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i'm cool with whatever, but im just a simpleton who is pleased with being able to watch a new star trek every week
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Jan 23, 2018 18:20
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Dr. Video Games 0081 posted:Q presents in the aspect of a person but he is not a person in the sense that Data, Picard, or the horta are, and I don't think he has the same moral responsibilities as a person. If Worf redirected the ship to rendezvous with the Borg and it brought about the death of some of the crew, he would be morally at fault for their deaths. But that's because he has the same existential conditions as the people who died: he was born, he lives a life occupying a specific trajectory in space and time, he will die and cease to exist, and his coming death is always a concern to him. But Q, with his different access to time, knows that these concerns are illusory: a death today and a death 40 years from now are the same. Q is aware that their little "trek" across the stars is all a TV show.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:21
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Oh was last night there finale?
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Jan 23, 2018 18:23
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Oh was last night there finale? Nah there's still a few more
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Jan 23, 2018 18:23
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So I've been pretty harsh on STD watching only the pilot, but seeing a bit more I can see why people have said the show has gotten better. I still think it's a mediocre show and a terrible trek but I get why some people are able to get some enjoyment out of it. I'm just really morbidly curious where the ridiculous plot goes now.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:27
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I actually think Discovery started mediocre, got better just before the break, and has now taken a nosedive with the MU episodes. I can’t wait to be done with this plot.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:33
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Dr. Video Games 0081 posted:Q presents in the aspect of a person but he is not a person in the sense that Data, Picard, or the horta are, and I don't think he has the same moral responsibilities as a person. If Worf redirected the ship to rendezvous with the Borg and it brought about the death of some of the crew, he would be morally at fault for their deaths. But that's because he has the same existential conditions as the people who died: he was born, he lives a life occupying a specific trajectory in space and time, he will die and cease to exist, and his coming death is always a concern to him. But Q, with his different access to time, knows that these concerns are illusory: a death today and a death 40 years from now are the same. This sounds like Christian apologetics.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:36
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Look, did Q cuck Picard or did he take Vash to make Picard jealous like, "Oh look I find this other human so much more interesting than you"?
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Jan 23, 2018 18:46
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:This sounds like Christian apologetics. Then Q answered Picard out of the nebula, saying, “Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up your loins like a Klingon, I will question you, and you shall declare to me.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:46
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I actually think Discovery started mediocre, got better just before the break, and has now taken a nosedive with the MU episodes. I can’t wait to be done with this plot. The mirror stuff is definitely very different. It's very grimdark and tongue-in-cheek, kind of like a higher production value version of the late DS9 mirror episodes where Worf is dragging Garak around on a leash. I think it's more fun than the first half of the season but I'm pretty much ready for it to conclude.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:48
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PostNouveau posted:Look, did Q cuck Picard or did he take Vash to make Picard jealous like, "Oh look I find this other human so much more interesting than you"? Stewart left his wife for Jennifer Hetrick, so I think Picard won.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:48
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Baronjutter posted:So I've been pretty harsh on STD watching only the pilot, but seeing a bit more I can see why people have said the show has gotten better. I still think it's a mediocre show and a terrible trek but I get why some people are able to get some enjoyment out of it. I'm just really morbidly curious where the ridiculous plot goes now. The main reason anyone even cares about the show is because it's Star Trek and there hasn't been any new Trek in a long time. Otherwise it's a hilariously lovely "prestige" not-cable drama about as deeply written as a 13 year old's goth poetry I hope the next year is a huge improvement for the show but they've so thoroughly sabotaged most of their characters I can't imagine that happening unless the ship blows up or something and the new season follows an entirely different crew
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Jan 23, 2018 18:56
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:This sounds like Christian apologetics. Yeah, but Q is real
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Jan 23, 2018 19:04
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Sisko punched Q and Q never messed with him again. In that punch Q realized sisko had wormhole alien blood and was thus off-limits.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:09
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Mike the TV posted:Even so, dozens of crew died in that specific episode when the Borg sliced open the Enterprise. If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:11
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Baronjutter posted:Sisko punched Q and Q never messed with him again. In that punch Q realized sisko had wormhole alien blood and was thus off-limits. He still hosed with him for the rest of the episode, although admittedly only by omission.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:12
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Speaking of the Borg, in the season one finale of TNG with the reintroduction of the Romulans, were the missing outposts supposed to be the work of the parasite aliens, or was it something that was retconned to being done by the Borg, considering that's what they do in other episodes?
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Jan 23, 2018 19:22
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If I was a Q, my gesture to use my Q powers would be jazz hands
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Jan 23, 2018 19:48
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Sash! posted:If I was a Q, my gesture to use my Q powers would be jazz hands 
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Jan 23, 2018 19:50
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EvilTaytoMan posted:Speaking of the Borg, in the season one finale of TNG with the reintroduction of the Romulans, were the missing outposts supposed to be the work of the parasite aliens, or was it something that was retconned to being done by the Borg, considering that's what they do in other episodes? It was, IIRC, always intended to be the Borg, who at that point in development, were an insectoid hive mind and at some points may have been the Conspiracy worm-bugs, and I think it was supposed to be addressed in the next season opener? Then Season 2 happened with all the garbage production aftermath of Season 1, Gene’s increasing derangement, etc etc, and by the time things were straightened out, it was too late to mention the outposts lest you bring up the dread specter of… serialization.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:54
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Sash! posted:If I was a Q, my gesture to use my Q powers would be jazz hands I would totally mime a blowjob.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:58
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Sash! posted:If I was a Q, my gesture to use my Q powers would be jazz hands Rainbow farts.
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Jan 23, 2018 20:20
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Pieces of Peace posted:It was, IIRC, always intended to be the Borg, who at that point in development, were an insectoid hive mind and at some points may have been the Conspiracy worm-bugs, and I think it was supposed to be addressed in the next season opener? Then Season 2 happened with all the garbage production aftermath of Season 1, Gene’s increasing derangement, etc etc, and by the time things were straightened out, it was too late to mention the outposts lest you bring up the dread specter of… serialization. The original idea of the Borg (as they were later named), and the basic idea of Q Who?, was that they were the aliens communicated to at the end of Conspiracy. However it was decided that the effects and prop work would be prohibitively expensive and so the Borg were developed since their makeup could consist of white makeup, a bodysuit, some vacuformed pieces and a whole bunch of coax cable. The Neutral Zone was always intended as a precursor to the full introduction of that enemy.
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Jan 23, 2018 20:34
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Epicurius posted:That's why I love mock newspapers in TV shows/movies. They put in the headlines, and maybe, like in that example, some text, but most of it is either lorem ipsem or text they took from old newspapera. when i make prop newspapers i use articles from the paper whos style im cribbing from the same date the show is supposed to take place on, or as close as i can get. from the SAME SECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and my layout is pixel. perfect. recreation. even tho nobody will ever see it or care, except me, i care.
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Jan 23, 2018 21:02
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Tighclops posted:The main reason anyone even cares about the show is because it's Star Trek and there hasn't been any new Trek in a long time. Otherwise it's a hilariously lovely "prestige" not-cable drama about as deeply written as a 13 year old's goth poetry I mean, not really. I know quite a few people who are enjoying discovery, and the most obvious thing they have in common is not having given a poo poo about previous star treks. Honestly this is probably a vast improvement over the pre-existing trekkie fanbase 
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Jan 23, 2018 21:31
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Bohemian Nights posted:I mean, not really. I know quite a few people who are enjoying discovery, and the most obvious thing they have in common is not having given a poo poo about previous star treks.
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Jan 23, 2018 21:34
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:This sounds like Christian apologetics. Picard is profoundly more limited than Q, but Picard has a moral and ethical grounding which he adheres to even when sorely tested. You could break Picard - the Cardassians get in the near occasion of doing so - but you can't compromise him without breaking him. Q, by contrast, has power so profound it is just accurately summarized as "omnipotence." But when introduced, as I recall - and I could be forgetting a lot of old details of TNG here - he does not really have a moral perspective. Any limits he has set himself for the purposes of loving with people is just that: Creating a game where there are meaningful "stakes" and thus he can in some sense be "beaten." Q also is clearly not fundamentally satisfied with himself; his power did not come with wisdom or a relief from suffering, even if of course his suffering is much more distant and abstract than that of a starving Rigelian orphan. Now I want to re-watch the Q episodes with this idea in mind. (And of course, the Sisko, for all his literary greatness, lacks this moral freight, so Q interrogates him once, gets popped in the mouth, and punches out.) e: I also think Q is not looking for a Christ figure, which is another reason Sisko's got nothing for him. Picard as I recall is not portrayed as anything other than an exceptional, but not anomalous example of Federation society, vs. Sisko wormhole stuff. (Writing-wise that may not have been anywhere near decided yet at that time, of course.) Nessus fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 21:41
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I've watched every series of star trek. And that's why i'm glad it's dead. They did nothing with it. It went nowhere and then they finally killed it with Enterprise. Old Trek was not cruelly put down in its prime. It was a sickly old man with Ebola, bleeding from every orifice. And yes, someone dug up the corpse and is now waving its arms about and performing a macabre ventriloquist show called 'The Orville' but if we ignore them they'll stop.
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Jan 23, 2018 21:47
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Baronjutter posted:So I've been pretty harsh on STD watching only the pilot, but seeing a bit more I can see why people have said the show has gotten better. I still think it's a mediocre show and a terrible trek but I get why some people are able to get some enjoyment out of it. I'm just really morbidly curious where the ridiculous plot goes now. 
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Jan 23, 2018 21:49
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Bohemian Nights posted:I mean, not really. I know quite a few people who are enjoying discovery, and the most obvious thing they have in common is not having given a poo poo about previous star treks. Honestly this is probably a vast improvement over the pre-existing trekkie fanbase That's honestly one of the things I find most objectionable about Discovery, aside from some of its fans. I don't think new Star Trek shows should be chained to every penny-ante bit of canon from previous series, but it'd be nice if they added to the universe without making GBS threads over most of what came before it. TNG managed to do that, and that's one big reason why it gained such a following after the initial new-show controversy wore off. Enterprise and Discovery seem to have one thing in common: not giving a poo poo about consistency and just taking a wrecking ball to it. That's why I don't pay much attention to most post-DS9 Trek.
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Jan 23, 2018 21:49
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:That's honestly one of the things I find most objectionable about Discovery, aside from some of its fans. I don't think new Star Trek shows should be chained to every penny-ante bit of canon from previous series, but it'd be nice if they added to the universe without making GBS threads over most of what came before it. TNG managed to do that, and that's one big reason why it gained such a following after the initial new-show controversy wore off. Enterprise and Discovery seem to have one thing in common: not giving a poo poo about consistency and just taking a wrecking ball to it. That's why I don't pay much attention to most post-DS9 Trek. Which is why I can't blame them for not wanting to associate with all the stuff from TNG and on, but I think you could get goodwill if you went "Yeah we're assuming everything is fresh; many of your favorites will likely appear if we have a good story, but you shouldn't assume anything you didn't see on the screen is true just because it was in an episode in 1993."
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Jan 23, 2018 21:55
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Tighclops posted:The main reason anyone even cares about the show is because it's Star Trek and there hasn't been any new Trek in a long time. Otherwise it's a hilariously lovely "prestige" not-cable drama about as deeply written as a 13 year old's goth poetry You're wrong and you're talking bollocks.
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Jan 23, 2018 21:56
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If you can't tell a good story in continuity, that's fine but then don't make a huge deal about how you are in continuity! Make it a reboot or an alternate universe or a wholly different show, or at minimum just don't talk about it at all. People running DISCO have talked about it. They have claimed it's in continuity. That's the main reason why it matters.
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Jan 23, 2018 22:05
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It's frustrating that JJTrek basically gave them the perfect excuse to do whatever they want and they said "nah we're gonna call it a prequel to Kirk & Spock, specifically the TOS version of Kirk & Spock" anyway. I mean. It doesn't REALLY stop them from doing much if they really wanted to. It's just irksome.
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Jan 23, 2018 22:10
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Nessus posted:I think continuity should be sacrificed for the sake of a better story but I do not think that it is somehow inherently valuable to throw it overboard. Like, continuity should never be more than a guide for the waveform of the story rather than shackles. I don't think a story should be sacrificed to satisfy every little continuity thing, but I really resent the fact that Discovery has pretty much written off pre-TNG Trek completely. I get that it's seen as "dated", and that's fine. But I just don't see the point in having all these years of building up a universe just to jettison it when new shows come around.
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Jan 23, 2018 22:14
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Because jettisoning is what you do with dead weight.
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Jan 23, 2018 22:16
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Then why not jettison the whole franchise and sell a new show?
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Jan 23, 2018 22:21
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skasion posted:Then why not jettison the whole franchise and sell a new show? because then you have to make an original IP instead of making money off creative bankruptcy. There's no point in originality when you can point at something beloved and say "THAT'S SO STUPID" and people eat it up and even join in saying that the beloved thing is stupid and worthless. Star Trek is not the first to undergo this.
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Jan 23, 2018 22:27
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HIJK posted:because then you have to make an original IP instead of making money off creative bankruptcy. There's no point in originality when you can point at something beloved and say "THAT'S SO STUPID" and people eat it up and even join in saying that the beloved thing is stupid and worthless. Ding ding
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Jan 23, 2018 22:28
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I think it doesn't matter if the show uses or doesn't use continuity if whatever it does is boring and stupid anyway The whole fact that we're even having this discussion about canon is a marketing tactic, and it works. I wouldn't bother leaving STD on in the background on TV on sundays if it weren't in some way connected with that other stuff I liked and I'm continuously nonplussed by it e:fb by somebody more articulate than I am again aww motherfuck
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Jan 23, 2018 22:29
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