and I love it.
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Jan 22, 2018 09:16
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So basically every incarnation of Devilman that will ever be is also canon because its just another wrinkle in the timeloop? That really is the greatest hell of all, might as well just make them eventually figure out they're just fictional characters and God is the animator/Go Nagai himself.
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Jan 22, 2018 12:00
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See Nagai Go World.
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Jan 22, 2018 12:27
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why does ryo know what an amon is if he didnt know he was satan till episode 9
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Jan 22, 2018 12:30
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Tired Moritz posted:why does ryo know what an amon is if he didnt know he was satan till episode 9 subconciously, he knew it's what makes him think "there's something going on with my memories, how did I know even back then how things were going to go"
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Jan 22, 2018 12:34
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why didnt they make ryo an devil in disguise from the getgo instead of having jenny give him exposition memories
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Jan 22, 2018 12:38
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Tired Moritz posted:why didnt they make ryo an devil in disguise from the getgo instead of having jenny give him exposition memories There's a lot of subtle background things giving it away When god smote russia, Ryo had the same exact reactions as the demons his apartment number was 666 there was other things but those were the only ones I remember off the top of my head
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Jan 22, 2018 12:40
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Tired Moritz posted:why does ryo know what an amon is if he didnt know he was satan till episode 9 Ryo didn't think about it because he had some other stuff on his mind.     tithin posted:There's a lot of subtle background things giving it away God wipes out the American fleet, but the admiral is the same demon who was the Soviet General Secretary in the manga. Ryo could never be a devil in disguise, because he's an angel with divine origins, so it makes sense that he'd be reborn into the world by a divine conception. It's much cooler and more thematically fitting than in the manga, where he literally walked out of a glacier and assumed the identity of Ryo Asuka for a couple years. Also, it's great that Shinzo Abe is a demon, even if they don't show it on screen. e: quote:http://comicbook.com/anime/2018/01/18/devilman-crybaby-director-responds-to-one-critic-s-controversial/ It seems sort of obvious that "international" anime would be stuff that appeals to an international audience, as opposed to titles that only Japanese people could relate to. The fear that popular anime could overshadow stuff that's uniquely Japanese just feels like a deeply reactionary attitude that isn't really founded in reality. Pener Kropoopkin fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 12:43
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Okay, seriously, what the gently caress is "subculture" Japanese nerds seem really obsessed with how much "subculture" sucks and yet their use of the word (in contexts like that review and Pop Team Epic) has basically no relation at all to what I understand the word to mean e: also yeah, that guy sounds like a huge idiot rear end in a top hat and i really hope he's getting ripped in the comments
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Jan 22, 2018 14:21
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Okay, seriously, what the gently caress is "subculture" 
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Jan 22, 2018 14:24
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Okay, seriously, what the gently caress is "subculture" He's apologized about insulting the show and its creators, but afaik he hasn't taken back what he said about subculture vs. otaku. The Anime News Network article explained it a little but I don't get it either. Apparently "subculture" is something that is neither otaku nor mainstream in Japan, and I guess the implication is that subculture stuff primarily has an appeal to international audiences? It sounds like the issue here is that Japanese otaku are afraid of the medium being influenced by foreign sensibilities, when they want to keep watching stuff that's just meant for them? It's hard not to see a parallel to gamergate, but instead of fearing feminist influence they're afraid of foreign influence.
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Jan 22, 2018 14:27
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That was how i interpreted "subculture" in this context too. Like, a western "cultural apropriation" of anime. It's an interesting topic imo. I remember when Godzilla (2014), Ghost in the Shell and even Netflix's death note where announced, a lot of articles (from western media) starting popping up crying foul for a perceived whitewashing of the cast. From what i understand, Japan in general was cool with that. But maybe is different for anime?
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Jan 22, 2018 14:48
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MarsDragon posted:You forgot Yokoyama. I forgot Pener Kropoopkin posted:gamergate ABORT ABORT ABORT
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Jan 22, 2018 14:52
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Personal_Nirvana posted:But maybe is different for anime? Being foreign adaptations means they don't have to care about it I suppose. They're not "official." Ghost in the Shell did end up being a huge piece of poo poo as an adaptation and a film on its own, so not caring was the right move.
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Jan 22, 2018 14:56
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Being foreign adaptations means they don't have to care about it I suppose. They're not "official." Ghost in the Shell did end up being a huge piece of poo poo as an adaptation and a film on its own, so not caring was the right move. Death Note loving ruled (and had the original mangaka's 100% approval)
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Jan 22, 2018 14:58
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From my understanding "subculture" in this case means anything that's not hardcore otaku pandering
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Jan 22, 2018 15:03
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honestly, the more i think about this the more confused i get. this series is absolutely hardcore otaku pandering. it's a faithful adaptation of a 45-year-old Go Nagai series that most non-otaku had never heard of prior to Crybaby but most otaku loving revere. is it... somehow not pandering to otaku because they actually tried to make a good series instead of just crapping out some low-effort nonsense? because the simple fact that Devilman Crybaby exists, at all, is in and of itself Netflix trying to pander to otaku.
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Jan 22, 2018 15:20
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It's probably someone that thinks that the western perception of anime is still sex & violence cartoons, which is still somewhat still true, which is why it got chosen to be a major Netflix thing instead of something more representative of current anime trends. That it's based on a classic and influential manga is seen as less important than why it was chosen to have a bunch of Netflix money poured in.
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Jan 22, 2018 15:27
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Crybaby isn't really an "otaku" work, and neither is any of the other stuff Yuasa's directed. Otaku stuff caters particularly to the desires of its fans, and doesn't have any appeal to people outside of those circles. That's part of why "otaku" anime features so much fanservice, because the point is to drive fans to buy merchandise to give the property its profitability. Crybaby is in a lot of ways anti-fanservice, and does everything it can to subvert and deny the desires of the audience. The original Devilman isn't otaku either. It may be seminal to manga and anime as genre-defining, but the reason it's seminal in the first place is because it deals with universal themes and goes way beyond a simple satisfying adventure story, perverted teen coming of age story, or a monster-of-the-week fighting story. Devilman had such a broad appeal outside of Japan that Rob Zombie did a song about it. In contrast to all of that, otaku works are private and insular. They're meant for you and the rest of an inner circle of people who it's catered to. It's not for "normies," and especially not for foreigners. e: being fair to Kurose, he's not heavily invested into an "otaku" vs. subculture dynamic, so much as he is about the categorization of international and non-international anime. The fear being that foreign distributors and producers won't be interested in the kind of non-violent dramas, comedies, and so on which more fully round out anime as a medium. That Japanese culture will be misrepresented as gory, oversexualized schlock. Pener Kropoopkin fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 15:50
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:e: being fair to Kurose, he's not heavily invested into an "otaku" vs. subculture dynamic, so much as he is about the categorization of international and non-international anime. The fear being that foreign distributors and producers won't be interested in the kind of non-violent dramas, comedies, and so on which more fully round out anime as a medium. That Japanese culture will be misrepresented as gory, oversexualized schlock. I would buy this argument if he said he was worried about misrepresenting Japanese culture and anime, but he focused on this idea of "arthouse" and "self-importance". If your argument holds water, then that means Kurose thinks that gory oversexualization is what the international community wants or views as important artsy media. I think the concern he voices is really about foreign influence on their own media/medium. He is contrasting himself with other people who review it positively by saying that it is "international-level anime" or "anime that can compete globally." He called Devilman Crybaby a "domestic disease" and faults it for not utilizing Japanese anime culture, which is absurd in its face because it originated the form and a whole genre of anime and manga! Evangelion would have never existed without Devilman Crybaby. The concern isn't about sexualization and goriness because then Berserk and any of the shows with excessive fanservice would have the same critique. The writer is worried about catering to a non-otaku and/or non-Japanese audience.
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Jan 22, 2018 19:37
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Endorph posted:Even after seven clarifications ANN still hasn't explained that dude's complaint. He's mad about increasing western influence/attempts to pander to westerners in anime, which are often wrongheaded and stupid and hurt the creators. The director of Shirobako got chewed out a few months ago for his show 'not appealing to westerners at all,' even though it's passably popular in the West. Devilman Crybaby was funded by Netflix, a western company, so that guy was using it as a springboard to talk about his issues with Japanese artists and creators having to sacrifice their own visions to appeal to people from countries they've never been to.
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Jan 22, 2018 19:44
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Okay, seriously, what the gently caress is "subculture" Maybe it's closer to "low culture"?
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Jan 22, 2018 20:14
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Subculture Club
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Jan 22, 2018 20:17
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Filthy secondaries?
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Jan 22, 2018 20:56
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Deculture
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Jan 22, 2018 21:14
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DomCulture
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Jan 22, 2018 21:16
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:In contrast to all of that, otaku works are private and insular. They're meant for you and the rest of an inner circle of people who it's catered to. It's not for "normies," and especially not for foreigners. anime was a mistake
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Jan 22, 2018 21:48
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:honestly, the more i think about this the more confused i get. this series is absolutely hardcore otaku pandering. it's a faithful adaptation of a 45-year-old Go Nagai series that most non-otaku had never heard of prior to Crybaby but most otaku loving revere. is it... somehow not pandering to otaku because they actually tried to make a good series instead of just crapping out some low-effort nonsense? because the simple fact that Devilman Crybaby exists, at all, is in and of itself Netflix trying to pander to otaku. The logic is it's not pandering to otaku because it's on Netflix, as if hardcore nerds don't also subscribe to Netflix and yes, that logic is absolutely buckwild because that'd also have to apply to Studio Trigger because Little Witch Academia is a Netflix anime, and it doesn't because Trigger branched off from Gainax and it also doesn't work because the logic is dumb and broken. Like, it's an adaptation of a manga that isn't well-known in the mainstream but was a huge inspiration for people like Anno and Gen Urobuchi, and adapted by a guy who does a lot of experimental, artsy shows. It's absolutely for huge nerds.
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Jan 22, 2018 22:37
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What exactly is the overall reception of crybaby in japan? Sounds like generally positive but reading about that dude makes me wonder if there's any notable differences in reception compared to here
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Jan 22, 2018 22:45
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Protoculture
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Jan 22, 2018 22:46
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ninjewtsu posted:What exactly is the overall reception of crybaby in japan? Sounds like generally positive but reading about that dude makes me wonder if there's any notable differences in reception compared to here only 8 new pages on pixiv since it aired, and a fair amount of that is of the old show (or worse, western art. disgusting!). a huge failure in my book
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Jan 22, 2018 22:55
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